The Big Picture: Tropes vs. MovieBob

[Comando96]

Kistarter, man. One of the greatest tools for exploitation the internet has ever seen.

I'll just remind you, Kickstarter is competing with pornography (pissed off partner) and sexual abuse videos... and little children getting sexually exploited infront of a camera...

You will find that like violence, the internet offers many means for its own end. Kickstarter being... fairly small fry. Expensive but not human life destroying.

 

[corrosiveblood]

Gaming needs more Dr. Hasley/Cortana (Halo), Pre-Other M Samus Aran(Metroid), Bayonetta and Lghtning (FFXIII).

"Dr. Hasley/Cortana" - too smart also white and straight
"Pre-Other M Samus Aran" - too strong also white and straight
"Bayonetta and Lghtning" - too sexy also white and straight
Sorry, future pro-LGBT, pro-feminist gaming don't need them.

 

[MovieBob]

I think that rather than making loose generalisations, Bob should look at the studies on the effects of unrealistic body imagines for men in the media. You know, the thing Bob said totally doesnt matter:

http://news.ufl.edu/2010/02/17/muscle-2/
http://www.casapalmera.com/articles/manorexia-men-with-eating-disorders-on-the-rise/

 

[WanderingFool]

Also don't agree on many points he makes on this video.
His whole Kratos comparison just doesn't make sense.

Well, the thing about Bob is that he usually uses strawmanen arguements and hyperbole to make his points.

OT: Im not bothered by the documentary being made, and Im pretty appauled at the responses she got from people. But Im bothered by the amount of money she got, and what she will do with it.

 

[LadyRhian]

could it be the fact that some women really don't help that problem at all by simply, oh i dunno
PRESENTING THEMSELVES AS IF THAT IS ALL THEY HAVE TO OFFER

I've lost the link, but a woman in her 40's/50's was elected to a very high role in the american judicary on the merit of her abiliteis and knowledge.

An article on their being elected was awash with comments to he tune of 'what an ugly b****' and 'I ain't taking the opinion of anyone that bad looking seriously.'

yepp, and thats the other side of the coin which is also equally fucked up
women only presenting their appearence as their only worthy aspect
and men/society in general only looking at the appearence to be the one thing of value

You could make a point that after generations of women being judged solely or mostly on their looks, that some young women have internalized the message so much that they believe that their looks is all they have to offer and thus, try to make the most of that. I'm not saying it's right, but hey, some women think that looking good is all they can aspire to- because that's the only way to make themselves stand out. And does that inspire the "women are only there to be eyecandy" or is it an outgrowth of just that attitude?

 

[Christer]

Just to check. Are these the three arguments?

1: Portraying female video game character's bodies as unrealistically sexy is bad because women some times lose out on jobs because they don't look enough like Lara Croft. Also, nothing like this happens to men.

2: Portraying female video game characters as *only* unrealistically sexy is obviously bad because... it's unfair? Guys are empowered by tubby male characters in video games?

3: Portraying female video game character's bodies as unrealistically sexy is bad because heterosexual guys get off on it, and games are made for heterosexual guys. Portraying *male* video game character's bodies as unrealistically sexy is unproblematic because guys don't get off on it.

Provided I've understood his arguments, here's what I think:

1: I would like to see a source for that. I googled around a bit and couldn't find any clear study showing that this is a bigger problem for women than for men. It's different, sure. Women face discrimination based on weight, while men face it based on height. I also don't see a link between video games and this kind of discrimination.

2: I don't really feel like disagreeing with this. Actually, I'd love to see more body types in video games.

3: I would say that both are problematic, for reasons that have more to do with expectations and body image -- for the person playing the games, and their views on others. In and of itself, don't see anything wrong with getting off on characters in video games.

 

[CAPTCHA]

Kistarter, man. One of the greatest tools for exploitation the internet has ever seen.

I'll just remind you, Kickstarter is competing with pornography (pissed off partner) and sexual abuse videos... and little children getting sexually exploited infront of a camera...

You will find that like violence, the internet offers many means for its own end. Kickstarter being... fairly small fry. Expensive but not human life destroying.

Fair enough, I was being a bit hyperbolic. Kickstarter is probably lagging somewhere in the region of daytime TV phone-in quizes and lottery tickets in terms of explotation.

 

[Fusioncode9]

I don't care that she's making these videos, I care that she asked money for them. Plenty of people have done these kind of videos for free, but she needed 6,000$ to do them. And thanks to the internet she now has over150,000$ to put in her pocket. Wonderful job guys, no I'm sure she'll spend every cent of that on the tropes videos.

It really irks me that you earn as much money as you do. I don't think you deserve that much, and even though that doesn't impact me in the slightest I am still going to complain about it.

Thanks but at least I EARNED it. I didn't go begging on the internet to make a few internet videos which I could have easily done for free like so many others have.

 

[Ramzal]

I guess everyone forgot that video games are for fun, and to not see Joe or Sally McNormalGuy at every turn. I find big breasted super thin women in video games more funny than anything. Besides if there is a single woman---if you exist from this explanation and I hope you don't---and you feel like no one likes you because you have shoulder length brown hair with a B cup and you are overweight by 10 pounds, no one doesn't like you because Lara is thinner and has bigger breasts, they don't like you because you have self confidence issues. If a video game is enough to bring down women to an objectified level and feel less than they are worth, then women need to get more self confidence and not let imaginary people destroy their lives.

 

[Blade_125]

I don't care that she's making these videos, I care that she asked money for them. Plenty of people have done these kind of videos for free, but she needed 6,000$ to do them. And thanks to the internet she now has over150,000$ to put in her pocket. Wonderful job guys, no I'm sure she'll spend every cent of that on the tropes videos.

It really irks me that you earn as much money as you do. I don't think you deserve that much, and even though that doesn't impact me in the slightest I am still going to complain about it.

LOL

.... Earn....... Priceless.

OT: You're incredibly naive if you don't think men aren't judged on their appearance in the workplace. We may not be expected to look like Kratos but the ideal body image for a male is just as unhealthy as it is for a female.

Man I should not be reading this at work. It's hard to to laugh at some of these arguments.

Taking one word out to try and ruin my satire. How horrible of you

And I must be incredibly naive then. I've looked at the men in my job and either managment has a thing for for the portly gentlemen, or management didn't care about their looks so long as the job is done. TO be fair there are some women here who I wouldn't say will win a beauty pagent, but there are also far fewer women then men who work here.

Strangely that description fits every business I have worked at.

Simple fact is that far more men than women hold upper management positions. These are the people who hire and fire. I even have an example of a woman keeping her job because of her looks (which is sad because she was quite capable of keeping her job based on her skill), but that doesn't matter because it is one example. Stats I keep seeing in the news show women earn on average around 75% of men (the exact figure fluctuates but they are all in that range). I have never seen anything to suggest that men are prevented from advancing because of their looks. I'm at best average looking and it hasn't stopped me from advancing in my career. Maybe you have some stats that prove me wrong.

And no I haven't pulled stats on my own. I am sure everyone on ehre is skillful enough with google to look stuff up if they want any verification.

 

[Ukomba]

I'm not saying the internet isn't full of idiots who would totally do this kind of thing... but I'm wondering how many of them are real. In the same way EA created it's own religious protest against Dante's inferno to generate publicity, it wouldn't be hard to create a bunch of sexists to rant against you on Youtube.

It's created a shit ton of publicity for her and even plays into her narrative. I'd never heard of her or her series before this and was unlikely to hear about it if this incident hadn't happened

It's awfully convenient is all I'm saying.

 

[PotatoeMan]

I was thinking that it was a marketing strategy while I was watching this video. The demographic is largely male. There would be more female orientated characters if more women played but that seems to be a way off at the moment. That said isn?t that down to the overall idea/flow if the game, maybe it didn?t fit with the story. Would the game benefit from forcing characters into it to fill quotas?
It?s also important to remember that men are more visually reliant on sex appeal and if you want to see an example of ?girl porn? just look at the love interests in movies aimed at women.
Is the perfect guy image portrayed in media aimed at women any less damaging than the perfect woman image portrayed in media aimed at men? Is it damaging to remove ?unrealistic? images of women from media under the guise that it?s damaging the confidence of women? Won?t they just be realise this anyway as people are attracted to attractive people.

 

[Littaly]

I've actually used the "it's not a gender specific issue, everyone is made to look prettier in games" argument in the past. No...

The premise of her series isn't inherently flawed just because there's also a related issue that she hasn't mentioned.

I didn't say it was, because I don't think it is.

Not sure if that's what you thought I said, just wanna set the record straight in case it was ^^

 

[PunkRex]

Once again I find myself kind of torn, both sides seem to be JUST as loud and obnoxious as each other. Its like the way both sides of the Mass Effect ending just completely ignored or looked down on the other side while the few actually making a good bloody argument were overshadowed.

Some people are dicks, im not surprised some reacted like they did, their dicks, but why so many have a problem with a women who does this sort of media study just looking at tropes in games, WHICH ARE THERE, seems so pathetic. However, why she needs SOOOOOOOOOOOOO much bloody money dispite the resources she already has seems greedy, people do this sort of thing every day for free afterall...

 

[Draconalis]

Nice boobs are great, but have no real bearing on combat ability.

This is completely and utterly untrue.

The bigger the breasts thee more hampered their ability to use a bow. Bigger decreases combat ability.

 

[Sol_HSA]

Reading through these comments, it's as if some people didn't even watch the video..