The Big Picture: With Great Power

[Broderick]

I am not a fan of the lady, but the amount of vitriol she received was horrific. I do not see how pointing this out suddenly makes his whole video worthless when that was part of the point he was making. He was saying that we, as a collective(not individual) have the power to change what is socially acceptable within society today. Whether that is true for the whole of society(as he seems to suggest) is yet to be seen, but within the gaming community it rings true.

By choosing to block and shun people on games who exhibit nasty behavior(rage issues, unnecessary swearing, racism/sexism and downright asshattery) we send a message to those people, and that message is saying that we do not want to associate with them. One person doing this on their own has little effect, however, doing this en mass as a collective has the potential to make a substantial difference.

I dare anyone to read all of the quotes and tell me that was "horrific". I read one of her posts and got more criticisms on there that said she didn't need to do this than "Tits or GTFO" or "You're a stupid ***** for doing a kickstarter on video games!"

It's like she gets a "get away from trolls free" card because she's a woman. Show me how all of those people didn't have speech and an argument. The information is lost and the only reason she HAD an open discussion was to make money off of people.

And again... Bob is not a moral guardian. When he goes on this tangent, he makes himself into a larger hypocrite who doesn't like expressed opinions. No one's blocking or exhibiting "bad" behavior. They just don't like it when they're mislead by people that don't lead from the front. And Bob is just as bad at this as anyone.

I never said that he was a moral guardian, I just said that the specific part of his point rang true. We should not treat people like people treated sark regardless of whether they were trolls or not. Frankly, I do not see why trolls get a free pass at being assholes just because "it was for the lulz". I do not agree with sark, and I believe her methodology is flawed, but she did not deserve those kinds of comments, trolling or not. I would not care if she is black, white, gay, women, man, or a hermaphrodite, NO ONE deserves to have comments like that pointed at them, troll or not, empty threat or not.

If people have a problem with sark, then they should discuss it in a formal manner like it is done sometimes here on the escapist(your mileage may vary depending on the thread and people involved). Take those criticisms, and make them known everywhere you can to help educate people elsewhere.

 

[Gindil]

So someone says "i hope u get raped" to you on the internet, you are 100% sure it has no possibility of happening, it's nothing more than some angry kid who disagrees with your stuff and can't formulate a proper argument - and so you take a screenshot of that comment, go to the media and begin the river of fake tears crying "Look at this! This is how EVERYONE in the world has responded to me, they all...they all...*sob* hate me! I am...so hurt! *sob*.

Bam $160,000 granted. A grand total of two videos made in a span of 14 months.

Sorry but that is repulsive.

I don't want to go to far into this because this discussion isn't about Anita, but firstly I think she was right to call them out like, whatever her intentions were, a reaction like is unacceptable and needs to shown up and addressed. Secondly, she didn't ask for $160 000 she only asked for $6 000 and how the community responded is not her responsibility. I agree that the likelihood of her actually getting raped or assaulted probably isn't influenced much by these reactions, but threatening someone with rape is unacceptable under any circumstances and I certainly wouldn't say she has done anything morally wrong, never mind more morally unacceptable than rape threats. Also, the Sarkeesian detractors are obviously welcome to disagree with the points she puts forward, but can we stop with all this straw man nonsense that so many of you seem determined to use against her, it honestly only detracts from your argument.


I don't have time to watch those videos right now, so I'll respond to them a bit later today, but I don't see how she was somehow obliged not to react to people who had treated her like that.

She initiated the conflict then elevated the situation to make money. That's entirely different than somehow the gamer community reacted to a Kickstarter. It's her creating a row to have people donate to her and it's her manipulating people for money.

No, you've missed my point then. This isn't about Sarkeesian, as much as people seem to be determined to make it so.

No, it's entirely about her and her actions. And that's what reprehensible. She got money for a cause that is misguided and shows off her ignorance of storytelling and very little, if any, qualitative or quantitative data that proves that there's sexism in games.

Whether her actions were just or not doesn't change the reaction she received.

When your actions cause the conflict that creates the reaction. It's like Newtons Second Law of Physics. "For every action, there is an equal but opposite reaction."

Even if you are entirely right and she is just some money grubber, the reaction was unacceptable.

And yet... I haven't seen this coordinated attack, nor have I seen anything other than a few negative criticisms. What are you trying to hide when the comments show that VERY FEW people were overly negative? And why are you hiding behind the most extreme examples when most of the examples just said "This doesn't really need to be done?" I never get that... It's like people getting low comment posts on Escapist. It happens. So do crazy posts calling people bad names. You deal with it and move on. She just got money from it.

If there had been no threats of violence or such and just a pure discussion on the topic, I would have just sat back and watched with interest, but that's certainly not what happened.

And when has Anita engaged critic or supporter alike? She's hiding behind her ivory tower while ignoring criticism and comments and a bad argument.

I also never once claimed that she got only death and rape threats and I would prefer it if you didn't put words in my mouth, but she did get them, and a lot of them.

As I stated above... I looked at her screenshots. The comments weren't filled with rape and death threats and she selectively edited them to show the worst while ignoring the rest. That's someone willing to lie to you and prepackage hurtful comments to boost her argument. You really want to believe someone like that?

Also again, pointing that the culture treats other people this awfully only aids my point of the terrible state it is in right now.

Funny... Last I checked, the "gaming culture" is pretty inclusive and we've seen domestic violence go down as game consumption go up. So saying that the culture treats people pretty awfully really needs to be quantified before you can use that against me.

 

[Gindil]

I never said that he was a moral guardian, I just said that the specific part of his point rang true. We should not treat people like people treated sark regardless of whether they were trolls or not. Frankly, I do not see why trolls get a free pass at being assholes just because "it was for the lulz". I do not agree with sark, and I believe her methodology is flawed, but she did not deserve those kinds of comments, trolling or not. I would not care if she is black, white, gay, women, man, or a hermaphrodite, NO ONE deserves to have comments like that pointed at them, troll or not, empty threat or not.

If people have a problem with sark, then they should discuss it in a formal manner like it is done sometimes here on the escapist(your mileage may vary depending on the thread and people involved). Take those criticisms, and make them known everywhere you can to help educate people elsewhere.

Anita initiated the issue. From the looks, she spammed the Kickstarter in /v/ which tells me she wanted to rile up that community against her to use them to make her money.

And no, trolls are gonna troll. There's plenty of stories about human flesh engines, or people to go on the attack against people for XYZ reason. If you ever want to read about Aaron Burr pissing off Anonymous, that's one example. Going after "hackers" for searching up government conspiracies is another. In this regard, you get these targets to go after someone and manipulate them.

Further, she's said that she was selectively editing those comments. We can't tell if that was 1% of the comments, 10% or just a few dedicated people that actually hated her. I actually looked at some of the people that were on the screenshots. Some were game designers, others were TF2 fans. They commented and moved on. She used this as part of a package to the press to get them to finance her movement.

The point is that all she did was dismiss ALL criticism as "trolling" while showing you the worst and telling people mean things to cause a reaction.

Why should I believe someone like that is going to treat a topic like DiD fairly if they can't be trusted to have open commentary?

 

[Broderick]

I am not a fan of the lady, but the amount of vitriol she received was horrific. I do not see how pointing this out suddenly makes his whole video worthless when that was part of the point he was making. He was saying that we, as a collective(not individual) have the power to change what is socially acceptable within society today. Whether that is true for the whole of society(as he seems to suggest) is yet to be seen, but within the gaming community it rings true.

By choosing to block and shun people on games who exhibit nasty behavior(rage issues, unnecessary swearing, racism/sexism and downright asshattery) we send a message to those people, and that message is saying that we do not want to associate with them. One person doing this on their own has little effect, however, doing this en mass as a collective has the potential to make a substantial difference.

He was not pointing out the amount of attacks she recieved (and i agree there should have been no unonstructive attacks liek that, though she does deserve quite a lot of criticism), he was pretty much holding her up as an example of "doing what we all should", which makes him glorifying her as oppsed to the rest of geekdom.
Yes, we as a colelctive have the power to change things. but he does not seem to realize that "geeks" are no longer a single community, but are consistent of two large communities, the geeks that were geeks before it was cool, and geeks that are doing it jsut because its cool, and they fight eachother. what is worse, is we got first group growing up in the world where second group is mainstream and they are torn between the two groups. essentialy we as a collective first of all need to be a collective to have the power. we dont. just because you won one battle does not mean the war is over.
we ALREADY DO shun people who exhibit nasty behaviuos. thing is, most of them come from the second group - those who pretend to be nerds just because it is cool. very few of those nasty behaviuos come from the nerds that are nerds who were nerds before this whole thing blwe up. essentially he is attacking a wrong part of community.
we already tried to send a message that we do not want to be associated with them. remember the "fake girl gamer" and its fallout? of course that was more directed at females then, but same applies to fake make gamer. gender is not the important part, its the "Fake" part thats important here. its jsut that it was easier spotted in a girl because the fake boy gamers have already managed to infiltrate into the mainstream gamer.
if we continue to wkr as a community we will end up where we started - a small but tight community that is shun for being different. because those we shun away, those people who do this nasty things, will be the majority that dictate what is different. they always were. we tried staying away. didnt work. we are trying to embrace them. clearly does not work either, ergo the existence of this video.

wow this ended up longer than i expected.

Indeed, it is true that quite a few of us do shun those unruly folks, however I think it needs to be done on a larger scale. I do not think it is people who are in the geek crowd "trying to be cool" that are the problem, I think it is people with anger issues, just plain assholes, and the kids on places like Xbox live that are being taught that that kind of behavior is an okay reaction. I think education would help enlighten some of these individuals, however, many of them may be too far gone to take advice, especially from a stranger.

I think this "Fake" vs "real" gamer sets up a no true Scotsman fallacy. Gamers and geeks, like all people, come from many different backgrounds. Some geeks will be assholes, while others will be nice. Some will be deceptive, while others not. People are people, and regardless of the background of these people, there will always be different kinds in all "cliques"; there will be asshole jocks, and nice ones, asshole geeks, nice ones. Maybe some are just having a bad day and you caught them at the wrong time, perhaps they are just venting the only way they know how. People are not so cut and dry as some would like to think. I would like to think that just shunning would work as suggested in my previous post, but that only band aids the problem. There needs to be a fundamental change in these people for the "wound" to fully heal. Perhaps many of the problems cannot be solves by strangers, but I think reaching out and trying to help is the first step.

 

[Broderick]

I never said that he was a moral guardian, I just said that the specific part of his point rang true. We should not treat people like people treated sark regardless of whether they were trolls or not. Frankly, I do not see why trolls get a free pass at being assholes just because "it was for the lulz". I do not agree with sark, and I believe her methodology is flawed, but she did not deserve those kinds of comments, trolling or not. I would not care if she is black, white, gay, women, man, or a hermaphrodite, NO ONE deserves to have comments like that pointed at them, troll or not, empty threat or not.

If people have a problem with sark, then they should discuss it in a formal manner like it is done sometimes here on the escapist(your mileage may vary depending on the thread and people involved). Take those criticisms, and make them known everywhere you can to help educate people elsewhere.

Anita initiated the issue. From the looks, she spammed the Kickstarter in /v/ which tells me she wanted to rile up that community against her to use them to make her money.

And no, trolls are gonna troll. There's plenty of stories about human flesh engines, or people to go on the attack against people for XYZ reason. If you ever want to read about Aaron Burr pissing off Anonymous, that's one example. Going after "hackers" for searching up government conspiracies is another. In this regard, you get these targets to go after someone and manipulate them.

Further, she's said that she was selectively editing those comments. We can't tell if that was 1% of the comments, 10% or just a few dedicated people that actually hated her. I actually looked at some of the people that were on the screenshots. Some were game designers, others were TF2 fans. They commented and moved on. She used this as part of a package to the press to get them to finance her movement.

The point is that all she did was dismiss ALL criticism as "trolling" while showing you the worst and telling people mean things to cause a reaction.

Why should I believe someone like that is going to treat a topic like DiD fairly if they can't be trusted to have open commentary?

Once again, I am not talking about her videos, only the comments she received. I already covered that "trolls are gonna troll", however it is impossible to say how many of those negative comments were honest asshattery, or just trolls doing their thing. We do not know if it was her on /v/, or if it was just another troll in her name trying to kick the hornets nest. I am not sure why you are keep going on about her videos and methodology, I already said I agree with you. All I am saying is that regardless of trolls, she should not have received those comments in the first place, and the fact that trolls even exist shows there is already a problem.

I have a huge problem with her videos, just as you do. I wish she would do more research beyond cherry picking examples out of context for the videos sake. I am hoping for improvement, but with the way these are going, I am unsure if it is going to happen.

 

[Gindil]

I never said that he was a moral guardian, I just said that the specific part of his point rang true. We should not treat people like people treated sark regardless of whether they were trolls or not. Frankly, I do not see why trolls get a free pass at being assholes just because "it was for the lulz". I do not agree with sark, and I believe her methodology is flawed, but she did not deserve those kinds of comments, trolling or not. I would not care if she is black, white, gay, women, man, or a hermaphrodite, NO ONE deserves to have comments like that pointed at them, troll or not, empty threat or not.

If people have a problem with sark, then they should discuss it in a formal manner like it is done sometimes here on the escapist(your mileage may vary depending on the thread and people involved). Take those criticisms, and make them known everywhere you can to help educate people elsewhere.

Anita initiated the issue. From the looks, she spammed the Kickstarter in /v/ which tells me she wanted to rile up that community against her to use them to make her money.

And no, trolls are gonna troll. There's plenty of stories about human flesh engines, or people to go on the attack against people for XYZ reason. If you ever want to read about Aaron Burr pissing off Anonymous, that's one example. Going after "hackers" for searching up government conspiracies is another. In this regard, you get these targets to go after someone and manipulate them.

Further, she's said that she was selectively editing those comments. We can't tell if that was 1% of the comments, 10% or just a few dedicated people that actually hated her. I actually looked at some of the people that were on the screenshots. Some were game designers, others were TF2 fans. They commented and moved on. She used this as part of a package to the press to get them to finance her movement.

The point is that all she did was dismiss ALL criticism as "trolling" while showing you the worst and telling people mean things to cause a reaction.

Why should I believe someone like that is going to treat a topic like DiD fairly if they can't be trusted to have open commentary?

Once again, I am not talking about her videos, only the comments she received. I already covered that "trolls are gonna troll", however it is impossible to say how many of those negative comments were honest asshattery, or just trolls doing their thing. We do not know if it was her on /v/, or if it was just another troll in her name trying to kick the hornets nest. I am not sure why you are keep going on about her videos and methodology, I already said I agree with you. All I am saying is that regardless of trolls, she should not have received those comments in the first place, and the fact that trolls even exist shows there is already a problem.

I have a huge problem with her videos, just as you do. I wish she would do more research beyond cherry picking examples out of context for the videos sake. I am hoping for improvement, but with the way these are going, I am unsure if it is going to happen.

Uhm... All I was focused on was the comments. I didn't really say much of anything about the videos other than "Yeah, pretty crappy". But dismissing criticism as trolling is pretty bad.

 

[leviadragon99]

Those "homophobic, sexist, trolls" you rail against are just that-- trolls. They aren't going away, ever, no matter how much mainstreaming is done.

So man the fuck up and deal with it.

And what do you care anyway? You, by your own admission, don't play games online, outsider.

He didn't say trolls, you did. Unless you're quoting someone else in this thread and forgot to actually quote them.

No, we shouldn't have to deal with that crap, and there are ways to disown the trolls, to let them know they're not welcome in the community, to refuse to play with them, to ban them from forums, they'll still exist, but they won't be among us if we just put a little freaking effort in to calling them out.

Oh, and nice job being open-minded there about people that don't play games online, wanker...

I'm used to posting on TVtropes. If I could, "outsider" would have been a link to "Joking Mode" but whatev's.

You do realize the only way to make trolls go away is to just ignore them right? It's kind of ironic that your solution to discrimination is MORE discrimination, when a FUCKING MUTE BUTTON EXISTS.

Honestly, am I the only one who knows that there is a way to silence players you don't like? Am I the only one who looks in the goddamned options menu, and checks to see what my voice chat settings are?

Why has it gotten to the point where individual initiative has taken a back seat to molly coddling thin-skinned whiners, who can't handle the fact that people say mean things on the internet?

Given the tone of the rest of your commentary, the notion that you were joking about the "outsider" thing was in no way readily apparent.

And ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away, it just hides from it while the problem continues to fester.

Yeah, we all know about the mute button and use it, but that hasn't done anything to stop people spewing that hatred, hasn't stopped them from putting off people playing for the first time who don't yet know that apparently the only way to enjoy a game online is to mute people left, right and center, and it doesn't stop people spewing hatred in text chat or forums, your solution is only a bandaid for one manifestation of the problem.

And again, it is totally okay to discriminate against people who by their ACTIONS have proven themselves hateful, petty, infantile or otherwise not good company, if a kid goes around punching other kids in daycare then they get sent to time out, we don't tell the parents that they'll just have to provide their kids body armour or hand-to-hand combat training.

We shouldn't have to put up with such shit is the thing, it is not being thin-skinned to point at a relentlessly racist, sexist, homophobic person and say "you're a douchenozzle, GTFO." We don't put up with such shit in our real life social circles or in real world sports, so again, why should we put up with it in videogames? Why should we prove we can endure or ignore it endlessly?

 

[grigjd3]

I appreciate the sentiment here but I think there's fundamental misunderstanding about what happened. Geekdom didn't grow. Geeks got really rich and asshats decided to cater to them. There's a difference.

 

[Broderick]

I never said that he was a moral guardian, I just said that the specific part of his point rang true. We should not treat people like people treated sark regardless of whether they were trolls or not. Frankly, I do not see why trolls get a free pass at being assholes just because "it was for the lulz". I do not agree with sark, and I believe her methodology is flawed, but she did not deserve those kinds of comments, trolling or not. I would not care if she is black, white, gay, women, man, or a hermaphrodite, NO ONE deserves to have comments like that pointed at them, troll or not, empty threat or not.

If people have a problem with sark, then they should discuss it in a formal manner like it is done sometimes here on the escapist(your mileage may vary depending on the thread and people involved). Take those criticisms, and make them known everywhere you can to help educate people elsewhere.

Anita initiated the issue. From the looks, she spammed the Kickstarter in /v/ which tells me she wanted to rile up that community against her to use them to make her money.

And no, trolls are gonna troll. There's plenty of stories about human flesh engines, or people to go on the attack against people for XYZ reason. If you ever want to read about Aaron Burr pissing off Anonymous, that's one example. Going after "hackers" for searching up government conspiracies is another. In this regard, you get these targets to go after someone and manipulate them.

Further, she's said that she was selectively editing those comments. We can't tell if that was 1% of the comments, 10% or just a few dedicated people that actually hated her. I actually looked at some of the people that were on the screenshots. Some were game designers, others were TF2 fans. They commented and moved on. She used this as part of a package to the press to get them to finance her movement.

The point is that all she did was dismiss ALL criticism as "trolling" while showing you the worst and telling people mean things to cause a reaction.

Why should I believe someone like that is going to treat a topic like DiD fairly if they can't be trusted to have open commentary?

Once again, I am not talking about her videos, only the comments she received. I already covered that "trolls are gonna troll", however it is impossible to say how many of those negative comments were honest asshattery, or just trolls doing their thing. We do not know if it was her on /v/, or if it was just another troll in her name trying to kick the hornets nest. I am not sure why you are keep going on about her videos and methodology, I already said I agree with you. All I am saying is that regardless of trolls, she should not have received those comments in the first place, and the fact that trolls even exist shows there is already a problem.

I have a huge problem with her videos, just as you do. I wish she would do more research beyond cherry picking examples out of context for the videos sake. I am hoping for improvement, but with the way these are going, I am unsure if it is going to happen.

Uhm... All I was focused on was the comments. I didn't really say much of anything about the videos other than "Yeah, pretty crappy". But dismissing criticism as trolling is pretty bad.

Sorry i was quite tired when I wrote the comment back. The criticism of her videos is unfortunately not getting through due to comment moderation by her which is quite bad for a person supposedly wishing to enlighten the general public about her subject material.

I have no idea if she actually wishes to do what she said she is setting out to do, or just make money, but the problem I have is that she does not seem to have much quality improvement in this video series compared to the ones she usually did on youtube. If she truly wishes to improve her of gaming and the use of tropes, she should be accepting our criticism with open arms.

 

[Broderick]

I think this "Fake" vs "real" gamer sets up a no true Scotsman fallacy.

I am going to disagree here.

You can make a case that "no true Scotsman" applies, but I think you can also make the case for mainstream appropriating elements of 'geek' culture. Mainstream does this to sub-cultures; I don't think it's even debatable. Geek went from geek = weird/useless/unskilled to Geek = tech/science, even when it hasn't been true, and tech/science = teh big moneyz these days.

Take perceived esoteric (and very valuable) knowledge, add a strong financial incentive, sprinkle in some entertainment ... why *wouldn't* the jock of yesteryear want to identify, at least in some respect, as a 'geek'? Particularly now that all he/she has to do is plug n' play a con...err, make some trivial effort.

>.>

<.<

As far as 'geek girls', as a geek (since I had the then unflattering term shouted at me more than once back in the day) I don't know why I would ever even begin to think this was a problem, even if it's just models and porn stars slumming to get some exposure.

Edit: (so many posters getting me confused on who I talked to and didnt heh)I would say that I still think he set up a no true Scotsman with the previous comments, but I agree that the mainstream media does tend to absorb elements from subcultures to capitalize on them. I think a good example of this is to just look at anything spat out by hot topic. I mean hell, I remember back in high school when the whole "emo" subculture hit my school, and nearly every one of them had something from Invader Zim or The Nightmare Before Christmas, a movie that came out a decade or so ago(at the time) and show that had come out about 5 years prior to my high school years. I am not going to call anyone a poser, or anything like that, but did they only start wearing that stuff to be part of the "culture"? Did they actually enjoy the shows, and if so, why didn't they wear stuff like that before the subculture became popular? Was there just not enough stores that had merchandise in stock? There a lot of factors there, but it is unfortunate that people would only want to check something out just because it is popular at the moment.

The whole "geek girls" thing was mostly just a rant on my part, as many people seem to think they are a threat. It annoys me, so sorry if it seemed I attributed that mindset to you or others.

 

[Silent Protagonist]

I was with Bob for the first part of the video. I am really sick of the victim card that is played by large sections of "geek culture" for lack of a better descriptor. I drives me nuts how often "geek/nerd culture" is not defined by interest and genuine enjoyment of escapism found commonly in games, movies,and whatever else but by the notion of being bullied and cast out because you like something that isn't traditionally "cool" and that is garbage. Your interests have been the mainstream for nearly two decades now, get over yourself.
Turns out some people are assholes, and you being bullied, rejected, or otherwise picked on is a result of interaction with one or more assholes, not society hating the things you like. The feeling of a moral high ground that comes with the persecution, delusional or otherwise, can be highly addictive. This is true outside of "geek culture" as well.

Geek culture can be just as exclusionary as anything in the mainstream. You can see it on this very thread. "But, But we're not mainstream. Sure the mainstream may like many of the things we like but totally not as much.Big Bang theory is BAD. No, until a girl rejects you because you have played a video game it's totally not geek culture." I generally like to consider myself above such sarcastic strawmaning but this attitude just really rubs me the wrong way. You see it all the time in the "culture" with people trying to out-nerd each other. If you don't pass whatever their particular level of nerdyness is, then you are just a lousy mainstream poser casual. The sexism and racism you can come across is largely just an extension of that. Again, not an issue unique to geek culture, but common in many sub-cultures.

But then Bob went a little wacko. If you need to know where see "white hetero cis males" or whatever the usual collection of adjectives is. Then it moved from a geek culture thing very appropriate for this site to empty left wing liberal soap boxing. If this forum is any indication there are a plenty of transgendered, non-hetero, non-male, and non-white people in gaming. Gaming and Geek culture does not need to go out of its way to cater and pander to specific demographics based on their race, gender, or orientation. We're not politicians. POLITICAL ZING! There was no secret shadow meeting were the major players in "geek culture" got together and said "OK so we only want white hetero cis males interested in and buying our stuff. We will only make stuff that appeals to them. Screw all other races, orientations and genders." People just made what they wanted to or were passionate about or, at the very least, thought would make money. The reason that particular demographic is/was dominate in the culture is that they were interested in the stuff they made and had disposable income they were willing to spend on it, possibly due INDIRECTLY from sexist and/or racist notions in society at large. Also, I don't really know what people want from the LGBT community. Non-hetero and/or transgendered people are a pretty small minority and will likely not make up a very large portion of any community because they do not make up a very large portion of the larger population. Do people want a disproportionately large percentage of gamers to be LGBT? I have always had a little difficulty understanding the "We need to get more gays interested in X" train of thought that seems to coincide with a lot of the talk for LGBT acceptance.

 

[karkashan]

Geez, Bob, if I wanted a left-wing propaganda speech I would just watch Obama monologue about something while counting the white hairs on his head (don't ask, I'm weird like that).

 

[shadowuser10141]

Im all for getting rid of dummies on the internet, and being more accepting, BUT
I disagree on one major thing, Anita Sarkesian=A sexist moron

I'm sorry but she doesn't make ANY legitimate points in any of her videos, if she actually talked about gaming tropes in a FAIR and Balanced manner, focusing not only on the problems but also women in games that are really well portrayed, I would support her somewhat, the that she is now...

Just another feminist whining about how gamers are so evil...

Bob argues that because a sexism problem exists we should automatically accept Anita's arguments.
That's like accepting Al Sharpton's arguments just because a racism problem still exists.

We need to address the sexism problem but feminism should stay in the lecture rooms and not have the kind of loud voice it has in popular culture.

 

[shadowuser10141]

The whole "geek girls" thing was mostly just a rant on my part, as many people seem to think they are a threat. It annoys me, so sorry if it seemed I attributed that mindset to you or others.

The whole fake g4m3r gurl thing is mainly to do with attention whoring.
Attention whores can be male or female. A lot of people myself included don't like attention whores.

Girls who play games = no problem whatsoever.
Twitch TV attention whores with cleavage on display in order to get guys to donate to support their awful WoW streams = I dislike them. Not saying they can't do it.

There's a lot of hypocrisy with people who defend them. They are the same people who want to ban booth babes, sexy characters and want more plus-size protagonists.

 

[xaszatm]

Nobody wants to be racist. That's why telling people to be less racist (and leaving it at that) isn't going to do anything.

I don't know what to tell you, dude. He can't identify your racist behaviors for you, and he can't change them for you. If you aren't willing to examine yourself honestly and discover your own areas that need improvement, then I cannot imagine anything Mr. Chipman could say or do that would change anything.

"Be a better person"
"That's pretty vague, any specifics I should work on?"
"You figure it out"
"Ok I'm going to ignore you now"
"You must be against self improvement"

Well he could've linked to them then.

They're all in the same category as the rest of his the Big Picture videos. It's not terribly taxing to find them.

Screw that. Not my job to comb through his videos looking for examples to suit his point.

Edit: If he has a point to make he should make it.

Okay, if it is REALLY THAT HARD for you to type a short phrase on Google, I'LL try and give some examples. Now remember, I don't know you specifically so my answers will be a bit more broad, but I'll try my best.

1. Examples from moviebob.

Seriously, this shouldn't be hard at all as you are watching his show BUT...

Spoiler: The Big Picture

Is Django racist?
Skin Deep
Fair Game
Skin Deeper
Not Okay
Gender Games
Correctitude

Okay, so all those up there discuss various topics of bias and its effects on society. Now, as for the question on what to do. Moviebob doesn't make one on the Big Picture because he did make one a while back.


Now granted, it is a bit outdated and if you want to skip the video, everything related to social stuff can be found in the last third of the video.

Now if that isn't enough, then...

2. The example of acts of racism

Calling random strangers extremely offensive names is the most common example. Now, I am taking a leap of faith that you understand what I mean by extremely offensive. Like when Person A calls Person B a racial offensive term for any race (be it Black, White, Asian) or any gender (Male, Female, Trans, Cis) or any sexuality (straight or LGBT) and implying that because they are any of these things is the reason why the suck.

And while you might to similar things to friends, random internet strangers don't know you. They don't know you're joking or just playing around. As such, they can and, if you persist, eventually will find what you say extremely offensive. For instance, I have friends who endlessly make fun of my Asian heritage. But, as they are my friends, I know that it is all in good fun. I don't know random strangers on the internet. I don't know if someone is insulting my race as a joke or if they truly believe it. I've met some horribly racist people and they used there racism as an excuse to do horrible things. I will get defensive if a random stranger starts trowing out racist comments as a result.

Okay I have linked videos and have given an example, is this still too vague?

 

[thewatergamer]

Im all for getting rid of dummies on the internet, and being more accepting, BUT
I disagree on one major thing, Anita Sarkesian=A sexist moron

I'm sorry but she doesn't make ANY legitimate points in any of her videos, if she actually talked about gaming tropes in a FAIR and Balanced manner, focusing not only on the problems but also women in games that are really well portrayed, I would support her somewhat, the that she is now...

Just another feminist whining about how gamers are so evil...

Bob argues that because a sexism problem exists we should automatically accept Anita's arguments.
That's like accepting Al Sharpton's arguments just because a racism problem still exists.

We need to address the sexism problem but feminism should stay in the lecture rooms and not have the kind of loud voice it has in popular culture.

Couldn't have said it better myself

 

[Jennacide]

We deserved a better voice for the issues of sexual objectification of women in games and the over-use of certain tropes in games, while commenting on why it has become that way and when it's sometimes acceptable.

Well it doesn't really matter if you "deserved" someone better, Anita is the only one so far willing to invest the time and money so for that she's the face of feminism in video games. You don't have to like it but you pretty much need to accept that it's just the way things are.

Acceptance of a shitty situation is always the worst idea possible. And it's hard to argue that Anita put money into it, since she Kickstartered the funds for it. Additionally she's only famous BECAUSE of the idiotic backlash at her Kickstarter campaign.

We also have better points of view on the subjects that aren't total windbags, like Extra Credits did a great job addressing women in games without resorting to the nonsense Anita does. Shamefully though, they still get 1/10th of the attention she does, because she used the disasterous outcry against her as a venue of getting more attention.