the casual gamer demographic is ruining the indutrie

[tobyornottoby]

The casual movie goer is ruining the movie industry. X recent comedy was so low brow where as Y older movie had much more complex humour.

How is it possible to be a 'casual' movie-goer? All movies are movies, it just depends what type you like. I guess you could say comedies are "casual" and dramas are "hardcore," but you can't really compare people who watch movies to people who play video games.

Anyways, after trying to read your argument twice, and failing, I cut-and-pasted it into Microsoft Word and figured out the gist of it. Sir (I use this term very sparingly), I have to seriously doubt that you understand what a "casual" gamer is. Or a period, or a comma, so on, so forth. Most of us Escapists play video games. I wouldn't say everyone here is "hardcore," but I can virtually guarantee everyone has played some kind of video game during their life, whether it be Pong or Halo 3. Casual games are less complex games for a less hardcore demographic. Almost anyone can pick up a casual game and be average at it, but less so for a more "hardcore" videogame. Allow me to clarify. Five minutes ago, I was playing Unreal Tournament 3. In five more minutes, I'll probably be playing N+ on my PC. Admittedly, on Insane, the game isn't that easy. I've beaten N+ twice, and I just play it for kicks now. Most people could grab N+ and be O.K. at it, but not everyone, not even all gamers, can pick up UT3 and not die within the first five seconds on Insane.

Very simple

Hollywood = casual mainstream 'junk'
Arthouse = hardcore

 

[TsunamiWombat]

Speaking as a casual gamer, I would say that the problem is the same as making children's films or television shows. All of the really good ones appeal to both children and adults. When they try to specifically target a younger audience, they lose the adult audience and thus make an inferior product, a product that only has a very specific audience which it may not get. see: "Quest For Camelot

So it is with games. The best casual games appeal to the more hardcore players as well, at least as an in-between "real" game diversion. When developers try to specifically target the casual gaming audience, they tend to just dumb it down to the point that it appeals to nobody. Because, get this y'all, casual gamers are not stupid. They just don't devote long hours to playing games. So games with high learning curves, difficult controls, obtuse concepts, etc do not appeal. Neither does games that require a high-time commitment. We don't have that kind of time. That's why we're casual gamers.

But this does not mean we dislike a game with depth and complexity. In fact, if a game manages to appeal enough for us to sink extra time into it but it turns out to lack real depth, we feel just as cheated as the rabid hardcore gamer. It might take as a little longer to get there, but we probably feel even more cheated since our time is precious. A game without depth feels like a waste of time.

My point is, there are so many factors that goes into making a game and how a game appeals to an audience, that it's pure hubris on the developer's part to try to appeal to a specific audience, as if they really understand what will appeal to that audience. Spore, for instance, does not interest me. Neither does Sims. That either of these games has any popularity just proves that I'm not everybody. I'm just saying that regardless of the gameplay structure, neither one of those titles are what I wish to do with my time. So right there they don't get the entirety of the casual gaming market because I will not give them any money for those games. So, they have a smaller subset of the casual gaming market, because I can't be the only one who thinks Spore can go fuck itself. That Sims also appeals to the hardcore demographic is why it managed to be successful, and if Spore does not if the OP can be trusted, then it will most likely fail.

Quoted for Agreement. The most sublime pieces of art, film, and interactive entertainment transcend niche and genre. Take the Shrek films- made for kids, but full of downright filfthy humor if you knew what they were talking about "You think he's compensating for something? eh? Eh?".

However, I don't think you should count Spore out. Right now it's biggest hobble is the DRM thats pissing 'insiders' off; moving beyond that though the game COULD be made a great deal better over time due to it's highly modular setup. Expansion packs and patches, like the Sims, can broaden the gameplay signifigantly and don't you think they don't already have one in planning.

Remember Will Wright is EA's ***** at the end of the day, and thus he HAD to release the game when he had to release the game. But he can improve the game using expansion packs- and perhaps the next will include that underwater gameplay you wanted, or a more complex creature creator. I'm not trying to be a shill for Wright, I just think Spore is one of those games that will be made by it's expansion packs and community support, like Neverwinter Nights or The Sims 1/2.

 

[MurderousToaster]

Jeez. Took you long enough to figure that they were ruining the industry, didn't it?

 

[TsunamiWombat]

Actually, I suspect it's 12-14 year olds ruining the industry, not casual gamers...XBL A-holes anyone?

 

[Blind Punk Riot]

I was in Game the other day. I saw the usual kind of people, you know, Nerds and Geeks. But I saw something that shocked me!


There they were, a few by the wii area, a couple [literally a couple, he had a girlfriend, and she was hot!] over by the 360 area.
It was normal people. Not the people you'll meet online.

And I hated it.



Made me feel uncomfortable, like someone was going to jump me or something. Awkward.
But then I looked at a guy wearing a shirt buttoned all the way to the top, and he had it tucked into his jeans, which he wore crazy high, and he had these slip on shoes and white socks. He even had a bad moustache!

And the world was at peace again.

 

[Darkauthor81]

I don't think they're ruining the industry any more than any other niche market. The problem is hardcore gamers are so fickle. There's no telling if they're going to love a game, loath it, or just never notice it. So they go for the much easier to please casual gamer who just... wants to have fun like we all use to before we became Yahtzee level of jaded and cynical. If I want a hard core game there's plenty of brutal ones on the older systems I haven't played yet.

Super Ghouls and Ghosts anyone?

 

[ElArabDeMagnifico]

I believe the appropriate title is "The casual gamer is ruining the industry, for the hardcore gamer."

*see the Wii and all it's bloody shovelware, and lack of KIRBY!*

Also, I had this rant related to the subject, though it's a little long so I don't want to put it in a spoiler tag. It's not "wall of text" long but I don't want to de-rail the thread, so here is a LONG FRIGGIN LINK! [http://liquidlurker.com/gpf/index.php?action=viewblog;u=422;id=946]

EDIT: Ha, actually I remember Mark Rein saying that they deliberately fucked up UT3 for the console and casual crowd. Just a "side note" - I tried to find the link but no dice.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Two points here, people.

First of all, many people have mentioned that it just seems like culture is taking a turn for the worst, and that movies/music/video games aren't as good as they used to be. Everyone says this when they're in the moment, meaning that I bet in the 60s people said, "Boy, movies sure were better back in the 40s." The thing is, we're surrounded by all the crap being produced today in addition to all of the awesome that Hollywood/the music industry/Valve(or whomever you think is great) are making.

A lot, and I mean A LOT of shitty movies were made in the 60s. Think of how many action movies are made nowadays. You think that people in the 60s didn't watch action movies? They did, but so many of them are simply forgotten by time. The only ones any cares about anymore are the James Bond movies (more or less). In ten years, we will only remember the incredibly spectacular and the incredibly horrible games of today. Roughly 12 million different games were made for the NES. The average gamer can name about 6. Think about it.

Secondly, weren't we talking about this in another thread about three days ago?

 

[curlycrouton]

At the end of the day, games are still games. If you're angry at the state of gaming today, play some old classics. May I suggest Diablo 2 or Red Alert 2?

 

[Jimmyjames]

NOT TRUE

the casual game segment is a seperate market. If this market didn't exist, Spore would have never been made like it is now. And I'm not talking about complexity, I'm talking about scale.

Games are too expensive to make these days. Developers need the money from casual games if they want to continue making hardcore games.

Oh and too bad this is an intersting subject. Else I would only have said that a little punctuation wouldn't hurt

This person knows what he/she's talking about. I work at a very well known studio, and have seen first-hand how the development cycles of games have ballooned to an average of 3-4 years from last-gens' 1 1/2 - 2 1/2 years.

You're going to see lots more smaller downloadable games in the future and less of the event games.

I wouldn't say casual gaming has "ruined" the market, but rather change the landscape of the kind of stuff that will get made in the first place.

 

[xitel]

Casual Gaming has brought gaming closer to the mainstream. Just look at movies: originally, only a few people went, the rich folk and the like. But, when it became mainstream, everyone in the industry started making improvements like sound and color. I say, if we have to go through a period of okay games before we can get to the imporvements, I say we should be patient and stop whining about casual gamers.

 

[DannyDamage]

I've been saying this for years, but casual gaming to me is an FPS you pick up for an hour, hold your finger on the trigger for said time and then put it down. Nice and casual, no commitment.

I'd say Guitar Hero and all the other timing based "press this button when we say so and you'll never have to worry about independent thought ever again" games are ALSO casual games. Yet plenty of people who go on about casual vs. hardcore will happily claim Halo and Guitar Hero are awesomely in-depth and not the least bit casual. Hypocrites.

As mentioned by other people, other industries are being ruined too. People who go to see a film because the SFX look good, or because it has some chest/package to drool over = wastage.

People who buy music because there are some pretty guys or half naked lasses "performing" on the record = wastage.

OP'er: Nice to see people keeping an eye on the spelling and grammar btw! :S

 

[TommyGun465]

Meh, I dont care for "casuals" anymore.Let them play theyre games.

 

[Jumplion]

Didn't they say the same thing when the PSX/PS1 was released? You know, with all the jocksplaying Madden on it and having fun casually? History's repeating itself guys.

 

[Kemmler0]

WE DID THIS TO OUR SELVES.

Any game that is targeted at an intelligent demographic is pirated by those same people.... merely because they are intelligent.... do you see the paradox i'm getting at?
The problem with intelligent people is that most of them have no forethought.

The market will shift to whom every buys. And we don't.
We drove games towards online play, and now we are driving games away from PC and squarly into the casual gamer market.

I bought Sore on my own lttle crusade for the PC market. But now i see that it is the most pirated game of all time. Maxis will never release another PC game.

Its a brave new world and we made it for ourselves.

 

[mipegg]

*sigh* Yay for another dick waving competition.

I honestly don't get where the hate comes from with casual gamers, if you don't like the games then don't buy them for christs sake, or if you buy it and don't enjoy it don't blame other people for. There are games out there for all types of people, just because companies cant afford to make the same games they did 10 years ago doesn't mean that the industry is going to pot.

I honestly don't get why people think that liking 1 type of game over another makes them anymore 'intelligent', your all just waggling joysticks or tapping keys, its all the same thing. If you want to be more intelligent maybe turn the computer off any go read a book or learn something?

The industry makes what the majority want, just because your pushed to a fringe doesn't mean its all the fault of the new majority so get off your high horse. If its that bad just stop gaming?

 

[KimMR251]

I will admit, I did not real all of the posts but here is my thought on casual gaming:

It is one of the reasons that the video game industry is a multi-billion dollar industry globally. I do not look down upon casual gaming, for if I were to classify myself...I would consider myself a casual gamer these days. (School and profession seem to take priority as one gets older, since I am in my late 20s). Basically, a large component of the revenue are from these "casual gamers" so I wouldn't totally bash on it... =)

 

[JaguarWong]

the casual gamer demographic is ruining the indutrie

NEXT!

 

[Copter400]

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