The Cost of Education: How hard have you been hit?

[HannesPascal]

University is free in Sweden and I take a student loan to pay for living and food (I get around $360 and loan $860). The interest rate of student loans is pretty low (between 1-2%) and you don't have to pay back until you're done studying. So yeah, I guess this wasn't very helpful.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I live in Argentina, where college is mostly state-sponsored, so usually this is a non-issue unless you go to a private institute of sorts. Which I did. But with a scholarship. So it was a non-issue anyway.

 

[Miyenne]

I live in Canada. University is quite costly here.

Luckily, my parents were smart and bought a decent (not the best house they saw) house that was walking distance to two elementary schools (one a French immersion), one junior high, one highschool, and the university. I walked to all levels of schooling within 10 minutes of the house.

So for university my parents let me stay home rent free. I did not pay for food groceries, but anything extra that I used that the rest of the family didn't (ie hair products, skin care and so on) were my responsibility, as was my own schooling. They didn't pay a cent.

But I had scholarships because I worked hard in highschool. I also had part time jobs through high school and had saved up a good chunk.

So I could pay for university. I worked several jobs during university and it was rough, I admit. I went from 90%+ average in high school to a GPA of mid 2's on average in university because I would literally wake up early, go to work, bus it to school for some classes, go back to work after, bus it back to school for late afternoon/night courses, and then go home and do my homework, or back to work. Many nights I got maybe 3-5 hours of sleep.

But I got through it without debt.

Now, if only I'd gotten a useful degree...

 

[Naeras]

I live in Norway. No tuition fees, and I get a student loan where, provided I pass all my exams, 50% of the loan is given as a scholarship.

 

[Silvanus]

I went to University (Royal Holloway) and graduated, thankfully, the year before the tuition fee rise came into effect. So, a year costs approximately £3,000, which I paid by means of the SLC (Student Loans Company). When I've earned enough, I'll be paying it back for years and years. Over £9,000, that is.

SNIP

Mr. F's experience, with £9,000 per year, is the post-rise situation, of course. I've quoted you, though, because you mentioned the protests and riots, and I thought you might find it interesting to know I was there at the protest on the day of the vote.

We were prevented from leaving for eight hours, during two of which we were kettled on London Bridge. I kid you not, there was almost no vandalism until the police lines prevented people from leaving. No smashed windows that I saw, no destroyed phone boxes-- until they prevented us from leaving. I can't even comprehend the decision-making process employed by the Met.

 

[SerBrittanicus]

Oh, and apparently produces studies stating that the decrease in poor people going to university has nothing to do with the amount of debt they will be in roughly tripling. And no Universities are doing anything about it. And the students have stopped caring, stopped protesting, because nobody at the top listens.

Why would university debt in the UK stop anybody going to university? If that is one of the reasons that would put people off they shouldn't be going in the first place. The loans you are given for university are actually rather excellent in the grand scheme of financing yourself - no need to start paying it off until you are earning over a certain amount (and that threshold is even higher now) and you barely pay back anything per month even when you are over that. Even with the maintenance loan if you feel the loan isn't enough and your family is too poor to support you there are thousands of pounds of grants that these poor students would be eligible for. I admit that some courses such as medicine, engineering, sciences, etc would benefit from being free to try and attract more UK students to them, but the increase in fees still shouldn't be putting anyone off, because you will still be paying it back at the same rate.

It should also be noted that with the 9k per year tuition fees you will more than likely not pay back anymore than I do with my 3k a year fees. I finished Uni a couple of months ago and now I am above the threshold to start paying back, but at the current rate of repayment it will be over 30 years before I pay my 21k debt back completely, which means that it will be wiped anyway.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

I live in Canada. University is quite costly here.

Welcome to the club. University of Guelph, biggest moneypit I've been in. As I look back, OSAP was a huge mistake, considering the way that they've treated me. I would have been better off just getting a bank loan. Lower interest rates too.

 

[Da Orky Man]

In the UK the government give you a loan/grant at a interest rate of inflation + 3% to cover all university fees as well as either paying all of or helping with living costs, dependant on parental income. After I leave uni, I'll likely owe about £25,000 worth of loan, which you pay back at the rate of 9% of your income above £16,300 or so, but only if you are earning above £21,000/year. If you still have outstanding student loans left after 25 years, it gets wiped.

All-in-all, I'm quite happy with this. Not only is it hell of a lot less stressful than taking out a loan from a bank, but it's a fair-enough way of financing higher education. I basically look on paying back the loan as a graduate tax which you eventually stop paying.

However, I will point this out. In the UK, we have three different uni loans systems. In Scotland, there are no fees for university itself, so you only get a loan to live off. In England, the fees are £9,000/year, and you get seperate loans/grants to pay for fees and for living costs.
I happen to live in Wales, in which uni fees are about £3300/year, with the rest payed for by a Welsh Assembly grant. So although I'm not quite as lucky as the Scots up north, we can both alternate between mocking and pitying English students.

Also, could someone here from Northern Ireland, which I believe we have a couple of, inform me as to the state of uni education in Ulster?

Oh, and apparently produces studies stating that the decrease in poor people going to university has nothing to do with the amount of debt they will be in roughly tripling. And no Universities are doing anything about it. And the students have stopped caring, stopped protesting, because nobody at the top listens.

Why would university debt in the UK stop anybody going to university? If that is one of the reasons that would put people off they shouldn't be going in the first place. The loans you are given for university are actually rather excellent in the grand scheme of financing yourself - no need to start paying it off until you are earning over a certain amount (and that threshold is even higher now) and you barely pay back anything per month even when you are over that. Even with the maintenance loan if you feel the loan isn't enough and your family is too poor to support you there are thousands of pounds of grants that these poor students would be eligible for. I admit that some courses such as medicine, engineering, sciences, etc would benefit from being free to try and attract more UK students to them, but the increase in fees still shouldn't be putting anyone off, because you will still be paying it back at the same rate.

It should also be noted that with the 9k per year tuition fees you will more than likely not pay back anymore than I do with my 3k a year fees. I finished Uni a couple of months ago and now I am above the threshold to start paying back, but at the current rate of repayment it will be over 30 years before I pay my 21k debt back completely, which means that it will be wiped anyway.

This guy as it. I don;t see why those in low income families would be precluded from university provided they get the grades as the student loans are very generous, and you get more money if you have a lower household income anyway, plus the extra grants and so on available to poorer students. It may sound harsh, but in reality, what is good for the country is generally good for the government, and having a higher-educated populace is usually good for the country.

 

[CrimsonBlaze]

Well, for me, tuition was certainly a challenge to get through loan free.

I hate loans and made it my mission to obtain my BS without having any debt. I was able to get through the first two years on scholarships, grants, and a part-time job that I took after school. After the two years (we are now entering 2008), prices soared and I wasn't even sure why. My tuition increased by $200, and nearly everything from books, gas, parking permits, food, and other expenses increase by up to 50%.

Thankfully, I had a lot of money saved up and I was also able to get a paying internship full-time during the summer that allowed me to finish my next three years.

And that's how I was able to earn my BS with no debt whatsoever.

 

[IndomitableSam]

@Miyenne's sister.

I couldn't afford to study what I wanted to, so I didn't. Went to the local university, didn't finish because they make you take courses unrelated to your major in order to graduate (not kidding - it's a money grab, you must take math, sciences and writing courses, no matter what your degree is).

Went to work for a few years at minimum wage jobs (and basically all the money I made went to my parents to pay for room and board - they charged us a lot), then went back to school to go to College instead of University. Worked 20+ hours a week to pay for that, graduated with $400 to my name. Got work a few months later (had to sell some of my stuff to pay my parents rent in the meantime) and have survived since, but if I hadn't been able to live at home rent-free (while in school), I wouldn't have been able to get a higher education.

Even now when I have a good job I can't take evening courses because all my money pays for my car, rent, and other bills. I'd have to take out a loan, and I made the decision to never go into debt unless I had to.

SO right now I'm completley debt-free, but I'm really not saving any money either. ... SO thankful for my government job and pension. They don't pay well at all, but I get a pension that most likely won't disappear like private companies are doing.

 

[Quiet Stranger]

I'm in college for the very first time (almost done, last thing I have to do is a second job placement that begins in October) and I am going through Student Loans to pay for my College fees, now everything has been going great so far but now for some reason, I owe the school 2,348 dollars if I want to graduate and go on my second job placement. I don't know why I owe them so much because Student Loans has always covered everything. I do not have that kind of money and I have to pay it before October. I am fucked.

 

[Jadak]

To the OP, your level of upset is unwarranted. Your complaints basically amount to "oh no! I'm not getting enough handouts to fund my education!" Boo, freaking hoo.

Know what I did? Got out of high school, worked for some years starting when I was 18, lived cheaply/smartly and started college (Mohawk, not too far from you) at 23-24 while working part-time , no dealing with OSAP at all nor making any use of parental assistance.

What's that you say? College is cheaper and you've got it worse? Yeah, maybe, I don't know the cost variation between Guelph Uni vs Mohawk but if you're going for a Bachelor?s or something, it's over double. Think you're too good for College? Tough shit. because....

Don't try to manage shit outside of your price range. If you can't afford school, it's time to learn a valuable lesson in not trying to pay for things you can't afford rather than complaining about not being given enough assistance to cover your own shortcomings. OSAP is a courtesy, you don't get to complain about them not giving you enough.

As of now, I have 2 semesters of classes left and two job placement semesters with everything wrapped up 16 months from now. While I won't have a ton of money left at that time, it's still looking alright. I'll have effectively killed my savings, but I'll have never struggled to pay a bill and will have no debt.

Also, yes. Residence costs are bullshit and you should have skipped that from that start, plenty of options to rent a room in various student houses for much cheaper (and in my experience, better conditions). Also, since you pointed out your 'gas' expense several times, my advice? Do what I did and ditch the car, live and work as close as you can get and compensate with public transit.

 

[NoMercy Rider]

Fortunately after 10 years most of the loans will be wiped away ...

Unless that plan is cancelled sometime in the next 10 years. There's already been talk in the Senate about doing just that.

My four-year degree cost me over $30k USD but only gained me a 6% raise in salary. I'm actually paying more in loan interest than I got for a raise.

College used to be an investment. But it's becoming an investment that has negative returns.

Very true, I have been keeping on top of that, been five years into my repayment and just hope to last another five. They've already butchered the program by only allowing specific repayment plans to qualify. I remember when it first came out, you could go onto a 25 year repayment plan and still qualify for forgiveness. Worst case scenario for me, the plan gets cancelled and I will have to pay an addition $2,000, not too much in comparison to the total loan amount.

But yeah, I agree college isn't quite the investment it used to be. If you are a hard worker, it might be more profitable to work in construction and hope to move up to project management later on. I know quite a few laborers that easily make six figures in a year just by working overtime. Not bad for only having a high school diploma (some don't even have that).

 

[Thedutchjelle]

The Netherlands here.

University sets me back ~1800 euro a year, but the government pays me 90 euro per month to help me pay for my study so that balances that. Public transport is for free to. If I manage to get a degree within ten years, the government-given money is a gift and I will not have to pay a dime back.
Only begin of the year is a hit if I have to buy new books, but that ain't that bad.

 

[volcanblade]

Right now it isn't too bad, because my parents are amazing and set aside a college fund for me when I was conceived. Most of it was destroyed by the stock market crash, but between what is left and my running myself ragged with classes, I get around 35,000-37,000 in scholarship and grant money. Its still around 18 or 19000 to go to the University of Miami, but I think I will just barely avoid running into debt. In short I lucked out massively.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

To the OP, your level of upset is unwarranted. Your complaints basically amount to "oh no! I'm not getting enough handouts to fund my education!" Boo, freaking hoo.

Yeah, because I'm totally mad that nobody is giving me everything I want. That's exactly it. Totally not that I want to go to school, have desires for good employment, or any of that. I'm just mad and "too good for college" (yeah, where did I say that?). When you are going to school four hundred kilometers from home, you kind of need to have a car.

I don't see how the fuck it's a shortcoming on my part to not be eligible for high paying jobs because I don't have the degree they want, and have no way of getting without going to school. If you want to act high and mighty because you saved some money, go right ahead. There isn't much I can do about it right now except make the best of a bad situation.

 

[Jadak]

Yeah, because I'm totally mad that nobody is giving me everything I want. That's exactly it. Totally not that I want to go to school, have desires for good employment, or any of that.

I don't see how the fuck it's a shortcoming on my part to not be eligible for high paying jobs because I don't have the degree they want, and have no way of getting without going to school. If you want to act high and mighty because you saved some money, go right ahead. There isn't much I can do about it right now except make the best of a bad situation.

You seem to have overlooked my point and got the 'high and mighty bit' backwards. I'm on the low and lowly(?) side. I'm aware of that, I'm aware that everyone wants the things you're talking about. A good education? Check. A good job? Of course. Yet, you seem to be under the impression that it should be easy. Why exactly should you be able to simply skip working shitty jobs, hop right into expensive school and proceed into a good job with no problems? That's not how shit works unless you're coming from a well off family willing to cover you or otherwise got lucky.

You seem to be assuming you can skip the shitty steps and somehow deserve to get a fast-pass to 'the good life'. Suck it up, you've said that you're employed (or have been employed and / or part time during school). If you're not making enough to carry you through school, stop going to school. Cut your expenses, live reasonably and a couple years even on minimum wage will go a long way.

You don't want to work on minimum wage for the first chunk of your life? Guess what? Nobody does. You're the one acting high and mighty by apparently thinking you're better than that, and now you've reached beyond your means and it doesn't seem to be working out for you.

And you said your mom had to bail you out twice? What happened the second time? Did expenses suddenly double? That is not shit that should happen twice. If you couldn't manage it the first time around, it's not going to get easier the next time. That's when you cut your losses. If you did't have some reason to expect much more money the second time, the same problem was bound to happen.

So, while it's a bit late now that you're into your program a ways (working a shit job prior to starting school is much better than getting part way and turning it into a cluster fuck when you can't afford it and having to start over later).

In any case, it hardly matters now. Like you said, it's too late and you're more or less stuck where I'm saying you should have started. Quit trying to rush school, work whatever you can for as long as is needed and save everything you can, and try again later. Nothing wrong with going back to school in a few years. Just try not to start a family in the meantime as the extra expenses could very well bury you there.

When you are going to school four hundred kilometers from home, you kind of need to have a car.

Why? Do you have a pressing need to drive back and forth regularly? What for? Doesn't matter, that part is up to you. But for a single man, barring the occasional options where your school and/or work place is not in a region you can live nearby nor be easily accessed by public transit, a car is a luxury. You do not need to go home, but whatever. You're one with financial problems, if you really want to make it work you'll have to really re-evaluate how you live and what you're willing to sacrifice to make it work.

Anyways, do what you like. But being a high school dropout from a below middle-class who lived with nothing while working shit jobs for years to get myself in a position where I could budget in school, I don't really feel you merit much sympathy here. I know what it takes to make it work, and while it may not be particularly fun for a while, you can either do what it takes or good luck with your alternative plans.

And fyi, I wasn't saying that you had anything against college or any such thing, I was merely getting ahead of any potential trollish dismissals of my points on the grounds of "Well College is cheaper so you're wrong I'm going to ignore everything else you said just cuz!", as is typical of people on the internet. Good on you if you wouldn't have gone that route.

Although seriously, if your program is super expensive, it may not be a bad idea to try something cheaper first to get you into at least a slightly better job, and upgrade later. I'm not sure how good of shape my College program will leave me in, but it's already good enough to beat out minimum wage by a decent margin and I'll consider extending my education in the future.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Snip

I'm not looking for handouts or sympathy. I am working towards getting out of this rut via working full time this fall before returning to classes for Winter Semester. As for my car, well, distance traveling is only part of it. My Brother goes to school in Hamilton, and when I'm not working, he often needs rides to events, or even just to visit. It really helps when I can fill up and last two and a half weeks on a tank of gas, rather than using the same money for a bus pass that I never used when I was living on residence.

I don't think it should be easy (that bit me in the ass in first year), but I don't think I'm being unreasonable when I say that OSAP really needs to change their definitions on just how much a student at university needs in order to get by. While not asking for sympathy, I am asking for help in this thread by seeing how other people who have been in similar situations coped. That's not the same as someone assuimg I'm a lazy jerk who is mad at the world for not being the way I want and then telling me to suck it up and grow a pair. Yeah, when I see these established post secondary systems in other countries where they actively encourage young people to go to school, I get jealous. Who wouldn't want to see their whole education payed for by the government? We don't have that in Canada, and it is frustrating where I am pretty much being financially strangled trying to pursue my career.