The Cost of Education: How hard have you been hit?

[Mr F.]

Oh, and apparently produces studies stating that the decrease in poor people going to university has nothing to do with the amount of debt they will be in roughly tripling. And no Universities are doing anything about it. And the students have stopped caring, stopped protesting, because nobody at the top listens.

Why would university debt in the UK stop anybody going to university? If that is one of the reasons that would put people off they shouldn't be going in the first place. The loans you are given for university are actually rather excellent in the grand scheme of financing yourself - no need to start paying it off until you are earning over a certain amount (and that threshold is even higher now) and you barely pay back anything per month even when you are over that. Even with the maintenance loan if you feel the loan isn't enough and your family is too poor to support you there are thousands of pounds of grants that these poor students would be eligible for. I admit that some courses such as medicine, engineering, sciences, etc would benefit from being free to try and attract more UK students to them, but the increase in fees still shouldn't be putting anyone off, because you will still be paying it back at the same rate.

It should also be noted that with the 9k per year tuition fees you will more than likely not pay back anymore than I do with my 3k a year fees. I finished Uni a couple of months ago and now I am above the threshold to start paying back, but at the current rate of repayment it will be over 30 years before I pay my 21k debt back completely, which means that it will be wiped anyway.

For some people the very idea of debt is terrifying. People who have had their entire lives destroyed by debt in the past. This is aside from the fact that the government is planning on selling the student loan book to private finance.

Essentially, people hate debt. Especially poor people. My family made good, true, but for a very long time we were crippled with debt. I do not like the idea of being trapped in debt, I hate the fact that I will be in debt for most of my life. Sadly, most people DO think about debt when they are going to Uni. They think about debt and employment. To put it simply, though, for the poorest people in society, saying "Hey, do you want a University education? That will be more money than your family has seen. Ever." a lot of people turn around and say "Fuck that."

Alongside the whole working classes keeping each other down, I have friends whos greatest opponents to them going to university are other members of their families. Like [redacted], her mother tells her she should "KNOW HER PLACE" and goes on and on about how she already had a job earning about 15,000 a year, that should be enough for her, she shouldn't throw it away just to go to University.

So how do the fees make it so people do not want to go to University?

The same way cutting the benefit bill forces people into food banks.

People tried to rely on this government and this government kicked the ladder out from under them.

Then again, according to Gove, people who end up relying on Food Banks during a recession and the worst recovery for over 100 years only have themselves to blame. Interestingly did you know that inequality has gone up in the United Kingdom during the reign of the Tories?

And that greater inequality within society hampers economic growth?

RSA lectures. Watch them.

Then again, I do get a hint of Tory from you.

I went to University (Royal Holloway) and graduated, thankfully, the year before the tuition fee rise came into effect. So, a year costs approximately £3,000, which I paid by means of the SLC (Student Loans Company). When I've earned enough, I'll be paying it back for years and years. Over £9,000, that is.

SNIP

Mr. F's experience, with £9,000 per year, is the post-rise situation, of course. I've quoted you, though, because you mentioned the protests and riots, and I thought you might find it interesting to know I was there at the protest on the day of the vote.

We were prevented from leaving for eight hours, during two of which we were kettled on London Bridge. I kid you not, there was almost no vandalism until the police lines prevented people from leaving. No smashed windows that I saw, no destroyed phone boxes-- until they prevented us from leaving. I can't even comprehend the decision-making process employed by the Met.

The reason they kettled you is a current tactic used by the Police.

Weaponised boredom. I cannot find the bloody article.

Essentially, the way you stop people wanting to protest is you make protest really, really fucking boring. You make it tedious. Pictures of coppers beating up students and lefties, that is EXCITING and it makes the media pay attention. 50 people sat around with scary men around them? Not so much.

That said, sometimes the police want violence and vandalism. Aside from argent provocateurs, if you want to discredit a peaceful move what you do is you kettle them near a lot of glass shit. And wait for the anger to come out. Then, when people get angry (Because they have every fucking RIGHT to get angry) what you do is you claim the protest was "Infiltrated by anarchists" instead of just admitting that the student body is really fucking angry. Now, this "Infiltrated" line makes it a lot easier to crack down on protests later, remember, the police are not arrested "Students" without charge on their way down to London, they are arresting "Anarchists" (Get involved with any group of activists and pay attention to the war stories.

This government is, quite simply, morally bankrupt.

Importantly it is hard to argue that we should be paying anything. The way University is paid for is through greater levels of income tax later on in life and the fact that students enrich society. My sociology degree is worth more on a societal level than it ever will be financially for me, unless I do get into the Civil Service.

EDIT: Typos and grammatical errors throughout. Will fix soon. Wrote this at 07:30, before breakfast.

EDIT:

Yeah, because I'm totally mad that nobody is giving me everything I want. That's exactly it. Totally not that I want to go to school, have desires for good employment, or any of that.

I don't see how the fuck it's a shortcoming on my part to not be eligible for high paying jobs because I don't have the degree they want, and have no way of getting without going to school. If you want to act high and mighty because you saved some money, go right ahead. There isn't much I can do about it right now except make the best of a bad situation.

You seem to have overlooked my point and got the 'high and mighty bit' backwards. I'm on the low and lowly(?) side. I'm aware of that, I'm aware that everyone wants the things you're talking about. A good education? Check. A good job? Of course. Yet, you seem to be under the impression that it should be easy. Why exactly should you be able to simply skip working shitty jobs, hop right into expensive school and proceed into a good job with no problems? That's not how shit works unless you're coming from a well off family willing to cover you or otherwise got lucky.

You know, I am doing this cause I quiet like Soviet Heavy (Despite what he might think. He probably has no idea who I am.) so I will make this clear.

That is how it should work, that is how it used to work in the UK (Back when we had the best tertiary education on earth), that is how it works in a hell of a lot of places. You should be able to expect that. If thanks to your government you cannot expect that, change you government.

You seem to be assuming you can skip the shitty steps and somehow deserve to get a fast-pass to 'the good life'. Suck it up, you've said that you're employed (or have been employed and / or part time during school). If you're not making enough to carry you through school, stop going to school. Cut your expenses, live reasonably and a couple years even on minimum wage will go a long way.

If the system is built so the poor cannot easily attain education, it is not the poor who are at fault. Soviet is working through University, that makes far more sense and good on him. Personally, I aint working through Uni. Hopefully I will be getting a job this year, but last year, trapped on campus with no transport, working was impossible

You don't want to work on minimum wage for the first chunk of your life? Guess what? Nobody does. You're the one acting high and mighty by apparently thinking you're better than that, and now you've reached beyond your means and it doesn't seem to be working out for you.

I only really hear that phrase, "High and mighty" used by the poor against the poor. Who is Soviet to believe he DESERVES an education! Who is he to think he is better then that.

You know what?

We are all better than working some mindless piece of shit job for a minimum wage that, in many nations, does not lift you out of the poverty line.

And you said your mom had to bail you out twice? What happened the second time? Did expenses suddenly double? That is not shit that should happen twice. If you couldn't manage it the first time around, it's not going to get easier the next time. That's when you cut your losses. If you did't have some reason to expect much more money the second time, the same problem was bound to happen.

Not to make any assumptions about Soviets expenses but for some Uni and managing those finances is a shock. However, its easy for bad things to happen.

Someone important dies?
You gotta move around a lot to get to funerals and see people.

Something important breaks?
Gotta replace that laptop/car

Something gets stolen?
Gotta replace it.

Fucking stupidly priced books?
Gotta buy em!

So, while it's a bit late now that you're into your program a ways (working a shit job prior to starting school is much better than getting part way and turning it into a cluster fuck when you can't afford it and having to start over later).

In any case, it hardly matters now. Like you said, it's too late and you're more or less stuck where I'm saying you should have started. Quit trying to rush school, work whatever you can for as long as is needed and save everything you can, and try again later. Nothing wrong with going back to school in a few years. Just try not to start a family in the meantime as the extra expenses could very well bury you there.

When you are going to school four hundred kilometers from home, you kind of need to have a car.

Why? Do you have a pressing need to drive back and forth regularly? What for? Doesn't matter, that part is up to you. But for a single man, barring the occasional options where your school and/or work place is not in a region you can live nearby nor be easily accessed by public transit, a car is a luxury. You do not need to go home, but whatever. You're one with financial problems, if you really want to make it work you'll have to really re-evaluate how you live and what you're willing to sacrifice to make it work.

You are proving really good at making endless assumptions about dear Soviet.

Anyways, do what you like. But being a high school dropout from a below middle-class who lived with nothing while working shit jobs for years to get myself in a position where I could budget in school, I don't really feel you merit much sympathy here.

I know what it takes to make it work, and while it may not be particularly fun for a while, you can either do what it takes or good luck with your alternative plans.

And fyi, I wasn't saying that you had anything against college or any such thing, I was merely getting ahead of any potential trollish dismissals of my points on the grounds of "Well College is cheaper so you're wrong I'm going to ignore everything else you said just cuz!", as is typical of people on the internet. Good on you if you wouldn't have gone that route.

Although seriously, if your program is super expensive, it may not be a bad idea to try something cheaper first to get you into at least a slightly better job, and upgrade later. I'm not sure how good of shape my College program will leave me in, but it's already good enough to beat out minimum wage by a decent margin and I'll consider extending my education in the future.

I think that will do.