The cure for Avatar depression

[Malkavian]

Only through are lowest points can we discover true happiness only then can we look at people and understand them.What you are going through will pass. I'm still depressed I.. I don't know if I will ever beable to get out alive without going insane. I might just end up as a drifter like my uncle talking to voices in his head looking for more booze. I might just end up in lowest point possiable like my mother, I might just end up self-absorbed and uncaring like my father. I don't know how I will move past that, I don't if I can live another day sometimes. I know I should not be sad, there has been worst and my sad tale is just a blip on human suffering, the only thing that keeps me moving on is trying to understand people. What is it that makes you feel as if there is no hope?

I don't think there is no hope. I know I can be cured, but I can't see or feel the light at the end of the tunnel the way I am now. There is no beauty in what I feel. I am sorry if I seemed a bit aggressive, but I am just so sick and tired of the people that constantly claim to be depressed, and turn out okay a few days later, having no idea what depression really is. I just don't know how anyone could ever see depression as something beautiful, so I guess I pegged you for one of the pretendes. I apologize. It's just that depression is really something more people should know about and understand - it's becomming a common occurence, but those that have never experieced it themselves have so little idea of what it is.

Anyways, we are both getting OT. We should not disturb the thread further. Again, sorry if I misunderstood you.

 

[maninahat]

I don't see why we should limit the complaints to Western culture (and then mention China as well for some reason). Most cultures are like this, including the ones that the Western and Eastern empires have opressed.

And you mentioned Tibetans. I'm going to go a little off topic now...*Angry hat on*...Funny how they seem to get a free ride, especially when it comes to religion. Before China started slapping tibet around, Tibet was a country ruled not by politicians, but by the religious caste. Tibet relied on serfdom, where only 5% of the population were educated at all, and only the wealthy had any power. I'm not saying that Chinas actions are in any way good, but Tibet is no saint either. It was certainly not the happy, harmless place that pritesters have painted it.

Why is religion and technology being bitched about here? One thing that annoyed me about the film Avatar is the portrayal of the Navi religion. It turns out by the end of the movie that their spiritual beliefs were actually based on a tactile, real, magical understanding of the World and not some distant theological premise based on supernaturalism or superstition. Their religion was portrayed as 100% correct, making it automatically superior to any human religion such as Christianity or Buddhism.

Technology is not a problem either. Where did the Navi get their weapons and building material from? Magic? No, they had to exploit the World around them to some extent. They had to use technology to a limit. Technology itself is a tool, not inately evil in itself. The same can be said of religion.

I said as much in my rant above. I'm a technophile, but I strongly believe in putting technology in it's place, as a tool, and we fucking worship it as a religion in the world today. Maoism was an extension of european imperialism carried across cultures. Tibet had it's problems to be sure BUT: Tibet was learning. Look at the history of Tibet's leaders and you will see a growth in understanding. That's a hell of a lot more than I can say about Maoist China.

That comes across as fairly ignorant. Maoist China reflects much of European Imperialism, however China itself was a victim of Imperialism at one point. As was England for that matter, on at least three occasions (so yes, I technically know whether it is a free ride or not). China developed significantly itself, even under Mao, and I'd say it has "learnt" in much the same way as Tibet.

Furthermore, I love religion. I hate what the Hoi Polloi have done to religion. As I said in my rant, Christianity was amazing when it started. Then Constantine came along.

Ah, so you do not count as part of this hoi polloi then? You might be interested to note how Buddhism came to Tibet. Seems that the people of Tibet were perfectly happy with Bon, that other religion they had before hand.

Now we shove many of them into nursing homes. That says something to me.

I've worked in a nursing home and hospital. Whilst it would be nice that every family could take in their elders, I don't think it is fair to condemn all of them for sending them to specialists, just to ensure they get proper care.

The bottom line? I don't suffer from avatar depression, but I think I understand one of it's major causes. We don't know how to live, and we've wiped out damn near any culture that made that it's primary focus. Technology and religion are tools. We can use them properly, or we can do what we've been doing with them. Even atheists are not exempt from this, thanx to Richard Dawkins: He made his version of condescending trolling into it's own religion and he has his own rabid adherents, and he's trashing every culture that isn't as technologically advanced as possible.

I'm not a Richard Dawkins fan either. But you have to wonder: is it not morally reprehensible for more advanced cultures to ignore less advanced ones, knowing perfectly well that their medical and technological superiority would ensure these "primitive" peoples live longer and healthier? That is a tough question, because one has to note what the cost of intervention is.

I personally don't think any culture has any superior way to finding out the right way to live. Occasionally a culture does contain some forward thinking, like Buddhism's relationship with physcology (the Dalia Lama himself is keenly interested in neuropsychology) but I don't think any culture has found all the answers. Not the Buddhists nor the American Indians. I think every individual is lost at sea until they find an appropriate mind set which suits them. Once they find their niche (whatever it is) that is all that matters.

 

[aarontg]

Watch the smurfs on a travel dvd player while on top a cliff in Vietnam.

 

[Mcupobob]

Only through are lowest points can we discover true happiness only then can we look at people and understand them.What you are going through will pass. I'm still depressed I.. I don't know if I will ever beable to get out alive without going insane. I might just end up as a drifter like my uncle talking to voices in his head looking for more booze. I might just end up in lowest point possiable like my mother, I might just end up self-absorbed and uncaring like my father. I don't know how I will move past that, I don't if I can live another day sometimes. I know I should not be sad, there has been worst and my sad tale is just a blip on human suffering, the only thing that keeps me moving on is trying to understand people. What is it that makes you feel as if there is no hope?

I don't think there is no hope. I know I can be cured, but I can't see or feel the light at the end of the tunnel the way I am now. There is no beauty in what I feel. I am sorry if I seemed a bit aggressive, but I am just so sick and tired of the people that constantly claim to be depressed, and turn out okay a few days later, having no idea what depression really is. I just don't know how anyone could ever see depression as something beautiful, so I guess I pegged you for one of the pretendes. I apologize. It's just that depression is really something more people should know about and understand - it's becomming a common occurence, but those that have never experieced it themselves have so little idea of what it is.

Anyways, we are both getting OT. We should not disturb the thread further. Again, sorry if I misunderstood you.

It's ok, I just see that some of the greatest art and poems have been created through this sickness. Somday though we might beable to re-connect with the human condition if we get out of this alive then we can enjoy it even more so. I wish you the best of luck, try to find an outlet just to ease the pain it can help.

 

[Arashi500]

The Japanese culture (Pre-expansionist, probably pre-imperialist too) is based on depression. It is a beautiful thing, or atleast what it can cause is beautiful (depending perspective of couse).

 

[CloakedOne]

but depression is a beauty on its on for it gives makes us relize art and life, happiness is just a noroctic that leaves you hallow but is necessary form time to time.

What? Depression is a beauty? Do you have any idea, any idea at all, what being depressed feels like?

beauty can be different things to different people.

 

[Dusty Donuts]

The world has changed, but it's hardly as bleak as you say it is. While imperialization/colonization/etc. may have destroyed native cultures, this is still a somewhat narrow view on life. Let me give you an example:

50 years ago, imagine that you were suddenly transported halfway around the world to Asia, Africa, etc. You'd try and talk with the people, but you wouldn't be able to communicate. You'd have no common ground, and at best, you'd be able to make it to an embassy and talk with one of your countrymen. There's no way you'd go wandering in the middle of a city in that environment.

Today, do the same, and you'd be able to find people that spoke the same language as you. The people around you might not have the exact stuff that you do, but they have amenities like television and internet, and you might find it easier to talk with them, in fact (since you have some common ground). It's not bad that we all have somewhat common ground to talk to people with: it's good.

Oh, and I don't mean to insult you with this but seriously, you sound like an idealist hippie. Hippies aren't good or bad, but even the most liberal hippies desire things just like everyone else. Hippies trying to get stuff out of supposedly "pure" practices is nothing new. Ask how many male hippies sign up for studying tantric Hinduism for purely spiritual reasons and not to have better sex. Or how many hippies are willing to give away all of their food, possessions, etc. to some random stranger. People are people, you sound like you're blaming them for doing stuff that comes naturally to us.

If you really want to get people "learning how to live" and "learning how to relax instead of physically crushing each other", do something about it. Create a volunteer group that helps out others in the community. Or donate half (or more) of your money to people in third-world countries. Or simply do research on many falsehoods propagated by even the "eco" movement (hint: the "natural" side is not as pristine as you think it is). By doing that, you might just solve this "depression" that comes from a movie and do something that makes an impact on someone's life.

It's too hard to take you seriously with that avatar.
OT: Avatar Depression, eh? Problem; people think others ACTUALLY live like that.

EDIT: Because I'm a presumptive tool I need to explain something. Avatar depression is a phenomenon where people who see the movie Avatar realize their lives will never be as cool/pretty/exotic as Pandora and get really depressed about it.

NO-ONE'S lives will ever be as exotic at that. Do others think "look what I'm missing out on, boo hoo"? In all seriousness, when will anyone ever live like that.

 

[Captain Blackout]

Do you realize the irony of getting depressed about the technology in our lives from watching one of the most technologically advanced movies and then talking about it using one the most sophisticated pieces of technology on the planet?

... I personally prefer it stoned...

Yeah, probably not.

I do see the irony, and I also see that technology is wonderful, when used properly. The greatest thing about the internet? That we can discuss serious issues like this on a global basis, and I can research any topic I need to when writing. But nice try pinning me down based on a single line..........

 

[skyfire_freckles]

Nature is an extremely complex system of which we are part.

We are not opposed to nature. We may exhaust the resources we have and die, or learn to conserve them, or find alternates, and live. The earth will die someday no matter what we do. Either we die with it, or find a way to live. Beauty exists because we are here to observe it and pass such a judgement; beauty is beautiful in part because it is fleeting. Change happens. Changing also is the only way to survive. Find beauty and a reason to live. Or die.

And if you're depressed, watch this, and believe it:

Spoiler

you got four minutes to spend with Carl Sagan et al.

 

[Captain Blackout]

*snip*
Secondly, that blow at capitalism was more or less uncalled for and unwarranted.
*snip*

Never mind the rest of what you said, there's too much to tackle there in this forum at the moment. The blow at capitalism was very called for and very warranted. Why? Because just like tech and dogmatic religions, there are plenty of Americans who literally worship capitalism without any regard for the negative consequences. We just saw the tip of the iceberg with AIG et al. The absolute fact of the matter is many American capitalists will use it to drive anything good into the ground for their own benefit because of their blind worship. Given the overall theme of my post, the blow at capitalism was perfect.

 

[Captain Blackout]

Generalization now has a new definition: Captain Blackout.

So I'm supposed to just go my church and do good works there (which I do) instead of voicing a philosophy I've worked my whole life at? How about I do both, that okay with you? Also, I said the tech was just toys. I also admitted in another post in this thread that I'm a technophile, I love the toys. I just don't worship them, they way the culture around me seems to. Finally, I know something about folks who went halfway around the world over 50 years ago and did just fine. They were called explorers and the best of them learned how to learn new languages and live in new enviroments, something we don't teach. Here's a thought, let's take all our tech and build better schools, make as much education as possible available to as many as possible. Here's another thought: Don't peg me as an unrealistic hippie after one post. I am a hippie, but unrealistic? No. I put my lessons to use first and foremost at home for my family and they work.

Good point indeed; words are only words unless put into action.

When tackling the largest challenges, generalization can be unavoidable. The other option is a wall-o-text from hell as I post an entire novel on the subjects I'm taking on here.

 

[Lavi]

If a movie depresses you, then your life does suck. You should do something.

 

[Mcupobob]

"life has given me nothing, you have to take form life to get something out of it, create, destroy, cry, and laugh, because that is all we have till the end, enjoy your humanity"

I'm starting to get what you are saying, not to worship technology or a theocracy, or a simple econmice idea. I still don't understand your tie to nature though. I have been in it and ever time it was a fight, I did enjoy the sites though. What I'm trying to say though is to not worship nature either. We as a race need to come together and fight for eachother. like I said if you can please try to see it my way too. I'm trying to see your view points too but I'm having trouble.

Edit: I did enjoy the fight though it remined me of how small I am.

 

[Captain Blackout]

"life has given me nothing, you have to take form life to get something out of it, create, destroy, cry, and laugh, because that is all we have till the end, enjoy your humanity"

I'm starting to get what you are saying, not to worship technology or a theocracy, or a simple econmice idea. I still don't understand your tie to nature though. I have been in it and ever time it was a fight, I did enjoy the sites though. What I'm trying to say though is to not worship nature either. We as a race need to come together and fight for eachother. like I said if you can please try to see it my way too. I'm trying to see your view points too but I'm having trouble.

I get it. Okay, here's one of the great secrets: Life is suffering. It is joy too but per buddhism it is suffering. Life is constant struggle. We have externalized our struggles so that they're against nature or each other, but the real struggle is within. Master yourself and everything else is cake (mostly, because the cake is a lie). It is possible to work with nature instead of against it. One example I loved: When the first settlers came to America, some of them died because they fought with the soil and over-worked it, draining it of resources. They ran out of food and soon dinner for 6 meant 5 were eating. The natives knew about leaving fields fallow in order to provide. Native tribes had hard lives, but for some of those tribes those lives were meaningful and compassion filled. Very few people I know say grace at dinner, and when they do, it's always to God or Jesus or something. Many native tribes gave thanks to the spirits of the animals they were eating.

Life feeds on life. This can be energizing or destructive. For many species this works. For humans, it is a choice. Death will come to us all, even me and you, and this too is ok. I believe in re-birth but even if I'm wrong, I can live a peaceful life with the family I've chosen and built in harmony rather than destructively with the world around us.

Does this help any?

BTW, you win this thread. Some of the people here already agreed with me, many others are mis-quoting me like goobs. I think you might be one of the few to change perspectives some, and certainly you came from the furthest away from mine, I think.

 

[Mcupobob]

"life has given me nothing, you have to take form life to get something out of it, create, destroy, cry, and laugh, because that is all we have till the end, enjoy your humanity"

I'm starting to get what you are saying, not to worship technology or a theocracy, or a simple econmice idea. I still don't understand your tie to nature though. I have been in it and ever time it was a fight, I did enjoy the sites though. What I'm trying to say though is to not worship nature either. We as a race need to come together and fight for eachother. like I said if you can please try to see it my way too. I'm trying to see your view points too but I'm having trouble.

I get it. Okay, here's one of the great secrets: Life is suffering. It is joy too but per buddhism it is suffering. Life is constant struggle. We have externalized our struggles so that they're against nature or each other, but the real struggle is within. Master yourself and everything else is cake (mostly, because the cake is a lie). It is possible to work with nature instead of against it. One example I loved: When the first settlers came to America, some of them died because they fought with the soil and over-worked it, draining it of resources. They ran out of food and soon dinner for 6 meant 5 were eating. The natives knew about leaving fields fallow in order to provide. Native tribes had hard lives, but for some of those tribes those lives were meaningful and compassion filled. Very few people I know say grace at dinner, and when they do, it's always to God or Jesus or something. Many native tribes gave thanks to the spirits of the animals they were eating.

Life feeds on life. This can be energizing or destructive. For many species this works. For humans, it is a choice. Death will come to us all, even me and you, and this too is ok. I believe in re-birth but even if I'm wrong, I can live a peaceful life with the family I've chosen and built in harmony rather than destructively with the world around us.

Does this help any?

BTW, you win this thread. Some of the people here already agreed with me, many others are mis-quoting me like goobs. I think you might be one of the few to change perspectives some, and certainly you came from the furthest away from mine, I think.

Ok, thank you now I can leave this thread knowing not everthing is a fight, thank your for helping me understand this. Also on the Avatar depression no matter what the cause it should not be made fun of, because it pains us all. Hopefully we both came out learning something, good night.

 

[Malkavian]

but depression is a beauty on its on for it gives makes us relize art and life, happiness is just a noroctic that leaves you hallow but is necessary form time to time.

What? Depression is a beauty? Do you have any idea, any idea at all, what being depressed feels like?

beauty can be different things to different people.

Again, do you know what depression is? You might as well have quoted me saying "What? A cripple can walk?" and then say there are different ways of walking. We are dealing with an illness that is defined as a state of unhappiness. I won't deny you could define beauty in some theoretical way that would make this connection possible, but in the context that was being discussed here, that's not the case. I can see no possible way that a depressed person could ever think: "this I'm feeling... it's beautiful."

 

[Captain Blackout]

but depression is a beauty on its on for it gives makes us relize art and life, happiness is just a noroctic that leaves you hallow but is necessary form time to time.

What? Depression is a beauty? Do you have any idea, any idea at all, what being depressed feels like?

beauty can be different things to different people.

Again, do you know what depression is? You might as well have quoted me saying "What? A cripple can walk?" and then say there are different ways of walking. We are dealing with an illness that is defined as a state of unhappiness. I won't deny you could define beauty in some theoretical way that would make this connection possible, but in the context that was being discussed here, that's not the case. I can see no possible way that a depressed person could ever think: "this I'm feeling... it's beautiful."

I've been watching your discussion. I see precisely where you're coming from. Having dealt with lifelong depression I know just how much it sucks. However (isn't there always a however) I can see where one might find beauty in depression. There is a strange solace in accepting one's clinical pessimism, becoming a fatalist, and finding a way to survive by embracing depression. In embracing depression, one can find beauty even in it. I do NOT recommend the path, just saying I can see it.