The Dangers of Abundant Praise - Skyrim thread

[The_Emperor]

well its not like you can take hours running from one side of the map to the other or something, it's not like there are hundreds of hours of voice acted gameplay, numerous different story arcs. I mean hundreds of hours worth of game play pffft. Who cares? Nevermind the hundreds of unique dungeons with mini story lines and awesome locations and masterfully crafted geography.

The game is nothing short of technological genius do you know how much stuff there is crammed into that game?

Sorry if a team of a few hundred devs didn't have time to make all the quests works of art they had to create A SMALL CONTINENT

Do you know how hard it is to make games? Do you know how hard it is to make games during an economic crisis where devs are understaffed, have publishers breathing down their necks and have a time limit in which to create what has to be considered a small masterpiece just to turn a profit?

Do you know how hard it must have been to meet player expectations after creating one of the most forward thinking, technologically advanced game series of all time?

The game has flaws sorry it isn't perfect, if you don't enjoy it fine, but people need to stop making threads calling it out everyday because the devs didn't get it quite the way they like it, games are subjective so yeah

Skyrim is still a feat of gaming genius even if it does have some glaringly large flaws, I appreciate it for what it is and have enjoyed playing it despite them.

There is no "lost generation" of awesome games. Some games are good some suck. end of. Devs have different parameters to work within now, high risk industry coupled with increasing demand for technological innovation. We've pretty much done everything and it's getting harder to come up with new material.

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

I present the problem for people to think about and form their own opinions. Perhaps wiser people can come up with a solution.

I admit the language I used is not exactly neutral but there really is no need to read all kinds of insinuations into it. Unless of course you believe you have completely figured me out as a person just by reading a few lines of text on an internet forum. Your assumptions are more revealing about you.

Are you telling me there is no merit in Dennis Scimeca's opinion, which is substantiated by argument? Go read it for yourself: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/firstperson/9265-Skyrim-is-Soulless

"Actual" examples of shortfalls...is that shorthand for examples that confirm your own beliefs/ opinions? "Don't like, don't play". How does this "argument" help game franchises to grow/ evolve? Are all critics supposed to be either full of praise or shut the hell up?

Wise people can come up with a solution, but a critic is one that can also see how to make something better. Without that they are just ranting, and wasting breath. Essentially, if one is to read a gripe and moan about a particular manor, but they fail to have put proper thought into it, and cannot offer a suggestion for improvement, then why should one actually listen to the user. Why should I be bothered to put effort and thought into my arguement if you don't?

When I say actual evidence, I was refering to the quote you use. The one from "Anthraxus"(Skyrim relishes in shallow, mindless violence and presents it as the predominant solution to almost all problems.) This is just an opinion, and therefore an invalid point. Just because there is an option to use violence, doesn't make it the predominant choice. Then again, a game that is based on fighting monsters won't let you take the diplomatic pacifist option every time.

I did read the firstperson article in question, and thought that while, yes it did make some valid points, that in this stage of time, expecing a game as big as skyrim, with as many choice options as skyrim, and as much variety too, to have thought of everything, in every aspect is beyond me. People in games arn't going to act 100% realistically each time, because game development would increase ten fold to incorperate all of the other dialog choices. But I also agree in the sense that why include the character at all if she doesn't even intergrate properly with the surroundings and make any sense when she talks. Saying that however, then how are we going to get to the point of added realism, if we don't first experience the not so realistic, and comment on how to improve that first?

I apologise if it sounded like I was attacking you personally, that I was not doing. I was just attacking your arguement, like in any good debate. Maybe I watch too much BBC Parliment, and am being too much like the UK politicians who dance about the proffessional/personal line like its a handbag at a hen night!

And the 'don't like, don't play' arguement is a completely valid suggestion. Otherwise I could turn up and have a dig at Fifa Games, or ar Fishing Sims, just because I don't like that type of game.

I think it has been very well established that Skyrim is a good game, with the positive reveiws, and people with positive experiences vastly out weighing the negative counterparts. I don't think that flaws that are only experienced by some people, and not everyone who has played the game, can hold their own and ultimately make the game bad. Especially if these arguements are then going to be taken and examplified and then blown to astronomical levels to make a wobbly point at best... Good luck though, but you don't have me sold.

 

[Manji187]

well its not like you can take hours running from one side of the map to the other or something, it's not like there are hundreds of hours of voice acted gameplay, numerous different story arcs. I mean hundreds of hours worth of game play pffft. Who cares? Nevermind the hundreds of unique dungeons with mini story lines and awesome locations and masterfully crafted geography.

The game is nothing short of technological genius do you know how much stuff there is crammed into that game?

Sorry if a team of a few hundred devs didn't have time to make all the quests works of art they had to create A SMALL CONTINENT

Do you know how hard it is to make games? Do you know how hard it is to make games during an economic crisis where devs are understaffed, have publishers breathing down their necks and have a time limit in which to create what has to be considered a small masterpiece just to turn a profit?

Do you know how hard it must have been to meet player expectations after creating one of the most forward thinking, technologically advanced game series of all time?

The game has flaws sorry it isn't perfect, if you don't enjoy it fine, but people need to stop making threads calling it out everyday because the devs didn't get it quite the way they like it, games are subjective so yeah

Skyrim is still a feat of gaming genius even if it does have some glaringly large flaws, I appreciate it for what it is and have enjoyed playing it despite them.

There is no "lost generation" of awesome games. Some games are good some suck. end of. Devs have different parameters to work within now, high risk industry coupled with increasing demand for technological innovation. We've pretty much done everything and it's getting harder to come up with new material.

You won't have me arguing that Skyrim isn't an example of TECHNOLOGICAL genius (even though Morrowind is probably larger...spatially).

You make it sound as if I have been disrespectful towards the developers for criticizing their game on the point of ROLEPLAYING. Of course people can enjoy games despite their flaws, but wouldn't people also want to see progress? Perfection may be unattainable, but a good game can be made better; there is room for improvement. And where Skyrim could've been better is in the roleplaying department.

 

[SextusMaximus]

You're assuming that the negative opinions are somehow "right". They're not right or wrong, it's merely subjective. The majority (or so it seems) of people who've played the game love it and feel that the roleplaying aspect couldn't have been better fulfilled (myself included) - so ts "abundant praise" may lead Bethesda to create another game which succeeds and fails in the same aspects as Skyrim, and you know what? I wont be disappointed in the least.

 

[Manji187]

I did read the firstperson article in question, and thought that while, yes it did make some valid points, that in this stage of time, expecing a game as big as skyrim, with as many choice options as skyrim, and as much variety too, to have thought of everything, in every aspect is beyond me. People in games arn't going to act 100% realistically each time, because game development would increase ten fold to incorperate all of the other dialog choices. But I also agree in the sense that why include the character at all if she doesn't even intergrate properly with the surroundings and make any sense when she talks. Saying that however, then how are we going to get to the point of added realism, if we don't first experience the not so realistic, and comment on how to improve that first?

I.e. we learn through mistakes/ imperfections...but they need to be clear. Critics are in the habit of pointing out such imperfections so they can be remedied, right?

I apologise if it sounded like I was attacking you personally, that I was not doing. I was just attacking your arguement, like in any good debate. Maybe I watch too much BBC Parliment, and am being too much like the UK politicians who dance about the proffessional/personal line like its a handbag at a hen night!

It's okay, this is the Internet after all

And the 'don't like, don't play' arguement is a completely valid suggestion. Otherwise I could turn up and have a dig at Fifa Games, or ar Fishing Sims, just because I don't like that type of game.

It's just that to me this "argument" sounds like: "Like the game, otherwise shut up". Even if a person likes the game completely or parts of it, it's not like he's supposed to become blind to the imperfections. And it's not like the good parts can undo the imperfections; they can at best make the player ignore/ tolerate them but they remain present nonetheless.

I think it has been very well established that Skyrim is a good game, with the positive reveiws, and people with positive experiences vastly out weighing the negative counterparts. I don't think that flaws that are only experienced by some people, and not everyone who has played the game, can hold their own and ultimately make the game bad. Especially if these arguements are then going to be taken and examplified and then blown to astronomical levels to make a wobbly point at best... Good luck though, but you don't have me sold.

Heh...well aren't you the democrat . Are you telling me that if on a rainy day a million people shout that it isn't raining they are right because they are louder than the 100 people that whisper that it IS raining?

Skyrim has imperfections. Anyone is allowed to point them out. If the majority is inclined to ignore/ tolerate them, that does not make the minority wrong. Pure peer pressure at work if you ask me.

 

[Vault101]

Could this be the beginning of the conditioning of a whole new generation of gamers? A generation that does not need genuine reasons, ambiguities, subtleties, only clear targets and shiny loot?

You mean... like the original Super Mario Bros.?

You got loot in that? What, the mushrooms?

... Now I want mushrooms in Skyrim that make me grow to the size of a giant. And give me their Atmosphere Smash Attack.

Anyways, yeah, the writing in Skyrim is pretty damn bad. Some of the worst I've seen in a game that's otherwise good. And the voice acting definitely doesn't help. Honestly, the voice acting in it is more varied then Oblivion but that somehow just makes its lack of quality more apparent...

But I still feel that it's the best game I've ever played, and in actuality has an amazing role playing element. I still feel as though I'm my character, no matter what I do. I just feel that the people around me are dull, so I go off exploring to escape the ho-hum of society. And I don't do the quests for the people involved, but more for the feel of accomplishment or because it's a dire situation.

Role playing isn't always dialogue based. Although I loved Dragon Age 2, I felt more immersed in Dark Souls because of how visceral an experience it is and how nerve wracking it is to worry about what's around the next corner.

But, give me a game with the world of Skyrim and better writing and characters, and I'd say the game would be pretty much as close to perfect as we can get in this day and age of gaming.

Oh, and I have a feeling they're paying attention to the people critiquing the writing. Maybe TES 6, years down the road, will be a true masterpiece of writing and environment.

actually speaking of Dark souls...(addmitidly from the little Ive played) you could say that it does everything the same as Skyrim...very little diogue systm..no charachterisation

BUT for some reason the problems I had with skyrim arnt nearly as bad, I actually give a damn about my charachter and whats going on..it just seems to be set up better

my point is perhaps some of the problems me (and others) have pointed out would be that hard to improve...without sacrificing what fans love about the series

 

[Manji187]

You're assuming that the negative opinions are somehow "right". They're not right or wrong, it's merely subjective. The majority (or so it seems) of people who've played the game love it and feel that the roleplaying aspect couldn't have been better fulfilled (myself included) - so ts "abundant praise" may lead Bethesda to create another game which succeeds and fails in the same aspects as Skyrim, and you know what? I wont be disappointed in the least.

So if you went to Fort Greymoor, slayed the bandits and talked to Agnis like Dennis Scimeca did...in your case she WILL acknowledge the changed situation?

So when you play the game and have attained the level of God among men the NPC's do acknowledge this?

So when you put a bucket over a shop owner's head because you want to nick stuff he or she'll throw it off and start screaming at you?

So when you kill a shop owner (with witnesses around) and his next of kin inherits the place they will not sell you stuff but assault you on sight, instead of pretending nothing happened?

So when you are accepted as the Archmage after having performed like 3 or 4 quests while hardly being proficient at any type of magic...that is totally believable to you?

And so on.

If you chose to ignore/ tolerate these issues, that's on you. It doesn't make the imperfections magically disappear. You must really like the exploration (the hiking and sight seeing) and combat. That's fine. You enjoy it in your own special way. Doesn't change the fact that there are OBJECTIVE issues that should be addressed to improve the roleplaying experience.

 

[D Moness]

I think people who don't like Skyrim don't understand the thrill of exploring really. It's half in getting through a cave and killing the monsters or getting to a quest objective the other half is finding out what's down here or over that hill.

That isn't for everyone. Since i have not played skyrim but played oblivion. I did like Oblivion at the start but that game because really bring for me. Since i expect it is the same for skyrim i haven't bought/played that game. It isn't that i do not get the thrill of exploring , i mean i really love exploring in fallout 3 (around 200 hours spend in that game and started all over again).

I love playing rpg's (Wrpg's and Jrpg's) I also have been part of a D&D group for 15 years(more or less) so i understand the thrill of exploring. Some people just find the game boring it doesn't have to do with the fact that they might not understand the thrill of something.


ps. I even like playing 2 world at the start but that became boring as well.

 

[JesterRaiin]

Skinner's box
"An operant conditioning chamber permits experimenters to study behavior conditioning (training) by teaching a subject animal to perform certain actions (like pressing a lever) in response to specific stimuli, like a light or sound signal. When the subject correctly performs the behavior, the chamber mechanism delivers food or another reward. In some cases, the mechanism delivers a punishment for incorrect or missing responses. With this apparatus, experimenters perform studies in conditioning and training through reward/punishment mechanisms."

So you're suggesting that we're Bethesda's guinea pigs or what ?

The danger is that Bethesda, inspired by sales and overzealous fans, will draw the wrong conclusion; that for TES VI it just has to provide an improved Skinner box...that it can leave out the role-playing entirely if gameplay is addictive enough.

Since "TES : the Arena" they are recreating one and the same formula for sandbox games. I see no problem in that.

The message is: "Don't think too deep/ hard about the details, just play play play...kill this, loot that, another cave, another dungeon...craft, kill, loot, stash away, ad infinitum ad nauseam (ie and so on forever). Are we having (mindless) fun yet?"

Au contraire. It's "look at all those shiny details". Bethesda's games are VERY lacking the big picture department. It's trees in place of forest case. And as far as i understand it, such games aren't meant to be just for everyone out there.


Also : people forget about most important thing in Bethesda's games - mods. Really, i can't stress it enough, but this is wonderful concept. Their vanilla games are like engines for our own stories, creations, ideas.
As for me this fact alone is enough to become interested with each and every new sandbox game.

 

[Kecunk]

the thing about these games is that the role playing aspect isn't force fed to you but that doesn't me its non existant. You're basically just handed a blank slate and have to use your imagination to fill in the blanks and then let yourself be drawn into the experience.

just my 2 cents

 

[SextusMaximus]

You're assuming that the negative opinions are somehow "right". They're not right or wrong, it's merely subjective. The majority (or so it seems) of people who've played the game love it and feel that the roleplaying aspect couldn't have been better fulfilled (myself included) - so ts "abundant praise" may lead Bethesda to create another game which succeeds and fails in the same aspects as Skyrim, and you know what? I wont be disappointed in the least.

So if you went to Fort Greymoor, slayed the bandits and talked to Agnis like Dennis Scimeca did...in your case she WILL acknowledge the changed situation?

So when you play the game and have attained the level of God among men the NPC's do acknowledge this?

So when you put a bucket over a shop owner's head because you want to nick stuff he or she'll throw it off and start screaming at you?

So when you kill a shop owner (with witnesses around) and his next of kin inherits the place they will not sell you stuff but assault you on sight, instead of pretending nothing happened?

So when you are accepted as the Archmage after having performed like 3 or 4 quests while hardly being proficient at any type of magic...that is totally believable to you?

And so on.

If you chose to ignore/ tolerate these issues, that's on you. It doesn't make the imperfections magically disappear. You must really like the exploration (the hiking and sight seeing) and combat. That's fine. You enjoy it in your own special way. Doesn't change the fact that there are OBJECTIVE issues that should be addressed to improve the roleplaying experience.

I accept that there are plenty of issues that ruin the role playing experience, but I find people DO acknowledge me as a fearsome assassin, they do acknowledge me as a thief, they praise me for what I've done for them, or for their town as well! Yes, the roleplaying aspect can be improved - as it can in any other RPG game - but compare it to Mass Effect or Dragon Age - I'd say there is far more of a role playing aspect in Skyrim than either of those two games.

 

[Skin]

Guys, before you start criticizing Skyrim, realize what it is. It is an open world game and with that comes so many restrictions. They can't force a compelling story down the players throat because there will never be a sense of urgency when you want to give the player freedom. Whereas many, many games try to be as tight with their gameplay as possible, Bethesda does not and cannot make TES a tight game. This is not that hard of a concept to grasp.

That said, the game is very bad IMO. All they had to do was do a straight rip off of MnB combat, and yet they didn't. The shear stupidity of that astounds me. And once again they strip away freedoms of the players and make themselves look like absolute dicks via Maiq the liar. Why do they continue to strip away the very freedoms that make the game so attractive in the first place? Glitches that are game-breaking on a mass scale such as Skyrim has is unacceptable, and on that point alone one could say that the game is objectively bad. But people seem to look past these problems and many, many more because they are having fun.

Indeed all of TES games greatest weakness and greatest strength is in the fact that it is not focused. They are two sides of the same coin and depending on which side you look on, it decides whether you will like this game or not.

 

[Hides His Eyes]

You're assuming that the negative opinions are somehow "right". They're not right or wrong, it's merely subjective. The majority (or so it seems) of people who've played the game love it and feel that the roleplaying aspect couldn't have been better fulfilled (myself included) - so ts "abundant praise" may lead Bethesda to create another game which succeeds and fails in the same aspects as Skyrim, and you know what? I wont be disappointed in the least.

So if you went to Fort Greymoor, slayed the bandits and talked to Agnis like Dennis Scimeca did...in your case she WILL acknowledge the changed situation?

So when you play the game and have attained the level of God among men the NPC's do acknowledge this?

So when you put a bucket over a shop owner's head because you want to nick stuff he or she'll throw it off and start screaming at you?

So when you kill a shop owner (with witnesses around) and his next of kin inherits the place they will not sell you stuff but assault you on sight, instead of pretending nothing happened?

So when you are accepted as the Archmage after having performed like 3 or 4 quests while hardly being proficient at any type of magic...that is totally believable to you?

And so on.

If you chose to ignore/ tolerate these issues, that's on you. It doesn't make the imperfections magically disappear. You must really like the exploration (the hiking and sight seeing) and combat. That's fine. You enjoy it in your own special way. Doesn't change the fact that there are OBJECTIVE issues that should be addressed to improve the roleplaying experience.

I think you're absolutely right, actually. Those things are problems, yes, and I'd be very happy to see these aspects improved in the next game. But yes, speaking for myself and (I'm guessing) many others, the thrill of exploration and organically arising situations and the setting and everything else Skyrim gets right, more than outweigh those problems.

Also, I find it perfectly understandable that when a game gives you this much freedom, it is near impossible to program a believable response to every possible action the PC might take. For instance, putting buckets on shopkeepers' heads. In almost any other game - especially of the kind that have mostly been coming out recently - the only time it would be possible to put a bucket on someone's head would be when the game's story dictates it. It would be entirely pre-determined, and your victim would give a similarly pre-determined response; and it would be a perfectly believable and appropriate response because the developers would know the exact situation and would program it as a scripted sequence. In Skyrim, an NPC's response to anything a PC does has to be generic, repeatable, applicable to any situation. This means people act strangely sometimes and certain actions don't get a response from an NPC, mostly actions that are physically possible but don't make much sense (like putting buckets on people's heads). The developers can't account for everything. But that's the price you pay for a game that offers you as much freedom as Skyrim. And in an environment flooded by games that are essentially very long corridors punctuated by pre-determined, micro-managed set-pieces, it's a price I'm perfectly willing to pay.

 

[The_Emperor]

well its not like you can take hours running from one side of the map to the other or something, it's not like there are hundreds of hours of voice acted gameplay, numerous different story arcs. I mean hundreds of hours worth of game play pffft. Who cares? Nevermind the hundreds of unique dungeons with mini story lines and awesome locations and masterfully crafted geography.

The game is nothing short of technological genius do you know how much stuff there is crammed into that game?

Sorry if a team of a few hundred devs didn't have time to make all the quests works of art they had to create A SMALL CONTINENT

Do you know how hard it is to make games? Do you know how hard it is to make games during an economic crisis where devs are understaffed, have publishers breathing down their necks and have a time limit in which to create what has to be considered a small masterpiece just to turn a profit?

Do you know how hard it must have been to meet player expectations after creating one of the most forward thinking, technologically advanced game series of all time?

The game has flaws sorry it isn't perfect, if you don't enjoy it fine, but people need to stop making threads calling it out everyday because the devs didn't get it quite the way they like it, games are subjective so yeah

Skyrim is still a feat of gaming genius even if it does have some glaringly large flaws, I appreciate it for what it is and have enjoyed playing it despite them.

There is no "lost generation" of awesome games. Some games are good some suck. end of. Devs have different parameters to work within now, high risk industry coupled with increasing demand for technological innovation. We've pretty much done everything and it's getting harder to come up with new material.

You won't have me arguing that Skyrim isn't an example of TECHNOLOGICAL genius (even though Morrowind is probably larger...spatially).

You make it sound as if I have been disrespectful towards the developers for criticizing their game on the point of ROLEPLAYING. Of course people can enjoy games despite their flaws, but wouldn't people also want to see progress? Perfection may be unattainable, but a good game can be made better; there is room for improvement. And where Skyrim could've been better is in the roleplaying department.

My point kinda was they were hella busy and probs making a vast open ended world with hundreds of dungeons and locations and npcs and didn't have time to script every npc to notice every action you do, the guards probs notice the most, when I had molag's mace he was all like "get that mace away from me"

on the flipside they spout a line for every skill thats about 50.

Skyrim made lots of progress, it made all the dungeons hand crafted, no cookie cutting, It made all, even the most minor npcs voice acted, more voice acting than even the mass effect games, it has more readable lore books than any competing rpg I've played in recent years, it has allows you completely carve a class that you wish to play. All in first person 3D sandbox style with good graphics.

The amount of time and labour it must have taken to make such a vast technological, marvel is incomprehensible and yet many people don't offer constructive criticism but complain that it isn't exactly how they want it or it isn't perfect it just seems like some people want the world.

yeah the lack of context given to the npcs annoys me a little too but hey, it's inevitable when you have to make games on a budget.

In my eyes the game clearly deserves a 90/100 because it's excellent, it's not perfect we've established this in about 50 other threads.

 

[Hides His Eyes]

well its not like you can take hours running from one side of the map to the other or something, it's not like there are hundreds of hours of voice acted gameplay, numerous different story arcs. I mean hundreds of hours worth of game play pffft. Who cares? Nevermind the hundreds of unique dungeons with mini story lines and awesome locations and masterfully crafted geography.

The game is nothing short of technological genius do you know how much stuff there is crammed into that game?

Sorry if a team of a few hundred devs didn't have time to make all the quests works of art they had to create A SMALL CONTINENT

Do you know how hard it is to make games? Do you know how hard it is to make games during an economic crisis where devs are understaffed, have publishers breathing down their necks and have a time limit in which to create what has to be considered a small masterpiece just to turn a profit?

Do you know how hard it must have been to meet player expectations after creating one of the most forward thinking, technologically advanced game series of all time?

The game has flaws sorry it isn't perfect, if you don't enjoy it fine, but people need to stop making threads calling it out everyday because the devs didn't get it quite the way they like it, games are subjective so yeah

Skyrim is still a feat of gaming genius even if it does have some glaringly large flaws, I appreciate it for what it is and have enjoyed playing it despite them.

There is no "lost generation" of awesome games. Some games are good some suck. end of. Devs have different parameters to work within now, high risk industry coupled with increasing demand for technological innovation. We've pretty much done everything and it's getting harder to come up with new material.

You won't have me arguing that Skyrim isn't an example of TECHNOLOGICAL genius (even though Morrowind is probably larger...spatially).

You make it sound as if I have been disrespectful towards the developers for criticizing their game on the point of ROLEPLAYING. Of course people can enjoy games despite their flaws, but wouldn't people also want to see progress? Perfection may be unattainable, but a good game can be made better; there is room for improvement. And where Skyrim could've been better is in the roleplaying department.

My point kinda was they were hella busy and probs making a vast open ended world with hundreds of dungeons and locations and npcs and didn't have time to script every npc to notice every action you do, the guards probs notice the most, when I had molag's mace he was all like "get that mace away from me"

on the flipside they spout a line for every skill thats about 50.

Skyrim made lots of progress, it made all the dungeons hand crafted, no cookie cutting, It made all, even the most minor npcs voice acted, more voice acting than even the mass effect games, it has more readable lore books than any competing rpg I've played in recent years, it has allows you completely carve a class that you wish to play. All in first person 3D sandbox style with good graphics.

The amount of time and labour it must have taken to make such a vast technological, marvel is incomprehensible and yet many people don't offer constructive criticism but complain that it isn't exactly how they want it or it isn't perfect it just seems like some people want the world.

yeah the lack of context given to the npcs annoys me a little too but hey, it's inevitable when you have to make games on a budget.

In my eyes the game clearly deserves a 90/100 because it's excellent, it's not perfect we've established this in about 50 other threads.

Thanks! You're talking sense.

I think there is often a tendency to adjust one's expectations when encountering a really good game, especially once you've been playing it for a while. After a hundred hours playing Skyrim you start to take for granted the minor miracle that such a huge, open-ended, detailed world exists in the first place, and start noticing what's wrong with it. To be an even-handed critic you really should try to combat this.