The decline of *Hardcore* gaming

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OnceandFutureGamer

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May 11, 2009
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The more I read about the next big game the more I hear about its amazing graphics first and the suspected gameplay last, I find myself stuck in a sort of...nostalgic mood that I'll explain further.

Remember in the *Good ole days* when sega was still a console giant and nintendo wasn't pumping out gimmicky motion sensor games. Remember when microsoft never crossed your minds and sony made those tvs you played all your games on? I certaintly do and I miss those days terribly. But enough reminiscing lets get to the topic at hand.

I grew up with games that were terribly frustrating, for example the marios. Some levels you would have to redo over and over just to memorize exactly when to jump and when exactly that flying koopa stopped low enough to get the right bounce to NOT hit that invisible block and the inevitable death that quickly followed. It was frustrating and caused more high blood pressure in young kids than Mcdonalds.

How about metriod? Well the first metriod is a perfect example right from the get go *you beam in, you look to your left and then to your right, you head left and see a shining ball sitting on a platform you jump and get it. Anyone remembers what happened next? A little music played so it was obviously good...but what did it do! There was no extensive reading on how it can be used properly you just had to figure it out and we loved that.

And those are just two examples in an extensive list of games that all stand out in thier own way. Now before anyone says well what about this new game, or this one? I want to point to the way of the title this is a Decline not a barren wasteland of hard games.

It just seems to me that there was a point in time where game developers decided that great graphics and flashy particle effect were more important then basic elements such as difficulty, longevity and originality. For example, the Resident evil 5, the first time I played through on professional i beat the game in under 5 hours earning myself the infinite rocket launcher...wait what...AN INFINITE, RAPID FIRE, ROCKET LAUNCHER....and it does indeed kill most of the games hardest bosses in one or two shots even wesker with a clever distraction goes down so fast you'd have lagged and missed it. and above all else, above anything I earned it on accident with a freind.

So lets start the thread part of this, lets hear yalls old school or new school hardcore gaming experiences, lets hear about the screaming frustration and laugh. Because I know personally my controllers spent 90% of thier life airborn, and thats a fact I'm proud of
 

D_987

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Jun 15, 2008
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Games weren't any harder back then - they were just often poorly designed.
 

OnceandFutureGamer

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Poorly designed? sure of the hundreds and hundreds (and thats an under statement) there were the general riff raff but your telling me that the hundreds of classics were hard bc they were poorly designed? just bc the code and bit id different doesn't take from the genuis and the instant classic mood of it.

Take a look at some games then post here, wanna talk poorly designed take a look at more current games then reference.

And really all that was suppliment for the question which wasn't answered.
 

Wargamer

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D_987 said:
Games weren't any harder back then - they were just often poorly designed.
On behalf of everyone who ever played any Console pre-Playstation...

*ahem*

BULL! SHIT!

I've played a lot of old games, and they fucking cane me! I've completed FF7, 9 and 10, but the originals shit me up something fierce! FF1 is the most brutal RPG I have ever played, with the difficulty curve going near-vertical within about two hours and staying that way until you curl up behind the sofa and cry yourself to sleep.

Older games are harder, because many of them were made in the Arcade Era; you were meant to die an insane number of times so you'd have to put more money in the machine. Sometimes the home version was 'toned down' so you had a hope in hell of beating it, but other times it wasn't (Total Carnage, much?).

Hell, my friend and I played Alien Storm on the Megadrive Collection. Together, we massacred our way through Resistance: Fall of Man without much trouble, yet he was down and out by the second boss of Alien Storm, and I wasn't far behind. I can't even beat the Golden Axe games anymore...

I think games were harder. Easy games are easier to sell, but I defy you to play through the likes of R-Type and then say with a straight face that old games are easier.
 

D_987

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Wargamer said:
D_987 said:
Games weren't any harder back then - they were just often poorly designed.
On behalf of everyone who ever played any Console pre-Playstation...

*ahem*

BULL! SHIT!

I've played a lot of old games, and they fucking cane me! I've completed FF7, 9 and 10, but the originals shit me up something fierce! FF1 is the most brutal RPG I have ever played, with the difficulty curve going near-vertical within about two hours and staying that way until you curl up behind the sofa and cry yourself to sleep.

Older games are harder, because many of them were made in the Arcade Era; you were meant to die an insane number of times so you'd have to put more money in the machine. Sometimes the home version was 'toned down' so you had a hope in hell of beating it, but other times it wasn't (Total Carnage, much?).

Hell, my friend and I played Alien Storm on the Megadrive Collection. Together, we massacred our way through Resistance: Fall of Man without much trouble, yet he was down and out by the second boss of Alien Storm, and I wasn't far behind. I can't even beat the Golden Axe games anymore...

I think games were harder. Easy games are easier to sell, but I defy you to play through the likes of R-Type and then say with a straight face that old games are easier.
Actually I have beaten R-type and Golden Axe...

Difficulty is subjective, I was thinking more of the games on the old Atari systems in which invisible blocks or platforms you needed to perform an act so specific nobody would know what to do - was not unheard off.
 

OnceandFutureGamer

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Bravo!

*standong ovation*

You understand the point of the thread good sir, i want to have the odds agianst me not walk into a room full of enemies and kill them all without breaking a sweat, i want to cringe and cuss, those were the days.

I loved r-type by the way, perfect example of a *hardcore* game, i spent hours and hours perfecting my technique and still found myself wanting.
 

Pengowen

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I agree with all of what you said. People like us have literally grown with our games. We've seen Mario become 3D and our Space Invaders attack us in HI def.

Games were harder because of the lack of experience designers had. And now we have games that do too much for us and forget to let us have a turn to play.
 

OnceandFutureGamer

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But figuring that out was part of the fun, back then no one knew what they were doing, the developers knew they had something and didn't know what to do with it, and if u know anything about gaming history and mistakes gaming hit a HUGE decline in those days, technology and families were not ready for that yet and when it was it was huge.

lets stick with the golden age of gaming were developers finally figured out how to do it right.
 

MusicalFreedom

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Games nowadays seem to be a lot more casual than they used to be. You've got your Halos, your Fallout3s, your Rainbow Six Vegases, your Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighters, all of these games are really casual compared to how games used to be. Sure, they ain't Bejeweled, but they ain't Daggerfall, Nethack, whatever.

Even the simplest games of the old days seem to be more "hardcore" than games nowadays. I would say that Doom is more "hardcore" than Halo, because it is designed differently. Doom is entirely about the gameplay, and even though it's piss easy on all difficulties but the hardest, it still has longevity. Enough longevity that I still play it today.

Mainstream gaming is just worse today than it used to be. Demographics have changed, and I think that this has weakened modern games. It's about appealing to everyone.

ps please don't just go "bump", that is a little bit bad
 

OnceandFutureGamer

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It was more of a past to future refernece, than anything.

dedicated gamers number in the millions, games for alot of ppl have become a litteral profession taking to the stage and earning money for it.

that may have been a bit broad, I know a ton of ppl who grind and grind and grind to get a mount in WoW, i see ppl setting up ranked matches just for another rank spot in Uno, there are dedicated gamers out there but u don't have to be truly dedicated to play and master a game, a few hours a night was all i had when i was a kid and i still beat games that are on the list of some of the hardest made, it just took forever.

and thats what i like, forever for the end result.
 

Pengowen

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Arcade side-scrollers!! Now that's some good old time fun!

Knights of the Round, Streets of Rage, Final Fight, Golden Axe, ect.
Figuring out the combos and basic moves were all part of the fun.

Not a great example of how awesome games use to be, but think back to when you could beat them in just a few quarters...Think back to when you even went to an arcade! XD
 

SenseOfTumour

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Of course we need to remember a vast amount of old games were stuck in the 'arcade' mindset, designed to rob you of your cash as quickly as possible, which is why there were just things as lives and continues in the first place, along with 'leaps of faith', and respawn points way too far apart.

Not knocking older games, I've got a lot of love for many of them, but we've moved on, and most people don't play games to get angry and smash their joypads any more :D
 

suicidal pencil

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May 3, 2009
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*sigh* I long for the days where I could kill 8 hours staring into my monitor, yelling at the top of my lungs. I miss difficulty :(
 

Pengowen

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Some of then were cash robbers for certain. But the allure and charm will never fade for this arcade rat.
 

Inco

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It was made that way to warrant the price of the game, whereas nowadays they shall not worry with some games because it aint the difficulty of the game that sells, but the multi player, which is irrelevant (bar something like Horde and crap like that)

Just think of Left for deads survival mode, where it can last for only 2-4 mins for the skilless. It hasn't declined, just had the meaning kinda twisted- like i mean by those damn 12 year olds online (any online place) claiming that they are hardcore and gangsta and will p0wn your ass and end up looking like one when they prove to everyone that they suck.

If your definition of hardcore is the 'notoriously difficult games completion person', then i claim that i am one because i can boast that i beat all of starcraft's 6 campaigns in 5 days. But apart from those massive gameplay sessions i only put in a hour a day or so, which is not hardcore under some other peoples hardcore definitions.
 

OnceandFutureGamer

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SenseOfTumour said:
Of course we need to remember a vast amount of old games were stuck in the 'arcade' mindset, designed to rob you of your cash as quickly as possible, which is why there were just things as lives and continues in the first place, along with 'leaps of faith', and respawn points way too far apart.

Not knocking older games, I've got a lot of love for many of them, but we've moved on, and most people don't play games to get angry and smash their joypads any more :D
Think of it as the first book in a series, yes the new ones are a little bit edgier and longer..but its that first book the old tome in the back that really shines above all else. Gaming was indeed better back in the day IMO, not saying it isn't great now, i have played a plethora of games and enjoyed most but i love very few. I love most of my nintendo and sega games with a passion, Becuase thay had passion as well.

But i love bioshock...man do i love that game
 

Nifty

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Tetris. When I was wee, Tetris to me was like numbers to Rainman. I used to be able to easily get to level 20 and carry on at that level for what seemed like hours. A few months ago I found my old Gameboy with Tetris still in it and I thought "I'm bigger, faster, stronger and smarter, I can get to level 20 even quicker now!". I think I got slaughtered by level 3. :<