The decline of *Hardcore* gaming

[Iwamori]

I think the fundamental point here is that games are supposed to be fun, I know that FINALLY beating that incredibly hard segment you spent hours and hours on over days was rewarding as you finally beat the cloud of 1s and 0s at its own game but... I personally would rather be having fun the whole time, not be frustrated out of my mind. What you see as games getting more casual I see as games getting more jump in friendly. You can pick up your controller for an hour and have some fun, assuming you're an adult with things in your real life to do that can't dedicate an entire day to beating one level of mario anymore, I think this is a logical step forward.

If you want hardcore, you play older pc fps games, Q3A + QL + Cs 1.6 + Css + CoD4, and you play in tournies and stuff.

 

[Zacharine]

The lowest common denominator has indeed struck game difficulty to the low-end of the spectrum. The fact that people put limiters to their own gameplay (I shall not use any potions, I shall not wear any armour and shall use only non-damaging spells....) tells something about the difficulty of those games. In my consideration, if a fully priced game is over in less than 30 hours, it was too easy. And if it got over that 30h limit just because you're forced to grind etc then it was a bit poorly designed. Really, how many players these days hate Nethack, because it doesn't reward them instantly here and now the first time they play it?

Do you remember the golden times with Commoder 64 when you might wait for half an hour for a game to just load from a casette? After that, you didn't stop playing after 5 minutes unless you had to. You pushed forwards, you overcame the obstacles and when you finally beat the game despite the complexity curve (after tens of hours of gaming) you could go out and say 'I did it!', feeling like you were on top of the world.

Where is that feeling these days? It's hiding behind strategy guides, cheat codes, trainer programs, difficulty curve that might make a five-year-old stop for 10 minutes before beating it and the ultra-realistic graphics that make you watch in awe for a minute and then leaves you wondering 'This was the game? Why didn't I buy a photoalbum?'

That's why I love Galactic Civilizations 2: The AI playes by the exact same rules as you do (it doesn't cheat) and if you crank the difficulty up you will get totally pwned within the first 20 minutes. Unless, of course, you're pretty damn awesome yourself.

Challenges are fun. If I want to have fun without challenges, I'll go watch a movie or buy a book instead of playing a game. Really, those a cheaper, they last about as long as apoor game and you don't feel like someone cheated you out of your money if you don't like them.

 

[Quickening666]

Do you remember the golden times with Commoder 64 when you might wait for half an hour for a game to just load from a casette? After that, you didn't stop playing after 5 minutes unless you had to. You pushed forwards, you overcame the obstacles and when you finally beat the game despite the complexity curve (after tens of hours of gaming) you could go out and say 'I did it!', feeling like you were on top of the world.

I remember my days with The Last Ninja 2. About five minutes of loading time for around two minutes of play before I failed another awkward jump and had to wait for it to load again. I'd swear those games developed patience in me because as a kid I honestly didn't care about the wait I was having so much fun.

That's why I love Galactic Civilizations 2: The AI playes by the exact same rules as you do (it doesn't cheat) and if you crank the difficulty up you will get totally pwned within the first 20 minutes. Unless, of course, you're pretty damn awesome yourself.

It's funny you mention that. I bought the original game and Dark Avatar and recently reinstalled them in yet another attempt to get involved in them. Theoretically, it should be my ideal game. But what really angers me is that doing anything else but being a warlike race seems pointless. If you try to go for a peaceful victory type someone WILL come and destroy you. So no matter what you always have to have a competitive military, but since you have one, you may as well use it to win so I just feel irritated and like I've wasted my time.

 

[ryai458]

Commercilaztion(sp) very few people can play hardcore games your basic 13 year old halo 3 child cant play a hardcore game and they wont want it but they are the people how badger their parents enough to buy them. If people dont buy the game then its not worth millions to make it.

 

[cathou]

yes, games in the old days were more difficult.

the best exemple to that is to take a mega man collection game, and play each megaman in order to realise that megaman 8 is way more easy than megaman 1 (which had an insane difficulty level)...

 

[OnceandFutureGamer]

It seems what it all comes down to is, basic consumer needs and wants, to bad most of the gamers I know arn't basic. catering to the regs and all...

Idk what else to say other than post some frustrating and blindingly furious gaming moments new and old, got a particular fight on halo u want to describe with excrutiating detail go ahead, or maybe just you screamin about *i want to be the guy* (beat it once...never will agian)

 

[Arch_nemesis1906]

God the days of screaming at Goldeneye were classic!

 

[tenlong]

i remember back in the day playing vector man, streets of rage,golden axe,revenge of shinobi to name a few. when i was kid playing them. i died so many times. i only could get a few games at a time . so i had to play the game till it was burnt into my brain. when you finally won it was so satisifing .

 

[insanelich]

The gaming audience increased in size - substantially - and some companies cater to this new demographic. Some try to make products appealing to both and a few make exclusively old school games.

Hardcore gaming hasn't declined - not even close. Instead, gaming has expanded as a concept. There's plenty of room for easy, hard, casual and time-consuming games.

Want some newer really hard games?

Try any STALKER game, any X game (X3: Terran Conflict is the latest), L4D on Expert, Galactic Civilizations games... sure, they're less popular than games like Halo or Gears of War, but frankly, there's a reason they're less popular.

It's a pretty solid guess that when someone mentions how hardcore games are declining that they spend more time whining about it as opposed to observing the situation or something like, say, gaming.

 

[Bat Vader]

Playing Super Mario Bros. for the SNES. I could never get past a certain bridge with flying fish. No matter how many times I tried I kept dying. I did eventually beat it but a day later my mom sent my SNES to the Salvation Army.

 

[megapenguinx]

I'm with D on this one, games were harder back in the olden days because of poor design and limitations of the hardware.

 

[BlueInkAlchemist]

Spoiler: I can't believe nobody's mentioned this yet.

 

[Twilight_guy]

Ugh, first of all your definition of a "hardcore" games is wrong. a "hardcore" game is generally considered to be a game that people who play a lot of games would play. There gamers' games as opposed to say Popcap games for a more casual audience.

Second of all, games have evolved. They were exceedingly hard quarter eaters in arcades. Then they were basically home versions of that and it was a real achievement just to beat them. Now a-days videogames are (to quote my level design teacher) an "entertainment experience." Its not about grinding away in frustration just to win the game(which was practically impossible), its about letting people experience something (in the way a movie or book does). Games are less difficult because its not about getting to the end, its about experiencing the game as a whole. Rather then a game where "save the princess" sums up the whole story, nowadays there are complex and multidimensional stories. Making progress impossible in such games only frustrates people who want to see what happens but don't want to grind away at a level until muscle memory gets them through. This is reflected in the fact that games now have a "Disneyland approach" (Slow and linear introduction to a game followed by gradually introduction to more complex options and ability to choose paths) as opposed to "let's-drop-this-guy-in-and-let-him-die-a-few-hundred-times-until-he-gets-it" approach. Just look at tutorial levels, game didn't used to have tutorial levels, now they do because of the structure and because games are much more complex. Rather then having the options of move and jump and that's it, there are laundry lists of moves available to you and a brief hand-holding section is necessary so the player doesn't get lost and frustrated.
Games have changed from grind and sheer challenge to a focus on overall design, play, and story. Sure that means that they are less difficult, but in exchange they offer more.

Also, interfaces in the old days were more crude(that's a problem I have that keeps me from playing many old games). That made games inherently harder.

If you want the sheer difficulty of old games, you're out of luck most of the time, the current audience is used to a slightly easier game and making games the old way will just frustrate and enrage a large part of the current audience.

On topic, the hardest games I've ever played are old Mario games (I'm terrible at ever non3-d Mario platformer) and the original Legend of Zelda.

 

[Sea Age]

I personally would rather be having fun the whole time, not be frustrated out of my mind.

This. I'd love to pretend I like what you call "hardcore gaming", but I don't think it's funny dying again, and again, and again, etc. When you've finally made it, sure, that's awesome. But, if it's not fun while doing it, it's seems pointless to me.

Of course, I would prefer a harder difficulty, or at least the option to go through the game with one. I remember going through RE5 on the hardest difficulty, and when I had gone past the first level, it was basically... Piss easy overall.

There are of course ways of making a game funny even though you die several times, and it's in these instances I will agree with you. But, in conclusion, I won't worry too much yet, although there might be reason to.

Spoiler: I can't believe nobody's mentioned this yet.

Yeah, thought about that when reading through here... Now I don't have to mention it.

 

[veloper]

Arcade games were only hard because they relied on fast hand-eye coordination and memorizing the levels.

That's simply not the kind of challenge I'm looking for. I want strategy and tactics.

 

[OnceandFutureGamer]

it seems ppl have skewed what a hardcore game is...I'm not talking deaths to the ridiculous degree but games that are hard...at all. Mario was hard, was it impossible no but it was hard and took practice, now u could take it even more hard and play the lost levels...those would be hardcore. R-type was impossibly hard but does so well even ppl born out of that generation knows about it.

I'm not saying it takes banging agianst the head frustration to make a good game but difficulty, a frustrating wasll of difficulty curve that u master instead of not even noticing.

And to top it all off game length was replaced by graphics, and story replaced by particle effect (wow that fire looks amazing...but why is it there). Now i have not said and agian i'll say it *that hardcore games no longer exist* there are still hard games out there, what i have observed however is pointing in the direction of decline. I would really not want my FF's and my proper fps's die i9n a wave of mediocrity and flashy graphics.

Please understand i never said hard games didn't exist lol

 

[OnceandFutureGamer]

The gaming audience increased in size - substantially - and some companies cater to this new demographic. Some try to make products appealing to both and a few make exclusively old school games.

Hardcore gaming hasn't declined - not even close. Instead, gaming has expanded as a concept. There's plenty of room for easy, hard, casual and time-consuming games.

Want some newer really hard games?

Try any STALKER game, any X game (X3: Terran Conflict is the latest), L4D on Expert, Galactic Civilizations games... sure, they're less popular than games like Halo or Gears of War, but frankly, there's a reason they're less popular.

It's a pretty solid guess that when someone mentions how hardcore games are declining that they spend more time whining about it as opposed to observing the situation or something like, say, gaming.

Its funny how u mention games i have and have indeed beaten, now l4d is an exception on expert it is absolutly impossible without good base strategy and planning. HOWEVER u seem to have missed what decline means. I have spent years observing the genral market and even participating in it, listning to promises and such and seeing an end result that lacked. its nigh impossible to give a good example of what i mean and put it in present terms, the past was harder.

And not due to graphical issues or anything of that sort, its bc the developers tried harder, the indusrty for the most part has gotten lazy in its time. Nintendo being a perfect example of this.

I have observed, i have come to a conclusion and it seems many agree and disagree, i am not whining i am making a point. But its ok. You tried