The difference of isms.

[wulf3n]

One you judge for a fashion choice, the other you judge for the amount of melanin in their skin.

Ultimately you're not judging your assuming, and you're assuming based on previous experience.

Besides you're very naive if you think the only difference between a white person and a black person is melanin.

edit:

And you really didn't explain the difference between assumptions from choice and no choice.

All you did was say ones justified and another isn't.

 

[chikusho]

snip

Making jokes are one thing.

Using derogatory statements implying weakness or lesser value towards gender, race or sexuality based on insulting imagery and stereotypes rooted in a long heritage of oppression and hate is another. That thing is called being a sexist, racist or homophobe. Or any combination of the three.

Also, you are seriously deluded if you think sexism is just about hatred and anger towards the other gender.

Besides you're very naive if you think the only difference between a white person and a black person is melanin.

... Pray tell.. What are some of the other differences you're referring to here?

 

[wulf3n]

Besides you're very naive if you think the only difference between a white person and a black person is melanin.

... Pray tell.. What are some of the other differences you're referring to here?

After thousands of years of evolution within completely different environments there's bound to be many genetic differences.

Skin colour is just one of the mechanisms developed for survival in said environment.

 

[chikusho]

After thousands of years of evolution within completely different environments there's bound to be many genetic differences.

Skin colour is just one of the mechanisms developed for survival in said environment.

Um.. No, there's not. There doesn't exist enough genetic differences in humans for a "race" to even exist. Most genetic variation is individual and completely irrelevant to skin color.

 

[wulf3n]

After thousands of years of evolution within completely different environments there's bound to be many genetic differences.

Skin colour is just one of the mechanisms developed for survival in said environment.

Um.. No, there's not. There doesn't exist enough genetic differences in humans for a "race" to even exist. Most genetic variation is individual and completely irrelevant to skin color.

So you're saying the only difference between races is skin colour?

If you were to say the only differences are appearance related, I may have agreed with you, but you're going to need something more than "Um.. No" if you're going to sway me on that.

edit:

Besides I'm not really sure what you're trying to say.

Most genetic variation is individual and completely irrelevant to skin color."

Does that mean skin color is not a genetic difference?

and Most, that implies there's genetic variation that isn't individual, which is kind of arguing my speculation.

There doesn't exist enough genetic differences in humans for a "race" to even exist

Then how do races exist? There must exist enough common genetic differences for us to actually have racial distinctions.

 

[The-Traveling-Bard]

snip

Making jokes are one thing.

Using derogatory statements implying weakness or lesser value towards gender, race or sexuality based on insulting imagery and stereotypes rooted in a long heritage of oppression and hate is another. That thing is called being a sexist, racist or homophobe. Or any combination of the three.

Also, you are seriously deluded if you think sexism is just about hatred and anger towards the other gender.

Besides you're very naive if you think the only difference between a white person and a black person is melanin.

... Pray tell.. What are some of the other differences you're referring to here?

And do making derogatory statements actually mean your sexist?
No it fucking doesn't.

I make sexist/racist statements all the time, but I still believe everyone should be treated equally.

My point is just because someone says something sexist doesn't they actually fucking believe it.

If you can't separate the two and just clump everyone together because you want to be morally right is idiotic.

 

[wulf3n]

If you aren't getting it, I don't know that anything I can say will illuminate the issue.

I get that there's a difference, I just don't see how that difference has any bearing on an assumption.

Given what you've said I don't think you do either.

And I don't think the only difference between black and white people is melanin, but you're very ignorant if you think those other differences justify labeling one as more athletic without knowing more about the people.

You keep using buzz words like "label" and "judge" as if they actually mean something here.

I'm talking about assumptions based on ones potentially limited knowledge, and how it's only considered bad in certain situations.

I even gave you an example that wasn't choice related, but instead of arguing that you've gone off on a tangent about Judging people based on the colour of their skin.

 

[wulf3n]

And assumptions based on what a person is, as opposed to what their choices are, are bad because they are baseless. Can you provide me an example to the opposite effect?

I already have which you seem to keep ignoring.


Someone assumes that a white american with a southern accent likes Nascar.

Does that make them a bad person?

Another closer to my home.

As an Australian living in Victoria, anyone outside of Victoria assumes that I like AFL over NRL, does that make them bad people?

 

[wulf3n]

I would say yes. Why is it not bad to hold baseless assumptions? Especially ones that will make you look like an ignorant dipshit if they turn out incorrect?

How do you know they're baseless?

For all you know everyone with a southern accent the Assumer knows likes Nascar.

For the Victorian liking AFL it's a pretty safe bet that it's true.

You must be an especially hateful person to think someone's an "ignorant dipshit" because they thought you like a sport based on where you're from.

 

[michael87cn]

Strength of character is a choice one makes internally at some point in their lives. It is not something that is beaten into you by abuse. (Bullying)

Abused individuals often suffer, and become weak, afraid, cowardly, etc. It's a side effect of the evil inflicted on them.

Your lack of compassion shown in this thread on the first page (OP), shows me just how weak your character is. You demand, and expect a great deal from others (bravery, courage, "thick skin" in the face of provocation (bullying)) but yet you display a myriad of extremely weak character flaws.

Good men do not provoke, neither do they become provoked. Nor are we quick to anger and violence. We don't wear pride around our necks and we don't associate ourselves with fools who would provoke us to begin with. Wisdom is a tool to prevent pain and suffering of all kinds.

Real or not, these things should not be said. 'ist' or not, they should not be said. You should not have such a filthy tongue that you need to even joke about belittling women. You talk a lot about growing up... atleast on the first page (about all I could stand to read) but you seem still very much steeped in the mindset of a teenage male.

 

[michael87cn]

Often times I like to be a very happy and upbeat person on these forums, but sometimes you read these kind of extremely dark posts and you remember just how wicked humanity can be.

 

[wulf3n]

I would say yes. Why is it not bad to hold baseless assumptions? Especially ones that will make you look like an ignorant dipshit if they turn out incorrect?

How do you know they're baseless?

For all you know everyone with a southern accent the Assumer knows likes Nascar.

For the Victorian liking AFL it's a pretty safe bet that it's true.

You must be an especially hateful person to think someone's an "ignorant dipshit" because they thought you like a sport based on where you're from.

And you must be exceptionally prejudiced if you think it's okay to make those kinds of assumptions.

Yep, I'm very prejudiced because I think people from Queensland like NRL.

 

[Lionsfan]

Seriously Escapist.

Pardon me, but is that in reference to the OP or the site? Because I can assure you that they do not speak for anyone but himself/herself. He's just one man/lady/muppet/potato/etc. Anyway, back on topic. It's absolutely fine to make jokes among friends. Traveling-Bard, that kind of logic doesn't quite work on the internet. Tone is very difficult to get across. And everyone reads it differently. Statements are taken at face value.

Sure this guy only speaks for himself, but lately there's been a pretty clear anti-female trend from a lot of posters on the Escapist

ive been noticing an exact opposite trend, as evident with how rarely people gang up on a female poster regardless of the topic or what they said. Granted, I assume it was meant as a joke, but once again people usually take things seriously, and it wasn't this time.

The only female poster whom I saw the forum gang up on in the two years ive been here was gunsmithkitten during her....expose....on japan. And even that was extremely light compared to equivalent offenses by male posters.

not going to point fingers, but recently we had a female poster make a scathing post in a...controversial topic that would make even sexist old men slack-jawed...or pop a boner im not sure which one. Not a single damn thing was said.

I'm not saying that people are ganging up on female posters, but a vast majority of posters are attacking females in general. There's a lot of women hate on here right now, even if it's not confined to attacking specific posters

Well there is obviously a lot of tension/hate/criticism regarding feminism (Anita being the easiest example), but there is a lot of hate in the other directions too on here.

This is just a personal opinion, mind you, but it seems like this is due to moderates basically giving up the fight. All it takes is one sexist (or more precisely a sexist comment) from either side to turn any gender topic into a war. It seems like a daunting task lately to have any kind of critic about gender that doesnt either turn into a war or an echo chamber, neither of which accomplishes anything. You cant make a criticism about men, women, feminism, or whatever without it turning into a spat. At least on the internet, real life is a little different, probably because context is easier to get across.

I don't think I've seen a lot of male hate on here, at least not the kind you're referring to. But I do agree that it seems like the mods are just giving up on it.

I mean every now and again maybe some post will get a warning, but it seems rare. Not to mention the CoC is very very vague, with the only tangible rule being "Don't Be A Jerk", and when people have asked for clarification about sexist comments and where to draw the line, the Mods/Staff have just responded by reiterating the CoC and saying "everything is covered there, don't worry about it".

 

[ThreeName]

Yep, I'm very prejudiced because I think people from Queensland like NRL.

HOW DARE YOU, YOU BASTARD

What do you mean assumptions can be based on statistical likelihoods? You take that back right now!

 

[chikusho]

Then how do races exist? There must exist enough common genetic differences for us to actually have racial distinctions.

They don't. "Race" is a social construct.
[link]http://www.realfuture.org/GIST/Readings/Templeton%281998%29.pdf[/link]

Using derogatory statements implying weakness or lesser value towards gender, race or sexuality based on insulting imagery and stereotypes rooted in a long heritage of oppression and hate is another. That thing is called being a sexist, racist or homophobe. Or any combination of the three.

Also, you are seriously deluded if you think sexism is just about hatred and anger towards the other gender.

And do making derogatory statements actually mean your sexist?
No it fucking doesn't.

I make sexist/racist statements all the time, but I still believe everyone should be treated equally.

My point is just because someone says something sexist doesn't they actually fucking believe it.

If you can't separate the two and just clump everyone together because you want to be morally right is idiotic.

Making derogatory statements doesn't mean you're sexist, but please read beyond the first 3 words in that sentence before replying next time.

My point is that you are not treating everyone equally when you are perpetuating the notion that one gender is inherently weaker, less valuable, less capable and should conform to your expectations.
If you don't realize that, then yes, you are sexist.

Your lack of compassion shown in this thread on the first page (OP), shows me just how weak your character is. You demand, and expect a great deal from others (bravery, courage, "thick skin" in the face of provocation (bullying)) but yet you display a myriad of extremely weak character flaws.

Good men do not provoke, neither do they become provoked. Nor are we quick to anger and violence. We don't wear pride around our necks and we don't associate ourselves with fools who would provoke us to begin with. Wisdom is a tool to prevent pain and suffering of all kinds.

Real or not, these things should not be said. 'ist' or not, they should not be said. You should not have such a filthy tongue that you need to even joke about belittling women. You talk a lot about growing up... atleast on the first page (about all I could stand to read) but you seem still very much steeped in the mindset of a teenage male.

Co-sign.