The difference of isms.

[Korolev]

The problem is, I don't know your intentions. And when you say sexist or racists stuff, especially on the internet where your text does not portray a tone of voice, I am going to think you are sexist or racist. You see the problem? I don't know you. I read what you write. I have never met you personally. I don't know if you are "joking" or not. I can't see inside your heart, but I sure as hell can read what you write, and it sounds very similar to the stuff sexist and racist people write.... so.... I.... am going.... to associate... you with.... them. Did I say that slowly enough?

No?

Let me try again:

If....you.....act.....like.....a......sexist.......or.......a.......racist......people......who.....don't......know....you....are.....going....to....think......you.....are.....sexist......and.......racist.

Stop! Before you reply! Think.....Very.....Carefully......About....What......I.....Just.....Said.

 

[Mau95]

I actually don't really care about the topic, I just want to say that your picture makes this whole thing complete, OP.

Open Season
I guess that movie was alright, captcha.

 

[Use_Imagination_here]

Well isn't this a fun thread

I suppose it boils down to how much you're willing to risk hurting other people's feelings. But then again, no matter what you say there's always the chance that someone will be offended. Judge the audience, make sure that they understand that it's a joke.

And if you can't handle people being offended by a sexist joke, no matter how unoffensive you intended it to be, don't MAKE one. Grow a thicker skin goes both ways here.

You can't control other people's feelings. You can't control how they're gonna react, and you have no RIGHT to.

And if you're the one that's offended, well send an angry message, scowl at them a bit and get over it. Not really a whole lot more you CAN, or should do. In most situations anyway.

 

[Queen Michael]

That someone don't really mean the sexist things he says doesn't mean that the things in quesiton aren't sexist. Not to mention that if someone tells a sexist joke on the net then all you know about him is that he told a sexist joke, and that doesn't exactly indicate that he's not sexist.

Are these pages truly racist/sexist?

Yep, 'cause they express sexist/racist sentiments. That's what sexism is. A sexist opinion expressed by someone who doesn't mean it is still a sexist opinion.

Even facebook pages saying that "Girls deserve to be rape"[...]

Are these pages truly [...] sexist?

Um, yes? Yes yes yes. To say that "Girls deserve to be rape" is definitely sexist. Once again: You might not mean a sexist thing that you say, but it's still a sexist thing.

Remember sexist COMES FROM A HATRED/ANGER TOWARDS THE OPPOSITE GENDER.

No it doesn't. Some people think that women can't work on cars because they're genetically unsuited to that kind of work. That's not hatred or anger, it's just ignorance about women's competence, but it's still sexism. So sorry to have to say this, but you don't seem to know what the word "sexism" means. Also, you have way too strict rules to determine which sexism you consider to be "real" sexism.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

Oh what the fuck...

If you say assholish things we will assume your an asshole. If your humour is entirely comprised of assness then we will assume you are an ass. The isms only come in to classify what type of asshole you are.

Say a sexist joke, someone gets offended, that someone thinks your a sexist asshole. Replace sexism with any other context modifier and you will get the same result... an asshole. You see, YOU don't get to decided what people think of you.

Spoiler: This parts important

People will judge you based off of what they see of you, not what you see of yourself.

Simple, no?

Oh and the sweet fucking irony of you making a thread to say "I make sexist jokes..." followed by telling everybody else they should learn to not be offended cause' you shouldn't be seen as "less of a person" for your terrible sense of humour. What's wrong, you offended when someone calls you on your tasteless humour?

Listen and listen well. Everything you say and do in public spaces is judged by others. If you can't accept that (which evidently you can't) then perhaps you should back off from the internet.

Your weak sense of humour is not a shield from public scrutiny.

 

[Lionsfan]

Seriously Escapist.

Pardon me, but is that in reference to the OP or the site? Because I can assure you that they do not speak for anyone but himself/herself. He's just one man/lady/muppet/potato/etc. Anyway, back on topic. It's absolutely fine to make jokes among friends. Traveling-Bard, that kind of logic doesn't quite work on the internet. Tone is very difficult to get across. And everyone reads it differently. Statements are taken at face value.

Sure this guy only speaks for himself, but lately there's been a pretty clear anti-female trend from a lot of posters on the Escapist

ive been noticing an exact opposite trend, as evident with how rarely people gang up on a female poster regardless of the topic or what they said. Granted, I assume it was meant as a joke, but once again people usually take things seriously, and it wasn't this time.

The only female poster whom I saw the forum gang up on in the two years ive been here was gunsmithkitten during her....expose....on japan. And even that was extremely light compared to equivalent offenses by male posters.

not going to point fingers, but recently we had a female poster make a scathing post in a...controversial topic that would make even sexist old men slack-jawed...or pop a boner im not sure which one. Not a single damn thing was said.

I'm not saying that people are ganging up on female posters, but a vast majority of posters are attacking females in general. There's a lot of women hate on here right now, even if it's not confined to attacking specific posters

 

[Ryotknife]

Seriously Escapist.

Pardon me, but is that in reference to the OP or the site? Because I can assure you that they do not speak for anyone but himself/herself. He's just one man/lady/muppet/potato/etc. Anyway, back on topic. It's absolutely fine to make jokes among friends. Traveling-Bard, that kind of logic doesn't quite work on the internet. Tone is very difficult to get across. And everyone reads it differently. Statements are taken at face value.

Sure this guy only speaks for himself, but lately there's been a pretty clear anti-female trend from a lot of posters on the Escapist

ive been noticing an exact opposite trend, as evident with how rarely people gang up on a female poster regardless of the topic or what they said. Granted, I assume it was meant as a joke, but once again people usually take things seriously, and it wasn't this time.

The only female poster whom I saw the forum gang up on in the two years ive been here was gunsmithkitten during her....expose....on japan. And even that was extremely light compared to equivalent offenses by male posters.

not going to point fingers, but recently we had a female poster make a scathing post in a...controversial topic that would make even sexist old men slack-jawed...or pop a boner im not sure which one. Not a single damn thing was said.

I'm not saying that people are ganging up on female posters, but a vast majority of posters are attacking females in general. There's a lot of women hate on here right now, even if it's not confined to attacking specific posters

Well there is obviously a lot of tension/hate/criticism regarding feminism (Anita being the easiest example), but there is a lot of hate in the other directions too on here.

This is just a personal opinion, mind you, but it seems like this is due to moderates basically giving up the fight. All it takes is one sexist (or more precisely a sexist comment) from either side to turn any gender topic into a war. It seems like a daunting task lately to have any kind of critic about gender that doesnt either turn into a war or an echo chamber, neither of which accomplishes anything. You cant make a criticism about men, women, feminism, or whatever without it turning into a spat. At least on the internet, real life is a little different, probably because context is easier to get across.

 

[Quadocky]

If you're a female reading this. Get off the computer and get me a sandwich.

^ Now by that statement many people will label me as sexist.

But am I truly sexist?

Yes.

Even facebook pages saying that "Girls deserve to be rape" or other things like "All blacks are niggers"

Are these pages truly racist/sexist?

Oh yes.

are these pages driven by a desire to see a group of a certain community oppressed or this dickheads just being dickheads? Come on are you seriously telling me you can't tell the difference between a jerk and someone who is genuinely racism/sexist/whatever?

Its both.

A person making a sexist/racism/ mark does not mean they're sexist

It does.

I make sexist remarks all the time.
But that doesn't make a sexist. My remarks don't come from a deep anger/hatred from women it comes from because I have a difference sense of humor. And that does NOT make me less of a person.

In my opinion you have a terrible sense of humor. And you can be a better person by being less sexist.

If you want to fight against REAL sexism and REAL racism. Please fight against these people.

Oppression big or small is still oppression and a characterization of a much larger problem. It should be fought on all fronts.

Not some asshole who is being asshole for the sake of being a asshole.
I think this is why I have no respect for majority of feminist and equal rights fighters because at least on the internet.(Also in my experience) They seem to attack EVERYONE who even makes the slightest remark. Are you seriously going to tell me the real issue on sexism is some 14-16-18 year old making a sammich joke?

I think you should develop a much larger degree of introspection and understand why being an 'asshole' should not be appreciated in any case. A large degree of those people you speak of are not just 'immature' young people, many of them are in fact grown men, what is their excuse?

No. No. No. No.
Please grow up, and stop acting like anybody who makes even a slight sexist statement is a sexist person We live in a age where trolling is very wide spread and people will say horrible things because they can get away with it.

If you say horrible things expect a reprisal. Free Speech works both ways. I would argue that trolling is used as an excuse to say awful things without having to have your awful ideas demolished by more sensible people. All the while you can stand on a petty pile of self induce notion of grandeur while ACTUAL racists and or sexist read your words and nod their heads in agreement.

In fact.. my girlfriend actually just texted me this.
Me: Go cook it yourself.
Her: I can't! ;-;
Me: Why not? D:
Her: I like it on the grill. Grilling is a man's job!
... is she really being sexist, or is she just being a smartass?

She is expressing that she is worried that she could mess it up do to ineptness? The remark being a form of internalized patriarchal notions of cooking I guess?

Remember sexist COMES FROM A HATRED/ANGER TOWARDS THE OPPOSITE GENDER.
Did she say this out of hatred towards me?
No. She didn't.

Well yeah of course?

Learn some fucking context people and stop throwing words around like your throwing pennies in a wishing well.

Context is important. People seem to forget that its the people who say the awful things in the first place are the problem, not the people addressing them. You can say anything awful any not 'mean' it but it doesn't matter because its still an awful thing to say.

 

[maffro]

You're confused, I think.

Sexist is a state of being. Someone who is sexist/racist tends to pigeonhole people based on these attributes, gender/race, usually through negative generalisation, though not even necessarily negative. You may assume all blacks can run super fast, which is a racist generalisation, even though many would believe it's a positive assumption and supported by the predominance of god-tier black sprinters. And this doesn't have to mean hatred/anger, by the way. Plenty of people think other people are great, as long as they stick to what they're made to do.

-Ism, on the other hand, is employing and communicating these techniques. No, your girlfriend wasn't being sexist, but she was employing sexism to communicate a point. My secondary school was very diverse and integrated racially, and no-one had an issue employing racism for humourous effect, based on the shared knowledge that no-one was actually racIST. If you're employing racism/sexism anonymously, there's no reason for people not to assume you're racist/sexist in turn.

Depending on context, there's nothing inherently wrong with racism and sexism, though I'd have to say there was with being racist and being sexist, which are very distinct.

FINALLY, someone I can agree with who is not sitting on a high horse, looking down on people who don't agree with them. (This goes for both sides, just to be clear.)

You deserve a cookie. Which one do you want? Raspberry or blueberry?

Well obviously raspberry, that can't even be a serious question.

 

[TomPreston]

Please grow up, and stop acting like anybody who makes even a slight sexist statement is a sexist person.

Chances are if you unironically say something sexist, you are sexist.

We live in a age where trolling is very wide spread and people will say horrible things because they can get away with it.

That's not an excuse to let people get away with being dicks.

In fact.. my girlfriend actually just texted me this.
Me: Go cook it yourself.
Her: I can't! ;-;
Me: Why not? D:
Her: I like it on the grill. Grilling is a man's job!

Saying "my girlfriend is ok with it" doesn't excuse the fact that saying sexist things publicly is WRONG. That's like saying "I'm not racist because I have a black friend." That sort of logic doesn't add up.

 

[Sunrider]

Well obviously raspberry, that can't even be a serious question.

I like the blueberry ones =(

Oh well, I promised. Here you go!

 

[Ren_Li]

If someone makes, say, an offensive black joke in front of a person who knows them well and knows it is a joke and that they do not aspire to the thought processes behind the joke, and no other person, then that is okay.

If a person makes an offensive black joke in front of someone who could be hurt by that joke, or who might think that that person does aspire to the thought processes behind that joke, or who might think that person telling that joke makes their own racism okay, etc- then it is not okay.

Basically, it is only ever okay to tell racist, sexist, homophobic etc jokes in front of people who know you don't mean it and who are not hurt or affected by that joke and who do not view it as a way to prop up their own judgements. It's like talking about sex or your bowel movements in detail. It's common decency not to talk about highly intimate bodily functions in detail in front of anyone who may not be okay with hearing those details.
And if you are saying this stuff in front of people who may not be okay with hearing it- or people you don't know at all- then you're, at best, kind of a dick.
And maybe you're sexist, or racist, or whatever-ist or whatever-phobic, because you're saying those things without considering the affect it will have on those around you. And that affect can be profound- it can contribute to racism, sexism etc, or it can contribute to that group feeling persecuted. And it's an affect you've had simply because you had to make a joke without caring about the consequences.

And the fact that this needs to be explained to you sort of points at you being whatever-ist as well, because you're so blind to the consequences of your actions that it needs to be pointed out to you that, hey, saying this stuff really can be harmful.

 

[ThreeName]

..To which we have people bickering about which sub-category is which, and which group represents the 'true' category and which do not, and so on. That's why I also claimed 'And any disputes are settled by me, and if you disagree, you are WRONG. Go found your own group'. Hey, I know almost anyone will accept these three claims (except those against positive-discrimination, but that doesn't necessarily make them sexist.), which was also my point.
In all honestly, I probably could have handled it better, true. It was late at night and I was being dramatic.

Everyone was a bit grumpy in that thread. I dunno, I see the subcatagories as basically mix-n-matches where you pick what you want and run with it. Creating your own name just doesn't seem academically valid

 

[wulf3n]

You may assume all blacks can run super fast, which is a racist generalisation, even though many would believe it's a positive assumption and supported by the predominance of god-tier black sprinters.

Humans are naturally geared towards generalisations. We make assumptions based on the limited information we have, I don't know I'f i'd call this Racism.

Say the only time I'd seen men with long hair was at heavy metal concerts, then one day I bump into a guy with long hair and automatically assume he likes heavy metal.

Does this make me a bad person?

Yet if I were to do the same with the Black sprinters I'd be considered racist.

Captcha: sudo make sandwhich.

No captcha I'm talking about Racism not Sexism.

 

[Colour Scientist]

As so many people have said, if you say racist and sexist things, don't be surprised when people think you're sexist and racist.

okay i'm an 'Uber-Female', i like to consider myself a 'better person' then most of the 'chicks' out there i know that seem to be the culminating representation of what being 'woman' is and i wholly disagree...

What exactly are you trying to say here?

[sub]Also, why do you put so many words inside quotation marks for no apparent reason?[/sub]

 

[wulf3n]

You may assume all blacks can run super fast, which is a racist generalisation, even though many would believe it's a positive assumption and supported by the predominance of god-tier black sprinters.

Humans are naturally geared towards generalisations. We make assumptions based on the limited information we have, I don't know I'f i'd call this Racism.

Say the only time I'd seen men with long hair was at heavy metal concerts, then one day I bump into a guy with long hair and automatically assume he likes heavy metal.

Does this make me a bad person?

Yet if I were to do the same with the Black sprinters I'd be considered racist.

Long hair is a choice. Being black is not. Do you see why generalizations are not equivalent due to that stipulation?

I don't see how choice has anything to do with what I'm talking about.

Can you clarify?

edit:

If you really want, change the long hair, Heavy metal analogy with White Guy, Southern American Accent and Nascar

 

[Pebblig]

I'm of the opinion that sexist/racist humour is fine...providing it is directed towards people you know, who understand your intent.

Knowing it's meant to be taken as a joke is what makes it funny...and a joke, but you can't just crack a racist joke with a random guy you met at the bus stop.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

I take the angle of total apathy when someone calls out something I say.

Why should I care if some idiot on the internet thinks I'm sexist or racist? I'm having far too much fun making jokes.