The Division Aiming for 30fps

[DarkhoIlow]

Ubisoft is aiming for upcoming third-person shooter The Division to run in 30fps on Xbox One and PlayStation 4, Massive Entertainment managing director David Polfeldt told GameSpot today during an interview at E3. Increasing the frame rate to 60fps would require trade-offs in other game areas, like destruction, and Ubisoft wasn't willing to compromise, Polfeldt said.

"I think we're shooting for 30fps because it's a trade-off, right? Graphical fidelity and immersion are more important to us than the frame-rate," Polfeldt said. "If we go for [60fps], we'll have to make a trade-off on fidelity and other things," he said.

"But because we want to have very, very complex destruction and extremely detailed environments; a complete weather system, full day/night cycle ? at some point you have to make up your mind: where do you invest? And for us, it's going to be 30fps," Polfeldt added.

We also quizzed Polfeldt about resolution for The Division, but he wouldn't budge. "Resolution-wise? I don't know."

source: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/e3-2014-why-xbox-one-ps4-pc-shooter-the-division-is-aiming-for-30fps/1100-6420398/

Thoughts?

Personally I'm glad I'll be playing this on PC, where I will most likely get 60fps.

captcha: New York..Escapist has now became self aware.

 

[The Lunatic]

Well, they can aim for 30 FPS. And I'll aim for not buying it.

Besides, it's an Ubisoft game. My hopes are already low to begin with.

 

[synobal]

These consoles simply won't do 60 fps at the fidelity and resolution people expect.

At least they aren't saying 30 fps is more "cinematic".

 

[josemlopes]

Cant blame them at all that it runs 30fps on consoles. The game does seem ambitious and not just purely around textures and models, everything around it seems rather dynamic so yeah... hate the consoles, not the game.

 

[DarkhoIlow]

These consoles simply won't do 60 fps at the fidelity and resolution people expect.

At least they aren't saying 30 fps is more "cinematic".

Just you wait! I bet they will..the game is releasing in 2015, there's plenty of time to say more bullshit.

 

[Shadow-Phoenix]

Thoughts?

Personally I'm glad I'll be playing this on PC, where I will most likely get 60fps.

captcha: New York..Escapist has now became self aware.

I'm actually confused, what thoughts exactly can be "allowed" and shared on such a topic, I mean I'm scratching my head because we recently had a 30fps vs 60fps topic and we all knew how that went and turned out, what good will it do here?, all it's going to be is the same exact discussion once more with the same exact results, i'm pretty sure you actually know this because at the end you said "Personally I'm glad I'll be playing this on PC, where I will most likely get 60fps", the answer is right there.

You linked them going for 30fps for consoles, that's all there was to it, I don't think there's really much to discuss for that at all other than "lol they are retarded" to "lolPCmasterrace", that's all the discussion that can be had on a forum like this, you told me you had such high expectations on a previous topic so now you're showing them here, again what discussion/ thoughts can actually be had that won't be circle jerked and won't also be insta shot down via a PC argument?.

Unless of course you made this as another attempt to just mock consoles and their users because you've made it known that you're not going to be playing consoles any time soon and before you decide to pull the opposite, yes I do game on PC, I like to game on consoles too but I don't see a need to forcefully limit myself to a singular platform and feel the need to mock others in a way to validate my choice.

 

[DarkhoIlow]

Thoughts?

Personally I'm glad I'll be playing this on PC, where I will most likely get 60fps.

captcha: New York..Escapist has now became self aware.

I'm actually confused, what thoughts exactly can be "allowed" and shared on such a topic, I mean I'm scratching my head because we recently had a 30fps vs 60fps topic and we all knew how that went and turned out, what good will it do here?, all it's going to be is the same exact discussion once more with the same exact results, i'm pretty sure you actually know this because at the end you said "Personally I'm glad I'll be playing this on PC, where I will most likely get 60fps", the answer is right there.

You linked them going for 30fps for consoles, that's all there was to it, I don't think there's really much to discuss for that at all other than "lol they are retarded" to "lolPCmasterrace", that's all the discussion that can be had on a forum like this, you told me you had such high expectations on a previous topic so now you're showing them here, again what discussion/ thoughts can actually be had that won't be circle jerked and won't also be insta shot down via a PC argument?.

Unless of course you made this as another attempt to just mock consoles and their users because you've made it known that you're not going to be playing consoles any time soon and before you decide to pull the opposite, yes I do game on PC, I like to game on consoles too but I don't see a need to forcefully limit myself to a singular platform and feel the need to mock others in a way to validate my choice.

I gave my opinion on the news because the news article showed PC as well.

I made a similar topic with Dead Rising locked 30fps PC port that may have relevance to this as well.

And mocking? Take that as you want, but if I did own a next gen console instead of PC I would have higher expectations from developers to stop trying to give consumers standards from last generation and strive for something better.

 

[Shadow-Phoenix]

I gave my opinion on the news because the news article showed PC as well.

I made a similar topic with Dead Rising locked 30fps PC port that may have relevance to this as well.

And mocking? Take that as you want, but if I did own a next gen console instead of PC I would have higher expectations from developers to stop trying to give consumers standards from last generation and strive for something better.

But that's the main question I'm shooting, what's the world shattering relevance you have to warrant two of the same topic instead of into one and not having it become a circle jerk, what I said before is pretty much what this is, a 30fps vs 60fps, call it relevant all you want but that's like saying an atheist vs Christian topic is always relevant even though we've seen enough of those to know they aren't relevant and always cause shit.

This is basically 30fps what a crock of shit I expected higher/thread, that's it, the thread in it's entirety, seriously what else is there to talk about other than the FPS itself and the fact current gen has some problems, PC has problems last time I checked too but I hear PC players lose to dispel those in order to make themselves appear greater than the known force.

I'm rolling my eyes because this is basically asking for a circle jerk, just like threads that basically allow nothing but praise from one thing to completely damning something like a console in another, protip you won't see nearly as many anti PC threads as you will consoles on here so it's effectively a circle jerk.

If it wasn't a circle jerk we wouldn't have this type of specific copy paste topic but instead have open discussion about other such topics that don't devolve into completely land sliding to one side of the spectrum and making sure no one can move to the other side unless they want to be told they are objectively wrong out the ass (because that's the 30fps vs 60fps in a nutshell =D).

 

[DarkhoIlow]

I gave my opinion on the news because the news article showed PC as well.

I made a similar topic with Dead Rising locked 30fps PC port that may have relevance to this as well.

And mocking? Take that as you want, but if I did own a next gen console instead of PC I would have higher expectations from developers to stop trying to give consumers standards from last generation and strive for something better.

But that's the main question I'm shooting, what's the world shattering relevance you have to warrant two of the same topic instead of into one and not having it become a circle jerk, what I said before is pretty much what this is, a 30fps vs 60fps, call it relevant all you want but that's like saying an atheist vs Christian topic is always relevant even though we've seen enough of those to know they aren't relevant and always cause shit.

This is basically 30fps what a crock of shit I expected higher/thread, that's it, the thread in it's entirety, seriously what else is there to talk about other than the FPS itself and the fact current gen has some problems, PC has problems last time I checked too but I hear PC players lose to dispel those in order to make themselves appear greater than the known force.

I'm rolling my eyes because this is basically asking for a circle jerk, just like threads that basically allow nothing but praise from one thing to completely damning something like a console in another, protip you won't see nearly as many anti PC threads as you will consoles on here so it's effectively a circle jerk.

If it wasn't a circle jerk we wouldn't have this type of specific copy paste topic but instead have open discussion about other such topics that don't devolve into completely land sliding to one side of the spectrum and making sure no one can move to the other side unless they want to be told they are objectively wrong out the ass (because that's the 30fps vs 60fps in a nutshell =D).

Well you do know that this circle jerk wouldn't of existed in the first place if Sony/MS would of invested in consoles with way more power so that they would indeed manage to make games higher than what the previous generation did.

What I've noticed that most of the complaints/arguments regarding 30vs60 1080p or 920p or 792 p discussions are all coming from the console folk. You don't see us PC gamers complaining..just merely sitting on the sidelines and sometimes trying to educate the uninformed.

The fact that you can indeed buy a PC for 500-600$ a custom built PC that will outperform these consoles only proves my point, but people remain ignorant to this fact.

Same goes for the whole framerate debate..that is why sometimes people (myself included) get baffled so much that we post things/threads about them to get discussions going. It doesn't always turns into a circle jerk like you say but whenever I do reply it's objective such as "60fps is objectively better than 30fps" and you cannot deny that.

I don't want to start a flame war between PC and consoles. I just wanted to spark conversations about what people that do own consoles think about this, where developers actively work on downgrading their game and sometimes shoot for the sky to be promptly crash down because of the limitations that the hardware they are working with have. And yes, this affects me as a PC player as well when companies and big publishers want to keep parity with consoles which results in downgrades (see Watch Dogs, Dark Souls 2).

The topic I made about Dead Rising 3 (it was the first before this one) is about PC specific players so I don't know why you even posted there since it seems (to me at least) that you care more about the consoles than PC.

The one about Division is what I stated before to spark conversation with console users that will want to play this on.

PS: Sorry for wall of text, but I wanted to see my point through.

 

[Shadow-Phoenix]

it seems (to me at least) that you care more about the consoles than PC.

PS: Sorry for wall of text, but I wanted to see my point through.

I know you probably didn't mean offence to say that but:

Spoiler

I can't help but take it in because in saying that it's now suddenly become the "you're with me or you're my enemy" for not being on that specific side, I like gaming on consoles and PC, I have problems with both in the past and the present, I'm only saying what I said on this thread because I fail to see the logic and the relevance when I already know the answer, I've seen the answer so many times, seen it played out like a musician who knows knows his instrument all too well.

I know you say there are some ignorant people but so do those bible bashing Christians and need to read the bible every time someone they see if "misguided", not saying you're a christian that bashes bibles mind you but you're doing the same kind of actions at the same time, not seeing any wrong in them or any kind of illogical thought.

I also think it's a tad weak to blame on Sony and MS for you creating the circle jerk or others having it, they actually created it themselves, not the companies, people create those circles because they want to, because some people love circle jerks and love the feelings they get from them, when someone interrupts the circle jerk the majority tend to get uppity and mad (you know like all those Nintendo/Sony threads I hear a lot of).

I dunno I'm just getting tired of coming on here and seeing the main topics being FPS complaints and ragging on consoles instead of toning it down, dialing it back and enjoying what you already have that another platform doesn't (which is what's happening with E3 anyway on all platforms).

There are some good PC threads though like talks of mods for what game are good or what mods do you have, those speak to me and open up suggestions and peoples views on said mods or hell even PC game suggestions even.

I just can't help but see not much discussion to be had in a FPS topic when we've already had one that could be talked about in there since it's still on going or at least merge these two threads into one.


No worries about the big wall O' text though, I'm used to reading a long paragraphs, walls of text with no spaces however can sod off.

 

[DarkhoIlow]

Spoiler

it seems (to me at least) that you care more about the consoles than PC.

PS: Sorry for wall of text, but I wanted to see my point through.

I know you probably didn't mean offence to say that but:

Spoiler

I can't help but take it in because in saying that it's now suddenly become the "you're with me or you're my enemy" for not being on that specific side, I like gaming on consoles and PC, I have problems with both in the past and the present, I'm only saying what I said on this thread because I fail to see the logic and the relevance when I already know the answer, I've seen the answer so many times, seen it played out like a musician who knows knows his instrument all too well.

I know you say there are some ignorant people but so do those bible bashing Christians and need to read the bible every time someone they see if "misguided", not saying you're a christian that bashes bibles mind you but you're doing the same kind of actions at the same time, not seeing any wrong in them or any kind of illogical thought.

I also think it's a tad weak to blame on Sony and MS for you creating the circle jerk or others having it, they actually created it themselves, not the companies, people create those circles because they want to, because some people love circle jerks and love the feelings they get from them, when someone interrupts the circle jerk the majority tend to get uppity and mad (you know like all those Nintendo/Sony threads I hear a lot of).

I dunno I'm just getting tired of coming on here and seeing the main topics being FPS complaints and ragging on consoles instead of toning it down, dialing it back and enjoying what you already have that another platform doesn't (which is what's happening with E3 anyway on all platforms).

There are some good PC threads though like talks of mods for what game are good or what mods do you have, those speak to me and open up suggestions and peoples views on said mods or hell even PC game suggestions even.

I just can't help but see not much discussion to be had in a FPS topic when we've already had one that could be talked about in there since it's still on going or at least merge these two threads into one.


No worries about the big wall O' text though, I'm used to reading a long paragraphs, walls of text with no spaces however can sod off.

I didn't know that (that you care for both PC and console games) so I apologize.

I still want to see what others think about this though!

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I don't see what the big deal is with 30fps vs 60fps, a smooth framerate is all that matters. Movies are 24fps and they are perfectly fine. I've never played a game at 30fps and been like "only if this was 60fps, this would be a 9/10 game instead of an 8/10 game." I'm a computer tech and I don't PC game just because I don't want the hassle of PC gaming. I'm having a blast playing Watch Dogs on PS4, it runs just about as perfect as you can expect whereas I see nothing but PC users having issues with the game. I see the same thing with so many other PC games from Splinter Cell Blacklist (90% of the threads on the official forum in the first days of release were PC issues) to Dark Souls. Yeah, I can Google around and find fixes for PC game issues but it takes some time to find the one guy in a long ass thread that actually figured out what the issue was (or at least the fix that works for you).

And, it's not Sony or Microsoft's fault. It's the developer who chooses more detail vs a better framerate. I'm pretty sure The Division would be able to have destruction with some reduced graphical detail. It's not like it's either 60fps and no destruction or 30fps and destruction. Why can't the devs find a middle ground like something like very slightly lower res (like how Watch Dogs is 900 instead of 1080), some less graphical detail, and say 42-48fps? The only options aren't just 30fps or 60fps.

 

[EternallyBored]

Yeah, like shadow said, you kind of need to take a break from just rehashing the same 30 vs 60 FPS threads just with different games, yes, it's news that will interest some people if a big game is being capped at 30 FPS, especially if the PC version is getting capped, but each individual game does not need its own thread, there's very little discussion value in splitting up the same debate for every game that has the same issue.


As for the issue itself, yeah, don't really care that much, I've never had problems with 30 FPS on consoles, and as long as PC is optimized and allows higher FPS, I can't really work up enough effort to say much about it. If the PC version locks it at 30 FPS, then that can be a sign of a shitty or at least poorly optimized port, but otherwise, I have yet to encounter a game that made me say, "you know, 60 FPS would really make this game so much better than it is", I notice the difference between the two, but really, I have only really encountered 1 or 2 games where I even really noticed and didn't have the option of just putting it on my PC and running it at 60+ FPS, so it's an issue I give zero fucks about as long as the PC port isn't poor, then it's almost never an issue anyway.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

boy they are aiming high with this game arent they?

i still think totalbiscuit was right when he said console games should include an option to run a game at 60 FPS

also, my PC brethen, dont get your hopes up, remember how watch_dogs on PC was supposed to be the "defintiive" version of the game? ubisoft will find a way to screw over every platform equally

 

[MeTalHeD]

I don't see what the big deal is with 30fps vs 60fps, a smooth framerate is all that matters. Movies are 24fps and they are perfectly fine. I've never played a game at 30fps and been like "only if this was 60fps, this would be a 9/10 game instead of an 8/10 game." I'm a computer tech and I don't PC game just because I don't want the hassle of PC gaming. I'm having a blast playing Watch Dogs on PS4, it runs just about as perfect as you can expect whereas I see nothing but PC users having issues with the game. I see the same thing with so many other PC games from Splinter Cell Blacklist (90% of the threads on the official forum in the first days of release were PC issues) to Dark Souls. Yeah, I can Google around and find fixes for PC game issues but it takes some time to find the one guy in a long ass thread that actually figured out what the issue was (or at least the fix that works for you).

And, it's not Sony or Microsoft's fault. It's the developer who chooses more detail vs a better framerate. I'm pretty sure The Division would be able to have destruction with some reduced graphical detail. It's not like it's either 60fps and no destruction or 30fps and destruction. Why can't the devs find a middle ground like something like very slightly lower res (like how Watch Dogs is 900 instead of 1080), some less graphical detail, and say 42-48fps? The only options aren't just 30fps or 60fps.

You're right, but the 60fps would be great considering the refresh rates of many screens hit about 60hz and matching the 60hz with 60fps would reduce screen tearing. I think this only works if the fps shoots higher than the refresh rate though, but that 60fps for years has been the sweet spot.

I also agree with you because they have to work within the limits instead of downgrading the game. The console isn't very powerful if they're starting new games on 30fps so I think that's what bugs many gamers. Why buy a console that's going to give you less fps, especially if those extra frames come in handy during online play? The developers know this, so why are they promoting 30fps as the new standard? It isn't. Gamers must call their BS and ask them why they can't get the same performance on all platforms. For example, I saw Dead Space 2 details on console and PC. The consoles had fewer details, sure, but it was still the same game. It was still lots of fun dismembering xenomorphs on either platform and while I got it on PC, I felt it was definitely something console gamers could and did enjoy.

Perhaps the developers should have been trying to sell innovative gameplay and more fun games instead of fancier effects for next gen consoles. They should do what they can, admit they're limited in what they can do and not compete with PCs because they cannot beat more powerful (and expensive) technology. An exclusive title doesn't have to be something that forces a 30fps lock. For example, Torchlight 2 or Bastion on PC aren't graphically demanding but they are still lots of fun. Bastion had a killer story to boot. There is so much more they can offer gamers than extra visual distractions at lower fps.

Maybe they're scared that if the games looked different that console gamers would move to PC for prettier graphics, but I think if they differentiated themselves it would benefit them far more because they'd have something that no one else has. This might mean games with lower graphics, but there's nothing stopping developers from making games more fun. The PC versions could be a bit different and there's nothing wrong with that either because it could avoid bad ports and PC players would appreciate the extra effort. For example, on console we could have a more cartoony game like Spyro The Dragon (remember him?) and on PC there could be Dragon Rider X (fake title...don't go looking for it online) where players ride dragons they've trained for battle, races and adventure. Both fun, but different.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Why buy a console that's going to give you less fps, especially if those extra frames come in handy during online play?

I buy a console to play the new games, I don't care about FPS. And if everyone is playing online at the same FPS, then no one is either advantaged or disadvantaged.

 

[MeTalHeD]

Why buy a console that's going to give you less fps, especially if those extra frames come in handy during online play?

I buy a console to play the new games, I don't care about FPS. And if everyone is playing online at the same FPS, then no one is either advantaged or disadvantaged.

But why not care about FPS? Why not have smoother gameplay on screen? And you're probably right about online play, but isn't it a little troubling that developers are setting a precedent? What's stopping them from making 24fps or 20fps a standard in the next gen if they can't keep up with graphical advances?

That's a good question actually. At which point does the FPS become a problem? At 25fps? 20fps? I wonder what the bare minimum is for some degree of smoothness without affecting performance too much.

 

[EternallyBored]

Why buy a console that's going to give you less fps, especially if those extra frames come in handy during online play?

I buy a console to play the new games, I don't care about FPS. And if everyone is playing online at the same FPS, then no one is either advantaged or disadvantaged.

But why not care about FPS? Why not have smoother gameplay on screen? And you're probably right about online play, but isn't it a little troubling that developers are setting a precedent? What's stopping them from making 24fps or 20fps a standard in the next gen if they can't keep up with graphical advances?

That's a good question actually. At which point does the FPS become a problem? At 25fps? 20fps? I wonder what the bare minimum is for some degree of smoothness without affecting performance too much.

This is mostly because the human eye starts to notice a lot more once the FPS starts to drop below 30, anything below 20 is generally seen as very noticeable, especially in computer animation, movies pull it off with 24-25 FPS by being largely live action, and editing in high def special effects with a live action cast is much easier and cheaper than at a higher FPS where more frames would need editing.

Many people don't care because 30 is fairly decent and many people, especially those that aren't watching for it, can barely tell the difference between 30 and 60 FPS, and anything above 60 has increasingly diminishing returns (I can't tell the difference in anything above 80 FPS or so).

Like I said before, 60 is nice, and if a PC port is good, I will generally choose that over the console counterpart, but 30 is still pretty smooth, smooth enough that it has never hurt my enjoyment of a game, in many genres, especially slower paced ones or shooter, I can barely tell the difference, and it's only in twitch action games and fighting games that 60 FPS is actually something that improves my gameplay experience.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

But why not care about FPS? Why not have smoother gameplay on screen? And you're probably right about online play, but isn't it a little troubling that developers are setting a precedent? What's stopping them from making 24fps or 20fps a standard in the next gen if they can't keep up with graphical advances?

That's a good question actually. At which point does the FPS become a problem? At 25fps? 20fps? I wonder what the bare minimum is for some degree of smoothness without affecting performance too much.

30fps is smooth. I care more about animation smoothness than FPS. For example, Watch Dogs would look smoother at 30fps than GTAV would at 60fps (I'm assuming PS4/Xbone GTAV will run at 60fps) because the GTAV animations are more stiff. Developers weren't dropping below 30fps less than a year ago on PS3/360, which was far more dated hardware than PS4/Xbone, why would they start dropping the framerate below 30 now? Consoles games usually sell more so games are made with their hardware capabilities in mind, which is why so many PC gamers bitched about the long ass PS3/360 console cycle.