The Dumbing Down of Video Games
- Thread starter Valentine82
- Start date
Recommended Videos
Erana, I highly doubt that just being brought up by intelligent foster parents is going to allow a child to surpass his or here genetic limitations. You might get a well educated and well informed person to be sure, but someone who could rival or surpass most gifted people?
So, you enjoyed Baldurs Gate 2 eh? Congratulations, you can read. Now while you may feel awfully proud about this I'm sorry to have to tell you that most people can read, you aren't special. Because of the rising costs of producing games nowadays games have less dialog, in order to be more generally appealing they involve less basic arithmetic. If you found games in the past more challenging because of this then I think that you would probably be a major beneficiary if games actually were "dumbed down"Valentine82 said:
LOL Beltaine, Nice to know I'm not alone 
I'm impressed by the progress Tennessee has made, but then I see the equivalent of that redneck in Wal-Mart I went on about and I lose all hope.
By the way, has anyone else noticed that Wal-Mart tends to go out of it's way to hire the mentally handicapped? I half suspect that they do so intentionally so that they can take advantage of their lowered mental capacity in an effort to save money.
...
Rack: Excuse me, my complaint was never that there's less text in games. Maybe you had difficulty grasping my meaning because of how I worded my OP, so let me try to elaborate...
Vampire The Masquerade - Bloodlines, a game with an intricate and immersive story and well written dialogue, not to mention well designed atmospheres and full voice overs. This game has all the story depth of Baldur's Gate 2.
Want an example of a dumbed down game Rack? See EA's SPORE. No, not Will Wright's SPORE, which was all but finished in 2006, EA's SPORE, which was released in 2008. Because, according to Chris Hecker, games are just too complicated for gamers.
I'm impressed by the progress Tennessee has made, but then I see the equivalent of that redneck in Wal-Mart I went on about and I lose all hope.
By the way, has anyone else noticed that Wal-Mart tends to go out of it's way to hire the mentally handicapped? I half suspect that they do so intentionally so that they can take advantage of their lowered mental capacity in an effort to save money.
...
Rack: Excuse me, my complaint was never that there's less text in games. Maybe you had difficulty grasping my meaning because of how I worded my OP, so let me try to elaborate...
Vampire The Masquerade - Bloodlines, a game with an intricate and immersive story and well written dialogue, not to mention well designed atmospheres and full voice overs. This game has all the story depth of Baldur's Gate 2.
Want an example of a dumbed down game Rack? See EA's SPORE. No, not Will Wright's SPORE, which was all but finished in 2006, EA's SPORE, which was released in 2008. Because, according to Chris Hecker, games are just too complicated for gamers.
I actually delved into this subject on a review I did for another site.
I'd post a link to it, but I suppose that'd constitute advertising even though I don't get paid a damned cent.
Message me if you want a link.
I eagerly await the disappointment of nobody caring.
[small]...somebody please validate me, I'm so lonely.[/small]
I'd post a link to it, but I suppose that'd constitute advertising even though I don't get paid a damned cent.
Message me if you want a link.
I eagerly await the disappointment of nobody caring.
[small]...somebody please validate me, I'm so lonely.[/small]
Funny how people are arguing that video games are being dumbed down when I think that video games are dumbing down society.
Before you attempt to verbally massacre me and show some strange scientific study that shows that video games make you smarter, read the book Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury. I still like video games, just not what it's doing to literature.
Before you attempt to verbally massacre me and show some strange scientific study that shows that video games make you smarter, read the book Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury. I still like video games, just not what it's doing to literature.
Two words: Level design. The Super Mario games had hidden blocks, level warp pipes, boss fights - and mini-bosses, a power up system done right - and it was the first game to do all this in a complete package. Before Super Mario Bros, you'd get a game that had powerups, or a few eastereggs, or a boss fight - this was the game that seriously raised the bar for game design standards.Psychosocial said:
Sure, this was before you had complex stories in video games (let's face it, there's only so much you can do with a 512KB game cartridge) but the game mechanics and level designs even from that era onwards - had a lot of work put into them.
I'll have a go trying and put up a defence of games not getting stupider.
What is being compared here are western RPGs. There are only so many really top flight western CRPG houses to account for so I can compare a couple of them to check for signs of dumbing down.
1. Black Isle/Troika
Troika have gone through the final terminal dumbing down in that they have closed down due to not being able to get the hit that all game devs need to stay open. It can be argued that Fallout was their most intelligent game as it was their most popular. If anything though Arcanum was a more complicated and abstract work with better writing. Temple of Elemental Evil had the best combat gameplay. Their final game VTM: Bloodlines featured some of their best dialogue, plot and characterisation. Troika games had 99 problems but dumbing down wasn't one of them. Many people from Troika are now spread out in the industry from Obsidian to Blizzard.
Verdict: Never dumbed down and may now be working to make titles like Diablo 3 and Alpha Protocol smarter.
2. Bioware
Hired by Interplay/Black Isle as an outsourced company to apply their RTS game engine to the task of making a D&D RPG, Bioware created Baldur's Gate and became a western RPG shop. They were mainly noted for popularising RTS "real time with pause" combat and introducing a JPRG Final Fantasy 7 type party system and narrative to the American RPG. Baldur's Gate 1 was quite a boring poorly balanced game that mainly appealed to hardcore D&D fans but they improved a lot by BG2. They disappointed some of their fans by creating Neverwinter Nights which had less side content and dialog than BG2 but added a whole lot of other valuable features.
The dumbing down accusations really come in when they start making games for the XBox. Really, these games mostly have the same sort of content as their previous games and they do experiment with other types of gameplay.
Verdict: Not dumbed down. Bioware never made the smartest games despite outdoing themselves by putting an incredible amount of content in BG2. Their biggest crime is in reusing the same characters and quests too much while using gameplay that does not appeal to their established fans.
What is being compared here are western RPGs. There are only so many really top flight western CRPG houses to account for so I can compare a couple of them to check for signs of dumbing down.
1. Black Isle/Troika
Troika have gone through the final terminal dumbing down in that they have closed down due to not being able to get the hit that all game devs need to stay open. It can be argued that Fallout was their most intelligent game as it was their most popular. If anything though Arcanum was a more complicated and abstract work with better writing. Temple of Elemental Evil had the best combat gameplay. Their final game VTM: Bloodlines featured some of their best dialogue, plot and characterisation. Troika games had 99 problems but dumbing down wasn't one of them. Many people from Troika are now spread out in the industry from Obsidian to Blizzard.
Verdict: Never dumbed down and may now be working to make titles like Diablo 3 and Alpha Protocol smarter.
2. Bioware
Hired by Interplay/Black Isle as an outsourced company to apply their RTS game engine to the task of making a D&D RPG, Bioware created Baldur's Gate and became a western RPG shop. They were mainly noted for popularising RTS "real time with pause" combat and introducing a JPRG Final Fantasy 7 type party system and narrative to the American RPG. Baldur's Gate 1 was quite a boring poorly balanced game that mainly appealed to hardcore D&D fans but they improved a lot by BG2. They disappointed some of their fans by creating Neverwinter Nights which had less side content and dialog than BG2 but added a whole lot of other valuable features.
The dumbing down accusations really come in when they start making games for the XBox. Really, these games mostly have the same sort of content as their previous games and they do experiment with other types of gameplay.
Verdict: Not dumbed down. Bioware never made the smartest games despite outdoing themselves by putting an incredible amount of content in BG2. Their biggest crime is in reusing the same characters and quests too much while using gameplay that does not appeal to their established fans.
I believe that this thread is trying to compare the best games western RPGs of today with the best of yesterday. I don't think you are comparing Superman 64 to Fallout 3 and Mass Effect. The worst, poorest selling, games are an irrelevant distraction. Like arguments about games getting stupider due to people inheriting the stupid gene changing game design and content noticeably in 10 years.SilentHunter7 said:
More Fun To Compute Well, when I brought up the general trend in evolution, it was because I've noticed that there are an almost endless amount of idiot frat boys who will be perfectly contented with any title that has big breasts and explosion in it, regardless of bad the writing and how moronic the story driven elements and plot devices are.
The same goes for movies as well, Moviebob did a fine review of Star Trek and Terminator 3 where he noted what calibrations of mediocrity they are. The Star Trek review is definitely worth seeing.
Well, when I brought up the general trend in evolution, it was because I've noticed that there are an almost endless amount of idiot frat boys who will be perfectly contented with any title that has big breasts and explosion in it, regardless of bad the writing and how moronic the story driven elements and plot devices are.The same goes for movies as well, Moviebob did a fine review of Star Trek and Terminator 3 where he noted what calibrations of mediocrity they are. The Star Trek review is definitely worth seeing.
Random argument man: Pretty dumb list of options if you ask me, which you didn't.
By the way you have the issue all wrong, this isn't about people pining for the good old days while hating on everything that's new. If you really think that's what's going on, you're clearly not understanding the complaints against the industry.
Anyway, when people just put up and shut up nothing ever gets done. Slowly but surly the number of items showing up in any google search for "EA sucks" is growing. EA has taken notice and their own CEO has announced plans to do things differently, naming off and apologizing for past errors such as the abolition of Westwood Entertainment.
Clearly when enough people are speaking out, companies start to take notice.
By the way you have the issue all wrong, this isn't about people pining for the good old days while hating on everything that's new. If you really think that's what's going on, you're clearly not understanding the complaints against the industry.
Anyway, when people just put up and shut up nothing ever gets done. Slowly but surly the number of items showing up in any google search for "EA sucks" is growing. EA has taken notice and their own CEO has announced plans to do things differently, naming off and apologizing for past errors such as the abolition of Westwood Entertainment.
Clearly when enough people are speaking out, companies start to take notice.
I took this thread as saying games as a whole today are dumber than games as a whole yesterday. OP generalized too much, and never made any kind of genre distinction, or narrowed the scope of games down to the best of the era. Even so, I still think games are better today than they were yesterday. Call me nuts, but I'd take any of the BioWare RPGs over Deus Ex. Blasphemy, I know. And a game doesn't have to be a western RPG to be 'smart'. Case in point, Six Days in Fallujah, which I refuse to believe will get canceled.More Fun To Compute said:
And I have no idea where the fuck the eugenics arguments came from.