Haven't played Souls but the combat system was the 1 good thing in Amalur and that system might be good to use in TES (without the lack of difficulty ofc)
The Elder Souls?
- Thread starter endtherapture
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A combat system that would be faster than Dark Souls, more tactical han TES, but not as arcadey or OTT as Kingdoms of Amalur would be what they should aim for. I'd definitely be willing to sacrifice "immersion" during combat for the sake of better combat, seeing as most of the time you're in combat with someone or something.GundamSentinel said:
The only real problem with TES combat is it's a bit slow paced and hitting people doesn't have the feel of hitting people, for want of a better way to describe it.
The fun in Elder Scrolls games comes from exploring the world (and often just messing around and building your character up), the fun in Dark Souls comes from beating difficult fights, I don't really think they're compatible -- you couldn't build Dark Souls combat difficulty into Skyrim without making it incredibly difficult to ever actually see half the world (and with the size of the world being a big positive point for Skyrim, this isn't a good idea). I don't think it's really possible to combine non-checkpoint based character progression, a large non-linear world, and difficult combat -- at least not in a way that isn't really unbalanced.
The fun in Elder Scrolls games comes from exploring the world (and often just messing around and building your character up), the fun in Dark Souls comes from beating difficult fights, I don't really think they're compatible -- you couldn't build Dark Souls combat difficulty into Skyrim without making it incredibly difficult to ever actually see half the world (and with the size of the world being a big positive point for Skyrim, this isn't a good idea). I don't think it's really possible to combine non-checkpoint based character progression, a large non-linear world, and difficult combat -- at least not in a way that isn't really unbalanced.
No, not Dark Souls. One of the great things about Elder Scrolls combat it there are no (or very few) context sensitive lock on mechanics. I cannot stand having to lock on to my enemies before swinging my sword in their direction. Also, I do not want to be reliant on having a shield.
TES needs better encounter design. Having every fight devolve into ZERG RUSH THE PLAYER gets old after the second time.
Mount and Blade combat >>>> Dark Souls, and it would fit better in the world (it's more native to the keyboard and mouse, for one thing). Of course, "Mount and Scrolls" doesn't have the same ring as "Elder Souls" does.
I personally think it would be a good idea, though I am a big Souls fan to start with, which might bias me.
Combining TES open world exploration with a weighty combat system like Dark Souls would do wonders to improve the "who has the biggest stick" problem I have with TES, and if they made it their own (i.e., not a direct copy, but gave it their own twist while keeping the weight), would be pretty awesome.
Combining TES open world exploration with a weighty combat system like Dark Souls would do wonders to improve the "who has the biggest stick" problem I have with TES, and if they made it their own (i.e., not a direct copy, but gave it their own twist while keeping the weight), would be pretty awesome.
There would have to be a lot of changes around Dark souls first person mode which doesnt exist outisde of modding (and even there it isnt all that great).
That said, I think dark souls style combat would be the best thing that could happen to the TES series. As is the combat is utter garbage, having little more then power attacks and shield bahses (and even that is a recent addition) so it needs some kind of massive upgrade. However I dont think Bethesda would take the time to add in new move sets for each kind of weapon. I have a feeling they would just make each similar weapon have a similar moveset only certain ones do more damage which is lazy IMO
That said, I think dark souls style combat would be the best thing that could happen to the TES series. As is the combat is utter garbage, having little more then power attacks and shield bahses (and even that is a recent addition) so it needs some kind of massive upgrade. However I dont think Bethesda would take the time to add in new move sets for each kind of weapon. I have a feeling they would just make each similar weapon have a similar moveset only certain ones do more damage which is lazy IMO
In order of series entry:endtherapture said:
Arena is probably the game this kind of change would be best suited to. Due to limitations in design, budget, technology, and precedent, the game wasn't too much more than a prolonged dungeon crawl. A new system of combat would expand on this without really hampering it.
Daggerfall is similarly disposed. Its focus on puzzle dungeons might be a bit antithetical, as it involves a lot of backtracking and experimentation that would doubtless get old (either because areas repopulate with enemies, or they don't, meaning combat is much rarer and more likely to catch you off guard when it does happen).
I can't say the approach would work well for Morrowind. Morrowind's combat was deliberately understated; dungeon enemies are no longer the main feature, but merely a hazard to make exploration more perilous. This is demonstrated by the increasing variance in dungeon layouts, features, loot varieties, and story relevance and the decreasing volume of monster spawns. Adding significantly more challenge to the combat would mean overemphasizing it as part of the experience, and would probably mean weakening systems (such as invisibility, levitation, mark/recall, calm, etc) that remove or alter the parameters of combat.
Oblivion places a little more focus on combat and removes a lot of the interesting spell systems that previous series focused on, either as ways to enhance the dungeon crawling (in Arena and Daggerfall) or systems to explore (in Morrowind). Skyrim takes similar steps. In either, I'd say the Dark Souls approach would be welcome.
No, I'd really dislike that. I don't like the Elder Scrolls combat, but I dislike Dark Soul's combat even more. I couldn't even put more than an hour into that game. I play Elder Scrolls games for the opportunity to explore a huge world, not the combat, so I guess I'm willing to give it a pass on being kinda "meh." How would you even pull off Dark Souls combat in a first person game?
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I would not be opposed to a Mount and Blade style of combat. I haven't played the game myself, but I've seen some gameplay videos. I think it would be nice in the Elder Scrolls games, but I'm not 100% sure.BloatedGuppy said:
The thing is with TES that everyhing is humanoid and melee most of the time. There's the odd spellcaster but the Dwarven Automatons, Draugr, Spriggans etc. all fight the same effectively. It really needs more of a variety in the way creatures and enemies are designed and fight, taking a leaf out of Dark Souls' book, to make combat more interesting.
Also I'm very surprised for the amount of people playing TES as a "hiking simulator" when the game has so much combat.
Also I'm very surprised for the amount of people playing TES as a "hiking simulator" when the game has so much combat.
That's because combat has never been a big deal in TES, its just something that's there to make the exploration more dangerous.endtherapture said:
There are around 30 dungeons that are primary inhabited by warlocks and vampires, both of which are ranged attackers.endtherapture said:
And out of the Draugr, Falmer, Bandit, and Forsworn dungeons, around 30% of attackers are either mages of archers.
Combat seems to be THE POINT of TES seeing as the entire leveling system is balanced around it. No combat = no leveling system. Then why should there be combat if the game is just about exploration?SajuukKhar said:
Because exploration without combat is kinda boring?endtherapture said:
Also, only about 6 of the 18 skills require combat, one-handed, two-handed, archery, block, light armor, and heavy armor.
You can use the other 12 skills for non combat purposes.
What is the point of all of the magics and all of the alchemy and the smithing and stealth and the entire loot system if it is not just to get you through combat? I know you're passionate about TES but this time you're just in plain denial. TES is focused around the combat system just as much as it is the exploration, and the combat system sucks.SajuukKhar said:
To make exploration fun?endtherapture said:
-Exploring stuff without any reward(loot)is pretty boring.
-Getting loot without any sort of challenge(enemies)is also pretty boring.
-Not being able to deal with those enemies, using skills, is also pretty boring.
-Only having one way to kill those enemies using skills is also pretty boring.
All those magics/stealth/melee exist to give you multiple ways to kill shit because killing shit and getting loot makes exploring fun.
Thank you just proved my point for me that combat is indeed a big point of TES.SajuukKhar said:
Actually, I proved the opposite, that combat is only there to serve to make exploration more fun then it is by itself.endtherapture said:
Its like combat in minecraft, or garrys mod, just more developed.