The Escapist Diamond Jubilee 2012 Thread

[EeveeElectro]

The best thing is time and a half pay! Woohoo.

I probably won't be doing anything. I'm not a huge fan of the royal family, we probably still shouldn't be wasting as much money on them a year. It doesn't make my blood boil but I'm a bit meh on them.
Oh wells, the Queen seems pretty cool.
I probably won't be doing anything, might be having a street party with lots of booze though >.>

 

[Ironside]

I will be celebrating by revising for my exams which are the day after the bank holiday - huzzah! I'll still be flying my flag though and maybe watching some of the celebrations.

The thing that creeped me out was that the narrator was talking about how great a monarchy is while speaking in a General American dialect. The idea that a fellow countryman could come to the conclusion that a monarchy is a good thing left me feeling queasy. There are some truly splendid things about Britain and (and there are plenty of problems with the American Republic these days) but I just can't see how anyone can rationally conclude that a monarchy is a good thing.

I was angered because the guy is plain wrong. I can buy the argument that the monarchy isn't a drain on the British economy but not for the reasons he makes: Parliament is making oodles of money off the rents of royal land? Well seize the property and compensate the Windsors and I'm sure they'll have even more revenues over the years to come.

Well for one thing they are basically free and virtually no tax money is given to them. In addition to that they are relatively cheap as a head of state - France's last head of state cost twice as much per year as the Queen does. They are also trained their entire life to fulfill the role of head of state and unless they have some kind of debilitating mental illness (in which case they'd be removed from the line of succession) they should be the best person for the job. They are also above party politics and so, unlike the politicans they will do what is best for the country rather than what is best for a political party - she also represents the entire country rather than 33% of it like most PM's do. Monarchies also tend to be the most stable form of government and the royal family has created and supports dozens of different charities. And i would rather have a monarch representing my country abroad then another career politician who more than likely doesn't have the best interests of their country at heart. I personally can't understand why anyone would want to live in a republic - both France and the US are a mess politically at the moment - I would much rather live in a country that actually has a working system.

And as for your second point - we don't live in a communist country thats why they don't just seize all their land. I don't want to live in a country where the government just randomly starts seizing wealthy peoples land.

 

[JoJo]

Well if they're part of a protest then yes that's clear but just walking down the street, no reason to attach that blame without further evidence. I think it's important that everyone in this country takes pride in our symbols so they don't end up the sole domain of unsavoury political groups.

Well I did say the only ones I do see wearing union jacks happen to be BNP supporters. People don't very often wear those colours at all. Hence my feelings of association with the BNP.

I just have no national pride at all. I wasn't a part of what makes Britain "Great", I don't feel like it is something I can or should identify with. In the worst case, it makes people view other countries as inferior or somehow less deserving of respect. When I look at the map of the Earth, I see land masses not country borders.

If we happen to have a Queen then so be it. I don't really care either way and the family are at least worth their cost. I'll celebrate that we happen to have a monarch reign for 60 years who wasn't an asshat to the country but that's as far as it goes. It's got nothing to do with rebelliousness or poliitcal inclination.

Honestly though, a lot of countries are inferior to the UK: not their people but their political systems and economies. I see nothing wrong with being proud of that fact that we're lucky enough to live in a rich stable democracy, something which is really worth protecting.

My apologies to the OP for raining on his parade but that video and the constant reporting on the monarchy in this country have really gotten to me on both an intellectual and a (surprisingly) emotional level. I'm sure that there are positives. The monarchy seems to play an important role in a lot of Britons feeling of 'Britishness'.

Hey, don't worry about it, I said in the OP that republicans are welcome in this thread too

From my own perspective, other than tradition the reason I support a monarchy is that I don't believe that a head of state should be political and therefore hereditary selection is an effective method of selecting a random person to be monarch, being brought up from birth for that position means that they're generally well trained for it. In the last one hundred and fifty years all our monarchs have been good at their role with the exception of Edward VIII, who to his credit had the sense to abdicate after less than a year in favour of his younger brother. I can understand though why it would seem odd in a country where you haven't had that system for a couple of hundred years.

 

[TAGM]

About the only thing I really get from it is a day or two off. And the annoying thing is, I was going to get those days off anyway for half term... Dammit, couldn't the queen have gone into power a week later? Or earlier?

My mother seems to care a little more, but then, being in the police force (Sort of), she gets a medal from the deal, so, ya know. And my dad was busy hanging up those flag chain... thingies on our wall, so there you are.

So, net profit for my family - A few days off I would have had anyway, a set of possibly-fabric-but-probably-paper flags that could maybe be used for scrap afterwards (It's not unpatriotic to use a union jack in a laser-spewing death machine, is it? :3) and a shiny commemorative medal for... Well, just being in the police force at the time. And, ya know, the chance to be patriotic and randomly sing "God save the Queen" in the street without people giving me funny looks.

Or not as many funny looks, anyway.

 

[Chairman Miaow]

Completely indifferent to the Queen. I see no reason to hate her or love her.

 

[Knusper]

I will be celebrating by revising for my exams which are the day after the bank holiday - huzzah! I'll still be flying my flag though and maybe watching some of the celebrations.

Well for one thing they are basically free and virtually no tax money is given to them.

They get £40 million per year plus a bunch of other costs that brings it up to £10 million, so yeah... not free (source: Guardian)

France's last head of state cost twice as much per year as the Queen does.

Nicolas Sarkozy had a salary of 240,000 euros from the state (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Sarkozy#Personal_wealth )

They are also trained their entire life to fulfill the role of head of state

But by whom? who got a say in what values Prince William was brought up with. There is no reliable way to make sure that they evolve and protect the values of the day, especially compared to a president who has regular elections to make sure the people have one that stands for what they believe in.

They are also above party politics and so, unlike the politicans they will do what is best for the country rather than what is best for a political party - she also represents the entire country rather than 33% of it like most PM's do.

The fact that he has no mandate means she can do nothing helpful e.g. organise trade agreements or engage in diplomacy etc. and thus hands these prerogative powers to the PM which is completely illiberal and undemocratic compared to them being held by someone who is directly elected by the people. Oh yeah, and although the current PM only had about 29% of the people vote for him NO ONE voted for the Queen,so the Queen doesn't effectively represent anyone.

Monarchies also tend to be the most stable form of government and the royal family has created and supports dozens of different charities.

Oh yeah, Bahrain, Oman, Qatar... all those places where the people are so brimming with happiness they're rioting. Sorry, that was mean, a good portion of the wealthiest countries (Norway, Sweden etc.) have monarchies, but my point is that a monarchy in no way makes a country more stable. In fact, explain that point further, please, because I really don't understand the reasoning.

And i would rather have a monarch representing my country abroad then another career politician who more than likely doesn't have the best interests of their country at heart.

We've been over this, but because to hell with it: I would rather have someone who was democratically elected and thus checked by the people to make sure he/she acts in the interest of the country rather than being just an accident of birth. She has no obligation to act in 'your best interest' and if we had a head of state with a mandate and therefore legitimacy to govern, we wouldn't have to give these prerogative powers to the PM to use on his whim (2006 Treaty of Lisbon ring any bells).

I personally can't understand why anyone would want to live in a republic - both France and the US are a mess politically at the moment.

Oh yeah and we're not Come on! The troubles in the US is because there is a deadlock between the executive (Obama) and the Republican-led Congress, how would a monarchy fix that? Furthermore, how is France in a political mess? Whatever you might think of Francois Hollande, they have just had a presidential election won by a healthy majority. Surely their democracy is at its most healthy at the moment, as the mandate for the executive has just been refreshed.

And as for your second point - we don't live in a communist country that's why they don't just seize all their land. I don't want to live in a country where the government just randomly starts seizing wealthy peoples land.

That's... not really a point. No, we don't live in a communist state, but that doesn't mean we should stick devoutly to Thatcherite bollocks, I mean Thatcherite monetarist capitalism. It wouldn't even be communist, as we would be doing it for equality of opportunity rather than closing the division of rich and poor, so I hesitate to call it communism. I'd rather call it being fair.

 

[Raven's Nest]

Honestly though, a lot of countries are inferior to the UK: not their people but their political systems and economies. I see nothing wrong with being proud of that fact that we're lucky enough to live in a rich stable democracy, something which is really worth protecting.

A lot of countries have appauling political systems true, I'm grateful I don't live in Syria for a pertinent example. But like I said, I didn't help to build our government or our laws nor did I choose to live here, I'm simply here by birth.

I can respect Britain and I respect the Queen but I don't need to extend that feeling to celebrating national pride. Especially in the overtly obnoxious way that Britain does, i.e only when there is someone telling us to.

I'm remembering a thread a little while ago that talked about whether or not you should be proud or glad of something. I'm of the opinion it starts less wars when people are glad they live in a country, not proud of it.

 

[370999]

I'm Irish so I would rather celebrate a successful Al-Qaeda assassination on the Royal family, then the Queen's birthday. God how much I hate them so.

God dude your an asshole

But one that knows the difference between "your" and "you're".

However you are right, I will edit my original post.

 

[Raven's Nest]

I'm Irish so I would rather celebrate a successful Al-Qaeda assassination on the Royal family, then the Queen's birthday. God how much I hate them so.

God dude your an asshole

But one that knows the difference between "your" and "you're".

However you are right, I will edit my original post.

You shouldn't need to edit it if it is your opinion (joke or not).

 

[Sigmund Av Volsung]

The only thing that makes me remotely like the Queen is Russell Howard's interpertration of her and Phillip's actions.

Observe:

In general, not really; one of the few postive things about it is that this might generate some income for British Tourism.

 

[Dangit2019]

I think that if us Yanks tried something like this (a day off in celebration of the leader's legacy) out, it would just end up as more people eating fast food during dinner and shutting themselves inside all day to watch movies on Netflix.

...

Oh, who am I kidding, that's all we do anyways. Still, you Brits have us beat when it comes to quality television.

 

[Pinkamena]

Um, yay for her, I guess? I don't see why they would make such a fuzz about it.

 

[Trivun]

My Nan is a Royalist, and she actually made a dress sixty years ago for a friend of hers who asked (said friend being a little kid at the time and my Nan being in her twenties) for the coronation. Now, sixty years later, she's surprising the same friend with another dress she's made for the Jubilee, at a party they're both going to at their local Pensioners' Club. Quite a nice connection over sixty years, I think .

As for me, I'm kind of a monarchist too, though not as much as my Nan. I'm normally very forward thinking and reckon we can move on with a lot of traditions, but the British monarchy is something that I still feel has value and is a true symbol of British pride in the modern era. Although I tend to disagree with the taxpayer funding royal events and so on (which is why I was glad to hear the Thames Jubilee Paegent is being funded by local businesses and donors without any input from the taxpayer - good for the economy, and it shows how much the British people still care about our monarchy and tradition - a win/win in my eyes!).

Nevertheless, I probably won't be doing anything for the Jubilee. But it's nice to see other people enjoying it, even if it does mean more work for me (the Jubilee weekend means a lot more customers at the supermarket where I work, and a lot more stock to keep track of! )...

 

[RyoScar]

I will being doing .....nothing. I don't hate the royale family, but i'm not about to trumpet praise while walking down the street for them.

 

[Wolf In A Bear Suit]

Firstl Hello,this is my first post, go easy on me. I'm Irish and I have no ill feeling towards the queen. I do quite strongly dislike the monarchy itself however and what it stands for and the damage it did to Ireland in the past. What really puzzles me is foreign (namely American) interest in the British monarchy.

 

[Shock and Awe]

Good for the Commonwealth? Doesn't affect us Americans much, but I'm happy for our friends to the North and across the pond.

 

[JoJo]

Firstl Hello,this is my first post, go easy on me. I'm Irish and I have no ill feeling towards the queen. I do quite strongly dislike the monarchy itself however and what it stands for and the damage it did to Ireland in the past. What really puzzles me is foreign (namely American) interest in the British monarchy.

Hey, welcome to the Escapist, here's a little introduction video if you intend to stick around:


Oh and don't forget to stay out of the basement ;-)

As for the topic at hand, even as a monarchist I understand why given what has happened to your country in the past you would feel uneasy about that sort of institution. No country has a perfect record but yeah, we British really did mess Ireland up quite a bit even by our standards, sorry for that. For the Americans and other interested foreigners in the monarchy, I'd guess it's exotic and quaint for them, sort of like a living history.

 

[Wolf In A Bear Suit]

Thanks for the welcome
I personally don't support hatred of the queen for the sake of it, I personally thought she conducted herself very well when she was in Ireland, even if their was the occasional riot, the irony of this been most of the so called anti Monarchy protestors were wearing English football jerseys and are completely ignorant to Irish history. As to being a monarchist, theres nothing wrong with been proud in your nationality or been proud in a symbol of your nationality, the monarchy.

 

[Elvaril]

Yes, Britain, get rid of the monarchy. Because, you know, getting rid of the monarchy always makes everything much better. Just think, if the Kaiser had remained the head of the German state, there would have been no Hitler, no concentration camps, and no World War II. Would that not have been just horrible? And the whole world is surely better off now that the Shah is no longer in charge of Iran. I wonder if Greece would still be collapsing under the weight of its government if it still had a King. Sure the Tsars were not always the best of rulers but you know who was an awesome ruler? Stalin. That guy knew what he was doing.


"Monarchy is often criticised for being a lottery, but so is an elected presidency. Britain last had to play the regal lottery in 1952, when it won handsomely. It has not had to gamble again since then. In the past 45 years Ireland has had to vote in seven presidents, few of them memorable, most of them just grazing. We have had just one head of state, who has performed her duties superbly. Throughout a time of immense social change, indeed revolution, the centre of the British system has remained calm and outside party politics. That is an incalculable asset which no republic can come close to matching.?
-William Shawcross, the article ?The Irish case for monarchy?, The Daily Telegraph, 30th October 1997.

In the past 60 years the United States has had eleven presidents, few of whom were any good at the job to which they were elected. I am not even going to begin to calculate the amount of members of Congress that the US has had in that same amount of time. The monarchy is above political parties and so unites us, while a republic divides its people. And as Voltaire once said, "I would rather obey a fine lion, much stronger than myself, than two hundred rats of my own species." Gods save the Queen.

I do quite strongly dislike the monarchy itself however and what it stands for and the damage it did to Ireland in the past.
.
.
As to being a monarchist, theres nothing wrong with been proud in your nationality or been proud in a symbol of your nationality, the monarchy.

While I understand why the Irish have negative feelings towards the monarchy due to the actions of King James II and King Charles I, some people (not saying that you have but I know many who forget their history) have forgotten over the ages that it was Oliver Cromwell, a politician elected to Parliament who seized power over the state that caused the worst crimes against the Irish people.
I have also found that many people forget that Ireland had a proud tradition of kings before the English took over. I personally feel that if Ireland had an Ard Rí na hÉireann ruling once more from Tara, the country may be better off than with its current gaggle of inept politicians.