The Escapist On: Storytelling
The Escapist Staff discusses how story can elevate or kill a game.
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The Escapist Staff discusses how story can elevate or kill a game.
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The Escapist Presents: The Escapist On: Storytelling
- Thread starter Team Hollywood
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It's hard to beleive that games were only for gameplay in the old days. At a certain point, it was either a game had poor gameplay and a great story or vice versa.
Both of them are required to make a great game during these days.
I like that you guys talked about "if a game made you emotionnal". I'll admit that i've never cried to a western game. However, I had some moments of suprises. Japanese games made me cried twice and feel sorry for many characters. Some people will think otherwise.
Note* Susan, I know how you felt with Jade Empire.
Both of them are required to make a great game during these days.
I like that you guys talked about "if a game made you emotionnal". I'll admit that i've never cried to a western game. However, I had some moments of suprises. Japanese games made me cried twice and feel sorry for many characters. Some people will think otherwise.
Note* Susan, I know how you felt with Jade Empire.
Yeah, actually you don't really recognize, how you personally judge a game, but the facts you point out in this video are quite accurate...
A game being good does only do so by combining gameplay and storytelling, I rather think that games ought to be "played stories" as you can interactively ... -well- act as a person in the game and very often decide, which way the story goes.
There already is a number of good games in which you have to choose between good and evil, like Black and White or Fable, or even games, in which the whole world reacts in different kind of ways, when you change your own attitude...
I think, you found the right words for describing the importance of those facts, we are all checking when playing games, but subconsciously.
PS; Why is nobody replying to this vid? :x
hope I don't get banned x)
PPS; second? °_°
A game being good does only do so by combining gameplay and storytelling, I rather think that games ought to be "played stories" as you can interactively ... -well- act as a person in the game and very often decide, which way the story goes.
There already is a number of good games in which you have to choose between good and evil, like Black and White or Fable, or even games, in which the whole world reacts in different kind of ways, when you change your own attitude...
I think, you found the right words for describing the importance of those facts, we are all checking when playing games, but subconsciously.
PS; Why is nobody replying to this vid? :x
hope I don't get banned x)
PPS; second? °_°
I smell this turning into a JRPG hate thread. Just saying.
In my opinion, the best in-game storytelling goes to Lost Odyssey, for literally being story telling, but with beautiful, emotional music and graphics to go alongside the stories.
In my opinion, the best in-game storytelling goes to Lost Odyssey, for literally being story telling, but with beautiful, emotional music and graphics to go alongside the stories.
=OOnyx Oblivion said:
Quick! Must put of some western Games with great story!
I'll put forward Half Life and COD4 to that plate.
With a little Knights of the Old Republic to garnish it off
Never cried, but when you finally see Midna transformed at the end of Twilight Princess I was in awe. She was already a great character, but in those final moments before she leaves I was captivated by the longing between her and Link.
It didn't make it into the video, but I actually referenced Lost Odyssey for that very reason.Onyx Oblivion said:
I felt the very same way.Emperorpeng said:
OT: Storytelling in games can definitely be tricky. When it's done right, as in BioShock, it's done very well. When it's done wrong, it just brings down the whole experience.
An example I like to bring up (and talked about earlier today) is Chrono Cross & The Force Unleashed. Now, this might seem like an odd juxtaposition, but both of them are aimed at being epic stories with supernatural elements intended to draw us into the lives of the characters. What Chrono Cross does right is giving the characters depth, making the stakes personal and allowing the players to determine the course of the story. The Force Unleashed, on the other hand, is full of shallow wooden characters that get involved in fights for the sake of the spectacle alone, and none of it really amounts to anything because we already know how the story's going to end.
Sounds like all of the prequel films, actually.
Yay! Seriously, I used a guide to ensure that I didn't miss a single one of those fantastic stories. And they were all awesome. Oddly though, the one I posted was the first one, and it was also the saddest. And I never use guides for anything but character creation.Susan Arendt said:
I don't like storytelling in games... at their heart, videogames are still *games* which really makes a mess of my suspension of disbelief.
For example, I walk Nathan Drake along the edge of some crumbling wall to grab a shiny artifact I can see a short distance away. In a butter-fingers moment, he goes flying off the edge and dies. Half an hour later, he's in a dialogue scene where a villain's got a gun pointed at his head. Now what's crumbling is my suspension of disbelief. Nate can take a dozen gunshots before dying, and even if he dies he gets to try again and again until he wins... so what's the deal with letting this situation set him back? It's inconsistent. *My* Nathan Drake would just turn around and unload the usual truckload of whoop-ass, sweep the girl off her feet, toss all the ancient treasures in a sack and fly away into the sunset right then and there; but NOOOO in "the story" he's got to act like this generic goon with a crappy handgun is some kind of threat. It's the same for the enemies: what the hell is up with taking Nathan *hostage*? He's deadlier than ebola!
That's why I like abstract games (shmups e.g.) and simulations. That sort of game doesn't give a damn if you win or lose... there's no narrative that's pre-determined on your progress and success, so failure isn't a total disruption of your immersion in the game.
For example, I walk Nathan Drake along the edge of some crumbling wall to grab a shiny artifact I can see a short distance away. In a butter-fingers moment, he goes flying off the edge and dies. Half an hour later, he's in a dialogue scene where a villain's got a gun pointed at his head. Now what's crumbling is my suspension of disbelief. Nate can take a dozen gunshots before dying, and even if he dies he gets to try again and again until he wins... so what's the deal with letting this situation set him back? It's inconsistent. *My* Nathan Drake would just turn around and unload the usual truckload of whoop-ass, sweep the girl off her feet, toss all the ancient treasures in a sack and fly away into the sunset right then and there; but NOOOO in "the story" he's got to act like this generic goon with a crappy handgun is some kind of threat. It's the same for the enemies: what the hell is up with taking Nathan *hostage*? He's deadlier than ebola!
That's why I like abstract games (shmups e.g.) and simulations. That sort of game doesn't give a damn if you win or lose... there's no narrative that's pre-determined on your progress and success, so failure isn't a total disruption of your immersion in the game.
Good watch. Story seems tricky in games, at least to me. If a game has a great story,I take notice and remember that. KotOR and MGS3 still stand out. On the other hand, if a game has a bad, forgettable, or nonexistent story, but gameplay that makes up for it, I won't think twice.
I think the first game that made me cry a little was the original (1990) Wing Commander.
It had fantastic dynamic music, pretty well written dialogue and a branching story which I always ended up in the wrong branch of. Wingmen I had got used flying with died, we were losing the war, the briefings seemed more tense and occasionally you'd get short cutscenes between missions were you saw human soldiers getting slaughtered by Kilrathi.
The next game to make me cry a little was probably Wing Commander 4 (1996), but that wasn't as much for what happened in the game as how incredibly beautiful it was for its time. The intro movie gives me goosebumps to this day.
Oh, and even though I despised the voice actor for Tidus, and thought most of the dialogue in Final Fantasy X was ridiculous, I couldn't avoid shedding a tear during that Tidus/Yuna scene by the water.
It had fantastic dynamic music, pretty well written dialogue and a branching story which I always ended up in the wrong branch of. Wingmen I had got used flying with died, we were losing the war, the briefings seemed more tense and occasionally you'd get short cutscenes between missions were you saw human soldiers getting slaughtered by Kilrathi.
The next game to make me cry a little was probably Wing Commander 4 (1996), but that wasn't as much for what happened in the game as how incredibly beautiful it was for its time. The intro movie gives me goosebumps to this day.
Oh, and even though I despised the voice actor for Tidus, and thought most of the dialogue in Final Fantasy X was ridiculous, I couldn't avoid shedding a tear during that Tidus/Yuna scene by the water.
Is Logan a new face at The Escapist, or just on video? Hope to see more of him about, and not just to add a few more non-American accents to the mix. Mad props for admitting you look forward to the day that a game makes you cry - I'm in the same boat. The end of Half-Life II: Episode II made my tear up a little, but I look forward to crying like a ***** when someone makes a story that good.
Strange that Russ is all "Story? Pshaw, unnecessary!" Being an editor, I'd assumed he'd appreciate the story.
I remember, back in my day, cutscenes were a reward, so again I'm on the same page as Logan. You'd work hard to get to a certain point and you'd get rewarded with an awesome cutscene. And you know what you'd do right after? Call your friends or go into school the next day and tell them all about it.
"And then the bad guy like waved his arms like THIS and BWOOSH he totally summoned lightning from nowhere and threw it but the good guy was like GODS PROTECT ME and made this little move with his fingers and the lightning TOTALLY FLEW BACK AT THE BAD GUY IT WAS AWESOME."
Strange that Russ is all "Story? Pshaw, unnecessary!" Being an editor, I'd assumed he'd appreciate the story.
I remember, back in my day, cutscenes were a reward, so again I'm on the same page as Logan. You'd work hard to get to a certain point and you'd get rewarded with an awesome cutscene. And you know what you'd do right after? Call your friends or go into school the next day and tell them all about it.
"And then the bad guy like waved his arms like THIS and BWOOSH he totally summoned lightning from nowhere and threw it but the good guy was like GODS PROTECT ME and made this little move with his fingers and the lightning TOTALLY FLEW BACK AT THE BAD GUY IT WAS AWESOME."
I think Egoraptor says it best about cutscenes. Using a cutscene to enhance the story and characters is a cheap way of amplifying the immersion. It should be the in-game immersion that holds you, and not a cutscene that actually has nothing to do with videogames. It is then the movie aspect that draws you.
Personally, a good story (obviously) doesn't hurt, but neither does a bad one. I play games for the gameplay and visual/audible enjoyment only. Awesome graphics, physics and sounds combined with good gameplay, are what make me play games.
Personally, a good story (obviously) doesn't hurt, but neither does a bad one. I play games for the gameplay and visual/audible enjoyment only. Awesome graphics, physics and sounds combined with good gameplay, are what make me play games.
Hey, did anyone else notice the Desgia music playing in the background>? LOL nice touch... damn i feel a little geeky now!
The only time I've ever cried at the story of a game was during (And I know people will hate me forever) Final Fantasy VII (I was young at the time) and I will argue it had a good story besides all those tedious minigames and cross-dressing that made it feel more like I was Attorney Barry Zuckercorn upon reflection...probably none of you got the reference
*SPOILERS BELOW*
On the topic of immersion and cutscenes, I recently played Borderlands, a RPG no less, where cutscenes are few and far between and audiologs manage to both inform and provide a steady source of entertainment. The problem is that Borderlands suffers from a barely-there storyline where a voice in your head tells you to find 4 magic macguffins to open a vault only to have them stolen from you, and the vault opened by the culprit. The culprit gets killed by a monster and you have to kill monster coming out of vault. There, I summed up Borderlands's plot in 2 sentences.
At the same time, the storyline didn't hurt the immersion that much because it was the gameplay that kept me going and the coop multiplayer that kept me immersed much longer than Fallout 3, a very similar game did. Hell, if Fallout 3 and Bioshock were sucked up by the wittiest Kirby in all of Dreamland, farted out, it's star harvested by Gearbox and somehow converted into a game, that would be Borderlands...I've gotten off track.
In Bioshock there are only like 3 cutscenes(Cutscenes being classified as scenes where you can't move)? That guy being killed by the spider splicer, Ryan telling you to kill him and The ending. Everything else about the story is told through audio diaries and radio messages between Atlas/Fontaine, Tenenbaum, Ryan and you. Does it hurt the immersion, no it strengthens it all the more. Those radio messages make Bioshock a creepy atmospheric game because you know that you are always being watched by both your enemies and your allies.
*Spoilers ARE DONE*
Not the best pointers, but whatever...
*SPOILERS BELOW*
On the topic of immersion and cutscenes, I recently played Borderlands, a RPG no less, where cutscenes are few and far between and audiologs manage to both inform and provide a steady source of entertainment. The problem is that Borderlands suffers from a barely-there storyline where a voice in your head tells you to find 4 magic macguffins to open a vault only to have them stolen from you, and the vault opened by the culprit. The culprit gets killed by a monster and you have to kill monster coming out of vault. There, I summed up Borderlands's plot in 2 sentences.
At the same time, the storyline didn't hurt the immersion that much because it was the gameplay that kept me going and the coop multiplayer that kept me immersed much longer than Fallout 3, a very similar game did. Hell, if Fallout 3 and Bioshock were sucked up by the wittiest Kirby in all of Dreamland, farted out, it's star harvested by Gearbox and somehow converted into a game, that would be Borderlands...I've gotten off track.
In Bioshock there are only like 3 cutscenes(Cutscenes being classified as scenes where you can't move)? That guy being killed by the spider splicer, Ryan telling you to kill him and The ending. Everything else about the story is told through audio diaries and radio messages between Atlas/Fontaine, Tenenbaum, Ryan and you. Does it hurt the immersion, no it strengthens it all the more. Those radio messages make Bioshock a creepy atmospheric game because you know that you are always being watched by both your enemies and your allies.
*Spoilers ARE DONE*
Not the best pointers, but whatever...