The Escapists faith in the police?

[Jackhorse]

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I appreciate the information, but really, no change here. The cop doesn't have arms around the kid--he's got a hand on him. It's basically fully-extended at all times, and I don't know if you've tried to push or pull something with a fully-extended arm, but it doesn't work well at all. Again, it appears the yellow-jacketed cop in the foreground is being pulled at all times.

From your link, I did learn that there were two such incidents with the same subject. This video was of the second. Amazing it is, then, that this second one happened to be caught on video. This reinforces the appearance that this was planned and staged. Maybe it was the kid's idea, maybe some blokes put him up to it.

If I was trying to move a kid out of the middle of the road (still issue #1), and he showed he was unwilling to move on his own or be wheeled, and then he dove for the ground (note: I didn't say threw himself, but took a dive. He's perfectly capable of an intentional fall forward if he's able to operate that chair.), I wouldn't even consider putting him back in the chair. That would be resetting things to square one. Instead, I'd remove him and then put him back.

Any decent cop would do the same thing if a normal, healthy subject decided to squat down in the middle of the street and refuse to be moved. And they would be completely within rights to do so if the subject wasn't legally supposed to be there. Just so happens everyone goes, "Shame shame!" because this guy is physically handicapped. Not mentally, though. He knows exactly what he's doing.

If he were put up to it wouldn't the first incedent be filmed or the camera kept trained on him? More likely he was just getting footage of the police pushing forward on horseback. If the police tried to remove me from a protest after no crimes I would naturally return to it (well withing my rights to get my voice heard).
He is not able to operate the chair, his brother pushes him along as said. And in a protest you get all kinds of people where theyre not supposed to be, I would be angry if police officers humiliated a normal man for standing in the wrong place, not even destroying a building or on private property but merely the middle of a London road, many walk in the middle of the streets in protests it's the done thing. My argument isn't that the guy wouldn't be able to know what he was doing if he did somehow dive out of his chair but that he did not intend to be taken from it.

Since your argument is based on the kid taking himself from the chair and mine is based on the foreground officer pulling the youth, taking him from the chair and it is indeed difficult to make out what happened from the grainy video, lets just live and let live with each other. I'll believe the victims testimony and you'll beleive the polices and I can see that neither of us will move from our position until more information comes to light.

 

[ace_of_something]

I'm glad to see most escapists at least on paper, realize the difficulty of our job, and that police are people too.

FYI: Did you know the police are under no legal obligation to come to your aid even when you call them, or to even investigate a crime?

So you're judging literally millions of people, or at the very least an entire department based on one bad experience... I apologize wholeheartedly on behalf of my blue brethren. If this happened fairly recently and you live in the USA there has to be someone you can call and complain to. Most people that handle police department complaints are NOT police and a third party hired by the government. Please do not be afraid to file a complaint it's the only way that detective will learn from his/her mistake.

Also... what?
If we don't render aid we can be sued back to the stone age...

 

[Sovvolf]

I'm glad to see most escapists at least on paper, realize the difficulty of our job, and that police are people too.

Even with my pretty damn poor experience with the police, I realise that all officers are human (or dogs) however I do feel that, some let their emotions get the better of them. In a position of power, specially the power and officer holds, they should be more than human. They should be people with excellent skills when it comes to judgement and negotiation. They should be beyond corruption and shouldn't let there emotions get the better of them, good or bad.

Hahaha Sadly however, we live in the real world. Sadly too we have too many rotten apples in the police department... To a point where people fear those that are put in place to protect them.

 

[ace_of_something]

I'm glad to see most escapists at least on paper, realize the difficulty of our job, and that police are people too.

Even with my pretty damn poor experience with the police, I realise that all officers are human (or dogs) however I do feel that, some let their emotions get the better of them. In a position of power, specially the power and officer holds, they should be more than human. They should be people with excellent skills when it comes to judgement and negotiation. They should be beyond corruption and shouldn't let there emotions get the better of them, good or bad.

Hahaha Sadly however, we live in the real world. Sadly too we have too many rotten apples in the police department... To a point where people fear those that are put in place to protect them.

We really are held to a higher standard. It's easy for us to get fired... and hold on UK? From what I understand it is very hard for police over there to be dismissed.

I am not sure if it's the mentality of you're average UK citizen or (More likely) the fact there is less accountability for officers in the UK, but I hear a lot of stories I don't like coming from folks across the pond.

 

[MajorKris]

Meh. If there is some sort of domestic disturbance or just crazy stuff in general going on, I am more inclined to call the police than to get myself involved. Officers tend to get their emotions involved a lot, and I even had a bad experience with a local police officer who had a habit of drinking when off duty.

I am much more inclined to respect and trust military personel than my local police, but I am glad we have atleast some sort of authority like that around. I am willing to admit my bias though, I know that the majority of them have good intentions when they join the force.

 

[Sovvolf]

We really are held to a higher standard. It's easy for us to get fired... and hold on UK? From what I understand it is very hard for police over there to be dismissed.

From what I've witnessed and from the accounts of others... Yeah, it seems like its next to impossible to get dismissed over here. Though most of this is anecdotal so its whether or not you can take my word for their behaviour.

Most of the incidents I mentioned in my earlier post above... We launched complaints about and them officers got off scot free. Though that was quite a time ago and maybe its a little different now as we've had a few crack downs on the police abusing their power. We had one officer around the South Yorkshire area caught out, suspended and eventually arrested for using his badge to rape young women.

Can't remember how many women had fallen victim to him however it was in the two digit numbers. So you can see why a lot of us Brits are a little shaky with our trust of the police.

Hell we had that one officer, I think a year back... Maybe more, I think it was about this time last year. He was caught on tape pushing over an innocent bystander who was on his way to the shop, the fellow had an heart attack and was killed for it, I think the officer got a couple months suspension. Granted, there was a riot going on however, there was no need for that.

I hear a lot of stories I don't like coming from folks across the pond.

Yeah, its okay hearing them... However, having to experience them... Something much different. Its extremely scary, specially when these people are supposed to be protecting you. I mean, who am I going to call to help me when its a police officer doing the attack... I can file a report but that doesn't seem to help.

Heck, if I have alcohol on me (I'm 19 and above the legal drinking age over here) I fear to walk home with it. Mainly because if the police in my area catch you with it, they take it off you regardless of age or I.D... I even sent a letter into South Yorkshire police asking about this and I got no reply from them.


Look don't take me the wrong way when I talk about this. I'm not one of those "Fuck the police" kind of people, I respect the law... I follow the law (even if I have my disagreements with what should and shouldn't be legal) and with the exception of some stupid kiddy stuff in my youth... I've never broken the law.

However the police force over here seems to be full of corruption. We have some good people in the police force, don't get me wrong about that. I've met some smashing down to earth people (Like I said, I train martial arts with a police officer and he's an outstanding gentlemen who'd help you with anything. Not only that, my cousin is training to be a police officer). However for every one of them I've met, I've met five bad apples.

 

[Zepren]

I've always had pleasant dealings with the police. If you just show them respect the you're fine. Also a good mate of mine is a copper which i guess helps raise my opinion as it were.

 

[Cpt_Oblivious]

I've always had pleasant dealings with the police. If you just show them respect the you're fine. Also a good mate of mine is a copper which i guess helps raise my opinion as it were.

Pretty much this, if you replace "good mate" with Dad and "is" to was. They're just doing their jobs. Break the law, they'll come after you, don't and they won't - just show them the respect you show others doing their jobs.

 

[Ham_authority95]

My local police do a pretty good job aside from the idiotic profiling of anyone with a skateboard. It isn't like I blindly follow them, but I trust them to get the job done.

Besides the usual white-trash dipshit fights, unartistic graffiti, and bus stop drug deals, we're fairly safe because of them. .

 

[Doctor Glocktor]

It annoys me that some abuse the act that the police are above the law, but you gotta accept some pains for the good of everyone and the protection the police provide.

 

[ScarlettRage]

ummm i not really pleased with their conduct as of late....

also when me and my boyfriend pass a cop car we go oink oink oink i smell bacon.......

sorry..

 

[loc978]

...I find the word faith slightly abhorrent, actually...

But as for trusting the police... I don't trust any human being very far, and those with power less than those without. Mind you, I've met plenty of officers who just do their job, do it well, and uphold the laws that need upholding... but I refuse to judge them on a larger scale than case-by-case basis.

 

[SovietSecrets]

I don't trust the police. I have seen/read too many instances where police overstep their bounds and do moronic things. Hell my Admin of Justice teacher was an old cop that told us things about what cops do sometimes for fun and we did a couple of case studies where what cops do and get away with is amazing.

An example of what they do for fun is they get behind people on the freeway and start speeding up just a bit to make the driver in front nervous and get them to speed up a little. They keep doing this until the person breaks the speed limit and they are allowed to pull them over.

I trust the court system more to get me out of what I did then I do the police. Not that I haven't met some pretty cool cops that were laid back and let me off with a warning because they understood it wasn't my fault. Still overall, courts>police.

 

[pubbing]

FYI: Did you know the police are under no legal obligation to come to your aid even when you call them, or to even investigate a crime?

Also... what?
If we don't render aid we can be sued back to the stone age...

Just for reference :

In 1849, Jonathan W. Pottle was held captive and forced to pay $2,500 for his release. Mr. Pottle thought that this was unreasonable because the sheriff was present during the extortion and refused to assist him. As a loyal American, Mr. Pottle sued over this failure to act, and lost. In an 1855 decision the United States Supreme Court perfunctorily recited the facts, and ruled that there is no right to police protection and no right to sue over its lack. Since that decision, there has been no right to police protection recognized in the United States.

 

[ace_of_something]

FYI: Did you know the police are under no legal obligation to come to your aid even when you call them, or to even investigate a crime?

Also... what?
If we don't render aid we can be sued back to the stone age...

Just for reference :

In 1849, Jonathan W. Pottle was held captive and forced to pay $2,500 for his release. Mr. Pottle thought that this was unreasonable because the sheriff was present during the extortion and refused to assist him. As a loyal American, Mr. Pottle sued over this failure to act, and lost. In an 1855 decision the United States Supreme Court perfunctorily recited the facts, and ruled that there is no right to police protection and no right to sue over its lack. Since that decision, there has been no right to police protection recognized in the United States.

Ah your google-fu is strong. Though I wouldn't trust a reactionary website for fair and balanced information about events 160 years past.

Yes, your search engine is absolutely right there is no law in the USA (federally at least) specifically stating that police are required to act in every situation. Because that would be retarded to have such a blanket law (under-cover work would pretty much be impossible) and regulating all the if-than situations that could occur where it is and isn't okay for police to act would be nigh impossible.

Insuring that police are doing their job is dealt with internally and by other governing bodies.
Complaints of the that nature are dealt with by either an internal affairs department or in my case an EXTERNAL department that's sole job is to keep tabs on city and county police (also EMTs and Fire Department).

edit to clarify point:
Just because we (aren't) held legally responsible always doesn't mean there aren't consequences you paint with a broad brush.

Last point: If you find the lack of such a law a problem. It's not the police you should be upset with. We don't write laws.

Off topic the case you mention under current day procedures would've never come before the supreme court. (look up Coram nobis)