The Ethics of "Project Harpoon"

[Dizchu]

Their comparison doesn't make sense though, so that doesn't follow. It's more likely they just wanted a reason to ***** about women who were fat and used that video game thing as a scapegoat.

Absolutely the comparison makes no sense, their "mission statement" was such an insincere crock of shit. Either they sincerely believed that "all fat women everywhere" were on board with making thin female characters chubby (yeah, okay) or, as you said, they wanted a cheap excuse to harass people for the cheeky banter. Which means they're either extremely insecure, complete assholes, or both.

I don't see anyone being ridiculed. Hell, on the FB page and on their subreddit people are lining up REQUESTING to be shopped for these exact reasons.

If so many people lined up, why did they feel the need to take people's photos without consent? Why did they feel the need to take photos from people's Tumblr blogs and Facebook pages, manipulate them and distribute them for all to see?

It is obvious that their intention was mockery and trolling. They were called Project Harpoon. They are not hiding this one bit. Their attempts to convince people that they're "doing the right thing" are done with such frivolity and lack of responsibility that the only conclusions I can come to are that they are either cruel or immensely idiotic.

All this butthurt is just the result of the current trend to label stating anything but cuddly feel-good hugbox "everyone is perfect <3" phrases as "offensive", "shaming" or "discrimination."

No. This has nothing to do with fat acceptance or hugboxes, not at its core anyhow. I don't care if they want to shame fat celebrities or if they want to rail against fat-positive feminists. They can have their circlejerk. Actually, I encourage them to have their circlejerk. But when you involve members of the public, that crosses a line.

Would it be okay for me to take the private photos of black people and photoshop them to look white? What if it was a "statement" against clickbait articles that insisted that Disney princesses are too white or that there aren't enough non-white video game characters? That'd be a bullshit thing to do and you know it.

If fat people want to be photoshopped to look thin, that's great. Go for it. But if you're stalking people's pages, intended for small groups of friends, take their photos and manipulate them to "make a point"? I'm sorry, that's fucked up. They're on par with Indian men that stalk white girls and ask for photos of their genitalia.

 

[Sleepy Sol]

What board(s) was this started (or continued) on?

Because it sounds pretty goddamn stupid. And horribly dickish.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

What board(s) was this started (or continued) on?

Because it sounds pretty goddamn stupid. And horribly dickish.

/b/, the source of 4chan's bad ideas.

OT: Excitable people are excitable. Also water is wet and the sun is hot.

 

[Sleepy Sol]

/b/, the source of 4cahn's bad ideas.

That explains just about everything I needed to know, then.

I still don't get what's going on with attributing /b/'s antics to the entirety of 4chan.

 

[Ambitiousmould]

4chan does something shitty. In other news, the sky remains blue (or rather grey, here in dreary old England).

4chan arses about with the utmost intent of winding people up. Discussing the ethics of anything they do is a bit like discussing whether or not sharks really need all those teeth. The fact is they do have all those teeth, so best just to ignore them and you won't get shredded into people mince and shat out into the ocean.

 

[VanQ]

You know, I'm surprised people still haven't learned not to feed the trolls. The amount of outlets reporting on this and the amount of people posting butthurt comments on the facebook page before it was deleted does nothing but fuel the flames. A wise man once said:

"Telling somebody who is trying to offend you that they are offending you, is a job well done to the person trying to offend you."

It's especially bad when every internet site I can think of besides 4chan itself has a block/ignore function. If you don't like it then filter it out and don't give it attention. I can tell you this from experience because I used to take part in a lot of this shit before I got bored of 4chan. Habbo raids/chanology/when /a/ got Erio on national TV/etc. I can tell you now it wouldn't have been half as fun if it weren't for peoples' reactions.

Don't feed the fuckin' trolls. Get it through your thick skulls already. Oh what am I kidding, no one's gonna listen to me anyway.

 

[Kathinka]

snip

Oh no doubt it started as trolling. What I'm saying is that something good actually might come of it. People are just getting salty because their hugbox is getting rocked. If a celebrity or god knows who puts a picture of themselves online for everyone to see and use, ridiculous photoshops of all manner are part of the deal. That includes unwanted "fixes" of their looks. Just because one is comfortable with some aspect of themselves does not mean that everybody has to be.

Of course it's all a matter of perspective and your mileage may vary. That picture of the woman in the black swimsuit you linked for example. You say "fit", I'd say "obese". Not morbidly, and not a "fat whale" by any stretch, but "fit" isn't what I'd say, and losing a bit of weight would certainly not hurt her health, aside from making her more conventionally attractive to most. Doesn't mean she should feel terrible about how she is now.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Oh no doubt it started as trolling. What I'm saying is that something good actually might come of it. People are just getting salty because their hugbox is getting rocked. If a celebrity or god knows who puts a picture of themselves online for everyone to see and use, ridiculous photoshops of all manner are part of the deal. That includes unwanted "fixes" of their looks. Just because one is comfortable with some aspect of themselves does not mean that everybody has to be.

I seriously doubt any good will come out of it. It's born out of remarkably bad faith.

How many of these photos were actually put up by them though? Out of all of the pictures of me on the internet, most of them are not posted by me on my facebook. If someone wanted to shame me for being fat (which they wouldn't because I'm neither a woman nor overweight) I couldn't have done a thing to prevent it. Besides possibly demand that everyone with pictures of me takes them down.

Also, the amount of arrogance it requires for someone to take someone's appearance and say "This is how you need to look for me to feel comfortable" is astounding.

Of course it's all a matter of perspective and your mileage may vary. That picture of the woman in the black swimsuit you linked for example. You say "fit", I'd say "obese". Not morbidly, and not a "fat whale" by any stretch, but "fit" isn't what I'd say, and losing a bit of weight would certainly not hurt her health, aside from making her more conventionally attractive to most. Doesn't mean she should feel terrible about how she is now.

Probably not the paragon of fitness, but she looks like someone who requires a decent amount of physical activity to maintain her appearance. Someone whose weight is not going to compromise their health. The problem is that she'd never be able to achieve the fixed photoshop version of her appearance just because of the way her skeletal structure is set. Actually, a lot of these photos are taking people to unhealthy low levels of body fat. This isn't about helping people with health, or self esteem, it's about fixing people who you think look gross. (General you, not you specifically).

The fact that they're targeting healthy people who are fine with the way they look just makes it all the more blatant.

 

[Kathinka]

snip

I don't see any photoshopped version in your post. I would be curious about it, but I seriously can't find it. Feeling dumb now. D:

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

snip

I don't see any photoshopped version in your post. I would be curious about it, but I seriously can't find it. Feeling dumb now. D:

Here's the photoshopped version:

Spoiler

Meghan Trainor's was a lot worse though. Looks like they think she should have plastic surgery too

Spoiler

 

[Areloch]

Ok, I keep seeing the images used in this described as "private".

So could someone clarify for me: were the images put on private pages, and someone took them and used them? Or were they posted up on a public page, and taken and used?

Because those are not the same situation.

(Also, please stop using potentially humiliating photoshops and stalking and harassment as equals. They're not)

 

[Kathinka]

snip

Ah, is ee. Thanks.

I wouldn't describe this as impossible though. I've seen people lose a silly amount of weight, and the results were absolute changes in looks. I think you underestimate how much of a person is really chub and how little is bones.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Ah, is ee. Thanks.

I wouldn't describe this as impossible though. I've seen people lose a silly amount of weight, and the results were absolute changes in looks. I think you underestimate how much of a person is really chub and how little is bones.

For a lot of people I'd agree, but her weight isn't flabby. Hell, she has less of a gut than I do, and I'd be hard pressed to find anyone who'd say I'm overweight. If she was a guy, most people wouldn't even suggest she was out of the ordinary, they'd just call her stocky. I'd be very surprised if she could get her hips that narrow, because she looks like she has pretty wide hips.

In either case, she's happy with her weight, it's not adverse to her health, and her weight is nobody's business but her own.

 

[Dizchu]

Don't feed the fuckin' trolls. Get it through your thick skulls already. Oh what am I kidding, no one's gonna listen to me anyway.

I find this to be a very unrealistic expectation. Do you honestly think that my friend, upon discovering that a photo her friend took of her was not only published on a public page with thousands of followers for all to see, but digitally manipulated with a side-by-side comparison to suggest that she "didn't look good enough", should have just said to herself "well, trolls will be trolls"?

Project Harpoon have presented an ultimatum. "If you are overweight, don't take pictures of yourself or we will mock you". That goes beyond trolling into delusional sadism. This is not the same 4chan that did Project Chanology, it's not the same 4chan that went after the Steubenville rapists when the justice system failed. It's not even the same 4chan that funded The Fine Young Capitalists. This is a group of pathetic cowards who wouldn't dare express these things in public, hiding behind their keyboards, cracked versions of Photoshop and avatars featuring the trashy moeblob of the week. Scratching their neckbeards with cheese-stained fingers wondering why girls won't talk to them.

 

[someguy1231]

1. If you intentionally post a photo of yourself online, on a public site, for all to see, you have no right to complain of "invasion of privacy" if people start using that photo for things you don't like. Period.

2. If it's acceptable to photoshop thin people into fat people, then it's also acceptable to photoshop fat people into thin people. To claim otherwise for any reason is supporting a blatant double standard. Period.

3. Photoshopping someone's picture in a way they don't like is not "harassment" (provided it's publicly available). Period.

 

[Ryotknife]

You have no expectations of privacy in a public environment. You also shouldn't be crying 'harassment' if you had to search out people being mean about you. If these guys were sending their shoops to the people involved, I think that would cross lines. If it's just about people that are upset someone dare mock them, then get over yourselves.

This, I can agree with. It's like the difference between telling somebody she's an ugly cow and telling your friend, in private, that this fat girl you saw was ugly.

On a sidenote, I've always wondered what people expect fat models to do. Clothing companies need models to show off their clothing, right? And A model has to show confidence in her looks, right?

I thought models had to look pissed, like they want the world to bathe in hellfire.

At least thats the impression I always get when watching fashion models walk down the catwalk, but that might be for the more artsy fartsy type of fashion models.

On topic: there are some things that bother me about the fat acceptance movement (ps im overweight too). People shouldnt be shamed or harassed for being fat, sure, but being fat is not something that should be celebrated either. The original "video game characters being photoshopped into looking fatter" also irked me in a technical/context way. Lets take Helena. Sure she look attractive from my point of view, but now she has a wrestler type body when she is a dancer, and there is already a female wrestler with that body type. Tifa, at least in the movies, looks asian and has a more normal looking body. The photoshopping was originally meant to raise awareness for Bulimia, which fair enough. Except many of the females had a healthy body pre shopped. A few had unrealistic bodies, but in a stylisic fashion. Kinda like how every male in Starcraft 2 is ripped as fuck, that is just the style.

 

[Dizchu]

So could someone clarify for me: were the images put on private pages, and someone took them and used them? Or were they posted up on a public page, and taken and used?

While their focus was on photoshopping professional plus-sized models, they also stalked people's Tumblr and Facebook accounts for images to manipulate.

Out of curiosity, would it be okay to digitally manipulate and redistribute someone's artwork without their permission? People seem to be more than willing to throw the rights of photographers out the window but does it apply to drawn art too?

If so, what's the point of public domain photos? Why search for stock photos when you can use pretty much anything anyone has taken a picture of? Why not use images found on Google and claim them as your own? I don't get why personal photos suddenly become fair game?

1. If you intentionally post a photo of yourself online, on a public site, for all to see, you have no right to complain of "invasion of privacy" if people start using that photo for things you don't like. Period.

2. If it's acceptable to photoshop thin people into fat people, then it's also acceptable to photoshop fat people into thin people. To claim otherwise for any reason is supporting a blatant double standard. Period.

3. Photoshopping someone's picture in a way they don't like is not "harassment" (provided it's publicly available). Period.

1. So what you're saying is that people should stop using the internet for social networking?

2. It's not acceptable either way, but at least the original set of images used fictional characters.

3. Why not? Can I take photos of people I find in the street, post them around for all to see? Is that okay? Why do release forms exist? When you redistribute private photos with the intention of mockery, inviting the scrutiny of thousands of viewers, how is that not harassment?

 

[VanQ]

I find this to be a very unrealistic expectation. Do you honestly think that my friend, upon discovering that a photo her friend took of her was not only published on a public page with thousands of followers for all to see, but digitally manipulated with a side-by-side comparison to suggest that she "didn't look good enough", should have just said to herself "well, trolls will be trolls"?

Project Harpoon have presented an ultimatum. "If you are overweight, don't take pictures of yourself or we will mock you". That goes beyond trolling into delusional sadism. This is not the same 4chan that did Project Chanology, it's not the same 4chan that went after the Steubenville rapists when the justice system failed. It's not even the same 4chan that funded The Fine Young Capitalists. This is a group of pathetic cowards who wouldn't dare express these things in public, hiding behind their keyboards, cracked versions of Photoshop and avatars featuring the trashy moeblob of the week. Scratching their neckbeards with cheese-stained fingers wondering why girls won't talk to them.

Regardless of who or what they are, their intention is to offend. And you're the one giving them the pleasure of knowing you're offended. Photos you publish on facebook are made public as soon as they're up there, and you agree to that by signing up to facebook in the first place. If you don't want your photos to be available to the public, maybe you should set your profile to private or stop uploading them to a public place. And before you try to use the argument that it's a place to store your photos, there are plenty of private alternatives.

I don't know what anime has to do with this, but it's nice to know you're mad enough to start placing the blame on people that have anime avatars. That's real great of ya. I'm sure that there's at least one Project Harpoon person enjoying your anger thoroughly.

Out of curiosity, would it be okay to digitally manipulate and redistribute someone's artwork without their permission? People seem to be more than willing to throw the rights of photographers out the window but does it apply to drawn art too?

Why would there be anything wrong with this? I do it all the time. I've photoshopped Critical Miss comics before. I've also photoshopped fan art of characters I saved where the original artist missed a detail or got something wrong. For example, one of my favourite characters had a gorgeous piece of art of them drawn, her eyes are normally green but the artist who is blue/green colorblind drew her with blue eyes. I changed them to green because it bothered me. Of course I never take credit for their work or profit off them.

The one line that I think it becomes wrong is when a professional artist has their name stained because of it. There is a famous political comic artist who had his work shopped by /pol/ to say some pretty shitty things. He's now infamous for being a racist even though he's not.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

So could someone clarify for me: were the images put on private pages, and someone took them and used them? Or were they posted up on a public page, and taken and used?

While their focus was on photoshopping professional plus-sized models, they also stalked people's Tumblr and Facebook accounts for images to manipulate.

Out of curiosity, would it be okay to digitally manipulate and redistribute someone's artwork without their permission? People seem to be more than willing to throw the rights of photographers out the window but does it apply to drawn art too?

If so, what's the point of public domain photos? Why search for stock photos when you can use pretty much anything anyone has taken a picture of? Why not use images found on Google and claim them as your own? I don't get why personal photos suddenly become fair game?

Are the photos behind a paywall or are the shoopers selling the photos? If the pictures are getting sold, then it's not covered by fair use. If the pictures came from behind a paywall, then the originals could be taken down, though the shops by themselves wouldn't be if it could be argued that they are different enough.

 

[BreakfastMan]

I don't know what anime has to do with this, but it's nice to know you're mad enough to start placing the blame on people that have anime avatars. That's real great of ya. I'm sure that there's at least one Project Harpoon person enjoying your anger thoroughly.

So fucking what? They are pieces of shit, the lot of them. Let's care about the people hurt, perhaps? I mean, is empathy too hard to ask? Let those sociopathic idiots get their chuckles and know they are hated by the rest of the internet community.