The Felicia Day/Destructoid situation

[Evan Waters]

I agree with everything you said OP.

"Miss Day" does nothing. In fact, the video series she's popular for just focused a sitcom around a game. A game, mind you, that isn't even real. She's not adding to any specific game, she's just there to entertain the community. Oh, and now she's doing Let's Plays just to keep the fanbase going. Like we didn't have enough of those.

She's not even a journalist, nor does she give any insight to designers. She's just a glorified fan. Even CHOBOT has more on her.

and are there not alot of guys who are pretty much the same? why don;t they come under such criticsm

To me, they are. Most Let's Players and show creators especially. For instance, unless someone can tell me what Michael Shanks does, he just made a good geeky show. Nothing more.

Well, if we ignore the premise that her show about gaming doesn't actually add anything to gaming (Which is wrong btw, but there is an easier way to deconstruct this argument), she is in fact "Adding to any specific game" because she is in fact a voice actor for multiple games.

But the voice acting came BECAUSE of her fandom videos. Not before. She didn't WANT to be a voice-actor. They just thought it'd be a cool cameo because she's everywhere and gets worshiped yet does nothing.

Except, you know, act, and write an entire web series and such.

Here's a question. Why does she HAVE to prove any kind of True Gamer Cred to anyone? Would it be so wrong if her perceived geekiness were just a foot in the door to an acting career? What damage would be done? This isn't a church, or a political party, we don't need to look for wolves in sheep's clothing.

What kind of criteria does she need to produce? What business is it of Ryan Perez?

Seriously, the woman is being criticized for becoming famous within a specific subculture and using that niche to get work. The acting business is, in case you haven't noticed, RIDICULOUSLY competitive, and focusing on a niche to sell yourself is probably the least unethical way to get ahead in it short of being discovered at a laundromat.

 

[mindlesspuppet]

Ever think she's acting like a gamer because she's not attractive enough to be a leading lady and not talented enough to be a dramatic actress?

This sort of thing isn't helping your case any. It's inaccurate in a way that's immediately obvious to anyone with an internet connection [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1260407/] and fails to address the core issue re: people not getting their jimmies rustled over whether Nathan Fillion/Vin Diesel/Will Wheaton et al. have demonstrated sufficient nerdiness. ("Okay, Vin Diesel, you claim to be a D&D player, so answer me this: as a 10th level 3.5 character using only materials provided in the PHB, MM, and DMG, how do you break the wish economy? You have one minute to answer.")

Feel free to call me an idiot, but what exactly is made obvious by her IMDB page? That she's gotten more work after The Guild? Or that aside from her recurring role on a SyFy show (which would no doubt want her for to garner her 'nerd' audience) she's pretty much only had minor guess starring roles in TV shows?

People don't get their "jimmies rustled" over Tricia Helfer being doing game voices and being at expos either, because she doesn't try to act like she's "one of us".

Nathan Fillion doesn't pimp himself out to gamers, quite the opposite in fact, he tends to tell us to shut up from time to time.

Pretty certain Vin Diesel could answer that, he seems to be somewhat of an anomaly.

Do people like Will Wheaton?

 

[Veldt Falsetto]

Hmm... I wonder what Ryan Perez has "provided to gaming." Oh, wait, nobody asks that question because he has a Y chromosome and it's not a good question.

Only...Ryan Perez is a reviewer for a web magazine and Felicia Day is famous for doing web comedies about gaming, who also runs a weekly series called Vaginal Fantasy and starred in a Bioware game.

While she obviously has contributed more to gaming than Perez, this is clearly NOT a matter of sexism but I remember the community outrage when that Jessica Chobot from IGN was announced to be in Mass Effect 3, no one raged when Felicia was in Dragon Age 2. This is just one guy questioning why Felicia is so famous on the web and in all honesty, that's probably the where the sexism lies, in the fact that she's female. Jim Sterling from this site and Destructoid gets questioned all the time, people say MUCH worse than what Perez said about Day but because Felicia has female tits as opposed to fatty man ones everyone's in outrage and I think it's pathetic that when a journalist says such a throw away remark in private about a woman the internet points the finger and calls him sexist

Felicia Day doesn't represent a gaming publication. Chobot does, and she's no actress to boot. With her involvement, it looked like BioWare was bribing IGN in broad daylight, in front of everybody. Now, I don't know about you, but I like my gaming scores rigged to 8.9 behind closed doors.

No, it's not about her being female (not the way you think). Imagine if a film critic attacked Howard Shore or Hans Zimmer by saying: "What do you actually do for film? Did you film anything? You're just a glorified street performer!" You can bet your ass he'd get chewed out.

I agree with your Chobot thing, Felicia is actually an actress so it's all fair enough but honestly, questioning famous composers about what they've done for films is completely different from asking an actress who is treated like a gaming celebrity even though she has very little to do with the actual industry.

You can't compare the two, it's like you're asking both Hitchcock and someone who enjoys films what they contribute to cinema, obviously Hitchcock contribute more than the film-goer.

 

[GM.Casper]

There's a new defense tactic for sexist asholes apparently. When someone calls them out on their bullshit, they now use the 'oh you are just 'white knight'/feminazi if you accuse me of being sexist'.

 

[Evan Waters]

I agree with your Chobot thing, Felicia is actually an actress so it's all fair enough but honestly, questioning famous composers about what they've done for films is completely different from asking an actress who is treated like a gaming celebrity even though she has very little to do with the actual industry.

So, composers contribute to their industry but performers don't? Odd line to draw there.

 

[sabercrusader]

I don't think he really deserved to be fired for it, but it was totally uncalled for. Anyone could just as easily ask what he did that's so important to the medium. Regardless if his questions had some validity or not, that was certainly not the way to express them. Very unprofessional. Either way, I kinda like Felicia Day, and while I can't really say how she's contributed to the medium, she hasn't really hurt it either, so really, she's just kinda there. Nothing wrong with that honestly.

 

[Ruzinus]

Wait a sec, they fired a guy for asking a question? Has the whole world been P-whipped?

Being a prick or not, he asked a simple question, and because he asked it towards a women everyone got sensitive and Perez became the villain.

I'm sorry, this isn't like when that one sexist and racist DJ called a bunch of women from women's basketball "nappy headed hoes,' this is completely different.

He asked a questions that is honestly on a lot of peoples minds towards a lot of women in gaming. The fact is the industry wants more women involved, but name me a female personality in gaming that isn't "cute" at least and I'll show you the only reason they have their jobs. So the industry is sexist to begin with and firing a man that asked such a simple question is OUTRAGES!

OUT-FUCKING-RAGES!!

"JUSTIFY YOUR EXISTENCE TO ME YOU WORTHLESS BOOTH-BABE!" doesn't carry any sort of sexist undertones to it?

Umm, I've read his question he said:

"could you be considered nothing more than a glorified booth babe? You don't seem to add anything creative to the medium."

What you did there was blantantly place additional words into a person's mouth to villify them.

Do you not see how FUCKING wrong that is?

Don't comment back! I'm not interested in arguing with someone that can't even read a simple twitter message correctly..>>

He also said, "Do you matter at all?" as a direct question.

I don't see any semantic difference between doing that and saying, "Justify your existence."

 

[Knobody13]

She's and actress lol
her job is to bring OTHER peoples creativity to life
(yes i know acting can be a creative process too, but this is far less relevant in games)
that's like blaming paint for not being creative, or contributing anything new to painting.

As for him getting fired, Destructoid prides itself on open-minded, intelligent, and creative content providers. This is not the kind of discourse they want associated with their name in any way. In regards to it being his private account, he posted it TO Felicia Day, on her twitter. That means, 2 MILLION people heard him say that she had no value other than being a pair of breasts to be oogled by gamers. Personally I think Destructoid made the right choice.

 

[Veldt Falsetto]

I agree with your Chobot thing, Felicia is actually an actress so it's all fair enough but honestly, questioning famous composers about what they've done for films is completely different from asking an actress who is treated like a gaming celebrity even though she has very little to do with the actual industry.

So, composers contribute to their industry but performers don't? Odd line to draw there.

She's been in..what 1 set of DLC for 1 game? Ok then, it's like asking an extra in a film what they contribute.

Serious, she's a film and tv actress, the only reason she is a gaming celebrity is because she likes them and she's a girl. I would be completely on the other side of the fence is he had said this to some high profile game actress but Day hasn't contributed much, if anything to gaming. TV and film maybe but seeing as he commented on gaming and he's a game reviewer he has the right and reason to say it, maybe not on twitter or to her face or whatever but still he has a point.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Ever think she's acting like a gamer because she's not attractive enough to be a leading lady and not talented enough to be a dramatic actress?

This sort of thing isn't helping your case any. It's inaccurate in a way that's immediately obvious to anyone with an internet connection [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1260407/] and fails to address the core issue re: people not getting their jimmies rustled over whether Nathan Fillion/Vin Diesel/Will Wheaton et al. have demonstrated sufficient nerdiness. ("Okay, Vin Diesel, you claim to be a D&D player, so answer me this: as a 10th level 3.5 character using only materials provided in the PHB, MM, and DMG, how do you break the wish economy? You have one minute to answer.")

Feel free to call me an idiot, but what exactly is made obvious by her IMDB page? That she's gotten more work after The Guild? Or that aside from her recurring role on a SyFy show (which would no doubt want her for to garner her 'nerd' audience) she's pretty much only had minor guess starring roles in TV shows?

People don't get their "jimmies rustled" over Tricia Helfer being doing game voices and being at expos either, because she doesn't try to act like she's "one of us".

Nathan Fillion doesn't pimp himself out to gamers, quite the opposite in fact, he tends to tell us to shut up from time to time.

Pretty certain Vin Diesel could answer that, he seems to be somewhat of an anomaly.

Do people like Will Wheaton?

You are just assuming she is 'acting' like one of us. Male celebrity gamers don't seem to have to prove themselves so why should female gamers.

The same thing happened with Aisha Tyler when she presented for Ubisoft at E3

 

[mindlesspuppet]

Here's a question. Why does she HAVE to prove any kind of True Gamer Cred to anyone? Would it be so wrong if her perceived geekiness were just a foot in the door to an acting career? What damage would be done? This isn't a church, or a political party, we don't need to look for wolves in sheep's clothing.

That's kind of the topic at hand. Many people see her as doing this. We usually couldn't care less. If it's okay to use her "perceived geekiness" as "a foot in the door to an acting career", then what's wrong with calling her out on it? If she's willing to use gamer stereotypes in her favor, then why is it when someone uses them against her they are suddenly sexist?

Seriously, the woman is being criticized for becoming famous within a specific subculture and using that niche to get work. The acting business is, in case you haven't noticed, RIDICULOUSLY competitive, and focusing on a niche to sell yourself is probably the least unethical way to get ahead in it short of being discovered at a laundromat.

This thread seems to have turned in to her fans vs people that hate her, and completely ignoring the Destructoid situation. The issue is here is whether or not Ryan Perez' question had merit to it: I think by your own words it does. Felicia Day isn't some nice little girl that the internet pushed from obscurity into the lime light, she is an opportunistic girl that's used a niche demographic for her own advantage. As such, she should be prepared, and deserves to be asked, questions that aren't always going to be flattering.

 

[michael87cn]

Recently Destructoid writer Ryan Perez made a couple comments about Felicia Day on his Twitter account

''Ryan?s questions to Felicia were as follows: ?I keep seeing [you] everywhere. Question: Do you matter at all? Do you even provide anything useful to gaming, besides ?personality?? could you be considered nothing more than a glorified booth babe? You don?t seem to add anything creative to the medium.?''

Following total uproar Ryan was pressured into resigning from his position with Destructoid as D-toid issued apologies to Miss Day. Other figures such as Adam Baldwin and Wil Wheaton have come out in support of Felicia. But quite frankly...isn't he right? What of substance has she contributed to the gaming medium?

While some of his comments could be interpreted as insulting he made a valid point that much of the gaming community has echoed previously. And besides that,it was his private Twitter which was in no way associated with D-toid and he never claimed he spoke for D-toid. People now flock to his Twitter, calling him ''sick'' and a ''misogynist'' (the latter is quite confusing as he never made any comment that was anti-woman,simply anti-Day). Does a man deserve to lose his job for some opinions he holds privately?

What obligation does Felicia Day have to "provide anything useful"? What obligation do YOU have? What obligation does anyone have? And does anyone do it for free?

My answer is none and no. In that order respectively. Just because someone becomes well-known or 'famous' doesn't mean they now have some kind of responsibility to better 'gaming'. . .

What a silly notion. Where did it come from?

I can safely say I've never heard of this Ryan guy. That means, from my perspective Felicia has done more than he has. She has provided entertainment. He apparently is just a random jerk.

 

[Cheesepower5]

I recall numerous forum posts complaining about people like Neil Patrick Harris and Will Wheaton not deserving big spots on E3 because of not really representing gaming, I'm not going to dig weeks back into every game tabloid's comments and forum posts to link you specific examples.

Not analogous. Notice how that sort of criticism didn't involve terminology like "glorified booth babe," and didn't involve raging at them for being visible in gaming at all.

I doubt it would, as I've never seen a male "booth babe."

Precisely. This type of criticism is generally not leveled at men involved in games, and when it is, it is not presented in a way that belittles the men in an explicitly gendered way.

Gender specific isn't gender hating. It's not sexism it's... Well, it's just ignorant.

Public Service Announcement: Don't call shit like this sexist kids! It totally undermines the meaning when you use it on REAL sexists like Rush Limbaugh or the Islamic extremists.

Let's put it this way: I can assure you (based on past experience) that it sucks to get hit in the face with a hockey stick. It also sucks (but not as much) when I stub my toe. The fact that stubbing my toe is not as painful as getting hit in the face with a hockey stick doesn't mean I don't avoid stubbing my toe where possible.

I would totally respect that if all this righteous outrage was just keeping yourself, or just keeping anyone from being hurt. But all it did was get an apologetic guy who fucked up out one career and "saved" someone who didn't need saving. All the evidence I've seen seems to indicate that Felicia Day took it as someone as reasonable as she seems should: In stride. It didn't bring her down.

And now all I see on the interwebs is accusations of sexism and a few things that legitimately deserve it. I find it frustrating, is all. I'm sure you can understand that, since in all likelihood that's why you get such a negative reaction out of trolls. To some people shitstorms are just shitstorms and to some people trolls are just trolls.

 

[Evan Waters]

I agree with your Chobot thing, Felicia is actually an actress so it's all fair enough but honestly, questioning famous composers about what they've done for films is completely different from asking an actress who is treated like a gaming celebrity even though she has very little to do with the actual industry.

So, composers contribute to their industry but performers don't? Odd line to draw there.

She's been in..what 1 set of DLC for 1 game? Ok then, it's like asking an extra in a film what they contribute.

No, it's like asking an ACTOR what they contribute. Voice acting is acting even if it's one role in one game. THAT IS A CONTRIBUTION. John Cazale was in a handful of films before he died of cancer. He contributed to the world of film.

Serious, she's a film and tv actress, the only reason she is a gaming celebrity is because she likes them and she's a girl.

AND because of The Guild, which is the thing that got her noticed. Which is about a bunch of people playing a game. So there's that.

 

[Don Savik]

This all is really rather stupid. Instead of smart, informative comments to give this Mr. Perez guy an understanding about Felicia Day, you all go 'Sexist Misogynistic Pig' on the guy. Which in turns makes you all look like sexist misandristic behavior.

I hear a lot about Felicia Day, but do I know anything about her? No. And if I asked her that, or anyone else, I expect to be enlightened. Because yes, in some aspects, someone that knows nothing will see her as a 'glorified booth babe' as he says. If I didn't know anything about Nathan Fillon, I'd call him a 'glorified booth dude'. But I know some things about him, so I really can't.

Instead of getting him fired, which ultimately was an overreacted response, he should have been given all the information regarding what Felicia Day has done.

Quite disgusting how it was handled.

I agree with you.

You know what we shouldn't do to people who call others names?

Call them names.

Fighting fire with fire makes us all look like retards. I'm pretty sure everyone thinks negatively about at least ONE person on the planet. I'm pretty sure we've been guilty of "attacking" someone we disagree with, so stop acting like we're above it.

People can't have a negative opinion these days without rustling everyone jimmies. Such is the internet hate machine.

 

[TAdamson]

So good job pointing out Felicia Day is an actress. Ever think she's acting like a gamer because she's not attractive enough to be a leading lady and not talented enough to be a dramatic actress?

Nope. First she pretty hot. But then that is subjective as you pointed out...

And why would she "act" like a gamer?

And WTF is a "gamer"?

Is someone who plays games a "gamer"? Felicia Day plays games.

People don't get their "jimmies rustled" over Tricia Helfer being doing game voices and being at expos either, because she doesn't try to act like she's "one of us".

Excuse me? "One of us"? Why would she want to pretend to be anything like you?

Is it the attitude of "gamers" to exclude people on the basis of some pre-conceived notion of what a gamer "is" or "isn't"? I was under the impression that being a gamer was a fucking hobby. You know, something that you can have different levels of commitment to like golf or rock-climbing?

Apparently mindlesspuppet gets to decide who's a gamer or not...

If you're a fair and accurate representation of "gamers" then I don't want to be a "gamer".

 

[Vault101]

http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2012/07/01/the-wreck-of-the-s-s-censorship-or-how-writers-steer-their-careers-into-the-rocks/

somone already posted this here...but it was bloody brilliant

 

[Kahunaburger]

I would totally respect that if all this righteous outrage was just keeping yourself, or just keeping anyone from being hurt.

Using a toe stubbing analogy, here's what happened:

1. A Destructroid intern stubs his toe.
2. ITT, some people say "that guy sure stubbed his toe!"
3. Also ITT, some people say "that guy didn't stub his toe! It doesn't count as toe stubbing unless there's blood everywhere!"

Ever think she's acting like a gamer because she's not attractive enough to be a leading lady and not talented enough to be a dramatic actress?

("Okay, Vin Diesel, you claim to be a D&D player, so answer me this: as a 10th level 3.5 character using only materials provided in the PHB, MM, and DMG, how do you break the wish economy? You have one minute to answer.")

Ahem, it is simple, wish allows you to wish for any magical item, it does not put a GP limit on it while it is specific in how expensive a NONmagical item can be, thus you can use a wish to gain an item of unlimited wishes. Thank you.

Though...yeah...the guy you are quoting...should really just stop talking.

My sentiments exactly haha.