The Final Fantasy VII Remake is a Fantasy

[aithilin]

Why do people want an FFVII remake? They can just play FFVII.

Why buy something you already have?

Nostalgia. A lot of people think that the latest generation of consoles are great and only the "best" games will appear on them. Since FF7 has so many fans willing to look past the dodgy story, the weaker characters, and laughable dramatic moments, they let the rose colored nostalgia tell them that "OMG! It would be so much cooler!"

Of course the explorations would be a great element, but it'd be an empty world. There may be fewer battles to grind xp from in the overworld. There'd likely be a forced linear path, so you can't just wander into the Golden Saucer for some mini-games when you don't feel like going through the story. The Materia collecting and Weapons quests would likely be removed or shoehorned into the story so they fit into the linear path.

In any case, that "It was a great game" nostalgia blinds the fanboys to common sense. It'd be expensive to remake, it wouldn't be the same game, and the latest graphics would make half of what was fun in the original game be completely impossible.

But if they want to throw money at Square Enix, good on them.

 

[Delusibeta]

Remakes to modern standards do take quite a bit of time, I realise that *points to Black Mesa*. But comparing Black Mesa to a FF7 remake is unfair, since the former is a mod where the end product will be available for £0.00[footnote]assuming the team doesn't do a Garry's Mod[/footnote], while the latter will be a AAA game which will cost £40 (or more) at launch. And I would imagine it would sell very well. That said, if in doubt, cop out (read: make a DS remake).

 

[wooty]

You know, I'm going to say thank you Shamus, that explanation put it perfectly. As a self confessed rabid fanboy of the series (VII in particular), I would of loved to see them do this game again, but youve put into a more realistic light for me.

Besides, we dont need the remake when we've got the origional version of the game that warranted all the sequels, prequels, movies and even spawned up the speculation and want of a modern remake.

 

[ResiEvalJohn]

I've said this before and I'll say it again - They could "theoretically" do a remake if they wanted to, which they just don't. Think about the last two games in the franchise - FF12 and FF13. If they had concentrated on an FF7 remake, instead of FF12 and FF13, then they certainly could have done it!

FF12 had some amazingly huge "nonlinear" environments, even though they were still PS2 graphics, those graphics are more than sufficient for an FF7 remake on the world map! As far as the airship flying was concerned, they could do the same thing as FF10 and FF12 - Show a topographic map of the world and the players can choose a location to land on the map by just pointing and clicking.

FF13 proves that they COULD do the cast for FF7 if they wanted to. As far as bringing the original characters to life - yeah, it's possible! Just look at what they did for the characters they created in FF13! They already made a full living breathing cast there, why not do it for the cast of FF7?

Hell, even if PS3 graphics are too difficult and expensive to reproduce for the whole game, why not take them down a small notch to PS2 levelish graphics? They don't have to be perfect ya know, just "updated" and refreshing to fans and newcomers.

So my point is, if they didn't make the last two final fantasy games, or even the last 3 FF games, and concentrated on an FF7 remake instead, they definitely could have done it. It's not impossible, just inconvenient due to the budget and everything.

I understand Square's issues but c'mon! The Resident Evil and Metal Gear Solid remakes proved that remakes of popular classic games can sell like hotcakes! You don't even have to stay 100% true to the originals. You can change a lot of areas, rooms, and cut scenes, keeping things new and interesting for fans as well. Even people who dislike FF7 cannot disagree that a remake would sell very well for newcomers and fans alike. It is a shame.

 

[ResiEvalJohn]

I think it's less that people specifically want VII remade, and more a combination of things.

Older games had limitations, but in some ways those limitations gave the creators more freedom to sculpt captivating worlds and stories. Once you have to start rendering every blade of grass, it's a lot harder to convince your bosses that the giant meadow is absolutely necessary because it'll cost 2 million bucks in assets and time.

What we as fans want is that same level of effort and freedom but with the benefit of the new graphics package, and unfortunately by and large that's not what happens; we end up with XIII and excuses like "we can't figure out how to render towns! waah!".

Enough said why we're upset.

Ya know, that's pretty much my feeling exactly. How ironic that some older games (FF7) feel like we have more freedom than newer games (FF13)! You'd think that better graphics make bigger, freer worlds, but usually the opposite is true. This is also why I'm losing interest in gaming with the PS3 - most of the games are just like - go from point A to B and kill all the stuff in the middle (except GTA4). I think I'm gonna get a new hobby pretty soon cuz these NewGen games aren't satisfying me.

 

[Chrinik]

Friend of mine, big FF fan, told me a few weeks ago that there "Is a Hi-Def FF7 for free in the PS Store."
At first I was like "Oh, did they finaly make it?"...
But then I realised that Free and Hi-Def don´t go hand in hand. That such a relevation would have a HUGE Impact on gamingzines all out and that gamers would fill the streets with drool.

And then I read this...
Now I will go and laugh in his face some what, because it´ll probably take YEARS to make a game like FF7 in HD and if the do they WONT EVER release it for FREE...and by then, the game is probably outdated already.

 

[Redemption003]

Only an idiot would want to make a Final Fantasy VII with FFXIII's graphics.

Hell, only an idiot would want to make Final Fantasy XIII, for that matter.

VII, however, has always been an "anime-style" game, and a modern remake would benefit from being stylized as well. It would cut down on development time significantly, and would mesh better with the adventure's sillier moments.

Screw Advent Children and bring on Kingdom Hearts.

On that note, I think I'd play a cel shaded (GOOD cel shaded, like TF2 for instance) Final Fantasy VII, with cut scenes that are basically just manga, complete with comic cells, speech bubbles, and very little animated action in the cut scenes.

Sort of like the later Tales series, where they would have dialogues inside small boxes.. but full Manga "Pages" for the cut scenes.. It's hard to make it sound good in words, but it looks good in my head.

Combat would be basically the same, except new cel shaded graphics.

If they're going to make FFVII Reboot, they need to cut corners, i just hope they cut the corners in the right places.

You mean kind of like what was done with Valkyria Chronicles? If so then I definately agree that it would work quite well.

I guess I just want a version of the game I can actually play, because FF7 has aged horribly in my eyes and whenever I try to get in to it I just can't. I'm not usually all about the graphics (I still crank up Morrowind regularly and have actually been playing "The Trap Door" lately, which was released in 1986) but FF7 is pretty much unplayable for me, which is a shame because I really want to see what I've missed out on.

 

[Krelias]

I fail to see the point of this article. A remake of Final Fantasy VII would cost a whole bunch
and take a lot of time to pull off but there's other math too be done:

Final Fantasy XIII sold 5.5 milion copies worldwide as of last month.
Advent Children sold 10.5 milion DVD's as of 2006 (don't know if the number increased since then)

Before anybody gets their panties up in a bunch i'm not comparing a game to a a movie in terms of sales figures or anything else for that matter. The point is that Advent Children's sales figure can be seen as an aproximate indication of the size of the fanbase Final Fantasy VII has when compared to the Final Fantasy series in general. So, as i said, if there's math to be done it has to be done on the marketing level as well.

and the whole size thing Is not a factor either there's plenty of current gen RPG's that roughly equal Final Fantasy VII in size (i.e. number of towns dungeons and npc's) Dragon Age for example so if other companies can dedicate so much time and money to games with no preexisitng fanbase and still turn up a profit why wouldn't Square Enix do it for a game that is guaranteed to sell like crazy ?

 

[dmase]

I never assumed it would be easy or they would be able to finish in no time without much effort. Every rationally thinking person knows time and energy have to go into making a good game. However making a FF7 game from top down would more then warrant the work. Everybody who plays final fantasy now but didn't back then will want a copy, everyone who played the original will want a copy, and then everyone who has any love for jrpgs would buy a copy.

Then when the ps4 comes out or xbox 720 they'll want it remade again.

 

[Giantcain]

Yeah well....shut up. They should make the game anyway.

That's...umm....definatly a serious argument you got there man....ya....you got me...uhh...thinking...

No ones asking a FF7 remake to look like XIII only a remake that doesn't look like ass

Grahpics aren't what make a game. There only a small part. Storyline, gameplay, characters, etc etc. Graphics weren't what fueled the other games.

You know what I find most interesting about this article?

Right underneath the link where I found there, there is the article that there is a rumor that Goldeneye 007 will be remade and possibly shown at E3.

*Facepalm*

All in the timing I guess.

Anyway, I think the biggest question from me for a business standpoint is: Would it not possibly sell out in a matter of hours?

We live in a time where games are $60, and FF VII is so god damned popular if you have video games you seem to be required to know what the hell it is.

The point is brought up that the game would need to be recreated....but isn't that what they are doing when they make a New Final Fantasy? Don't they have to redo so many things, design all the environments, and do it all over again? And even then, the game will likely only sell to so many people at best.

One can nearly Guarantee that a remade FF VII would sell out everywhere in a matter of hours, at full price, to everyone and their family.

The biggest point I'm trying to make here is: Would not the profits back from making such a game far outweigh the costs of making it?

With any remake, you have the idiotic obsessive ones that would probably wait like 3 months to get it.
Also, you do know that 60$ isn't all for Square right? Percent goes to the store, percect goes to publisher, percent goes to trademark holders, percent probably goes to Mircosoft too. So you can probably cout out atleast 40$ of what you were initaly thinking. So yea, you'll have the ones that buy it first night, will give square a few hundred mill most likely, but the costs of making a remake will probably be in the billion doller mark. You also add advertisting, westernazation, the fact of just making it on a next-gen counsel, etc etc, they'd have already spent a pretty penny, AND the time that coulda been spent making another game people would probably like better, and make more money there. Now, if they did a remake, it'd no doubt suffer from the "remake syndrom" alot of remakes suffer from. Twin Snakes would be a good example.
Alot of the devolpers probably know that, and since they want money, the risk wouldn't be that good. Like I said, they'd get atleast a bundle, but if the remake sucks, like it probably would, and word gets around quick "It sucks it sucks it sucks", the profits would no doubt dimmer greatly. Then when it comes to just people bootleging it, or pre-used sales, Square's come up short a few mill to atleast break even.
This is atleast how I look at it.

I would buy a golden eye remake simply because I never owned or played goldeneye and would like to try it but thought rare tried that but Activision said they cant remake their own game as they own the James Bond rights

 

[MiloP]

What if they're just saying all this crap, but they're working on FFVII in total secrecy so that it's a huge surprise when it gets released?

Yeah, I'm far to cynical to believe that.

 

[Dora]

Ironically, I would almost prefer a "demake" - 7 with 3's sprite graphics on the DS. I always thought they were much more expressive than 7. But then I'm old and lame, I guess.

That was an interesting read. But what I'm more curious about is why people are demanding a remake, and not new content. If the series sucks now, (which I will take everyone's word for since I haven't played Final Fantasy since 8.) why aren't we saying, "Okay, Final Fantasy is dead, why don't you guys focus all your time, money, and talent on creating something entirely new and original?" instead of saying "Why don't you focus all your time, money, and talent on resurrecting something from ye olden times?" Are people seriously that afraid of/resistant to something new that they think putting a new coat of paint on an old title is better than a completely original one?

7 is available on the PS Store, right? It's not like it's unavailable. All the things you enjoyed about it are still there for you, and if you loved it so much then, you should still enjoy it now. A visual upgrade shouldn't mean that much to you. It should be, "Oh well, it was a nice thought, at least I still have the original".

 

[Seldon2639]

FF12 had some amazingly huge "nonlinear" environments, even though they were still PS2 graphics, those graphics are more than sufficient for an FF7 remake on the world map! As far as the airship flying was concerned, they could do the same thing as FF10 and FF12 - Show a topographic map of the world and the players can choose a location to land on the map by just pointing and clicking.

This is kind of my point.

The whole "b... But the overworld" argument doesn't hold much dice with me. Aside from the occasional random encounter, and some graphics here and there, do you know what the overworld was? It was a frigging hub. You walked from one linear story environment to the next. Sure, you could backtrack sometimes, and sometimes characters changed, ect. But it would actually be easier to create the graphics of the overworld of FFVII than the legitimately sprawling environments of FFX and XII.

In X and XII, you are able to literally walk (sans airship) from one end of the world to the other, each in its own complete area. How is that easier than an overworld?

a) I thought the whole issue was that Square made a demo of VII on the PS3, and now everybody and their dog is pissy that they're not re-doing the game to that standard. If you only wanted VII with PS2 graphics, why weren't you getting pissy when the PS2 Fantasies came out?

You mean like how people have been agitating for a remake of FFVII since about the time FFX came out? How we (and I'll throw my hat in with your raving fanboys) have wanted to see an updated FFVII ever since seeing what could be done with FFX and FFXII?

We're no Johnny-come-latelys here.

b) The whole point of a remake is to take something old and bring it up to modern standards (allegedly). If you want a remake of VII, but say the graphics aren't important, then why the fuck are you asking for a remake in the first place? The only thing that has aged (seeing as this is the only area of game development that has seemingly evolved) are the graphics. If you're happy with graphics that aren't eye bleedlingly cutting edge, then play the fucking original. Despite what everyone else says, it's really not that ugly at all. If FF VI is still playable with it's 2D sprites(as many old-school Square fans on this forum have said), then VII is definitely playable with it's pre-rendered backrounds and 3D characters. It may not compare to XIII visually, but it still beats any game on the SNES.

Hoooookay. You seem to be confused. If I say "I like vanilla ice-cream, but I wish I had some sprinkles", am I saying that the sprinkles are the important part? Hell no. The ice-cream (that is, in this metaphor, the story and gameplay) is the important part, but what's wrong with also wanting sprinkles (graphics, voice acting)? FFVII is still a great game, probably one of the best, despite of its lackluster graphics. But where in that does it mean that it wouldn't be more enjoyable with better graphics? Sprinkles, ice cream, remember?

And, don't create a false dichotomy between "PS1 polyons" and "bleeding edge graphics". I'd bet most of us would be quite tickled to have PS2 (FFXII-era) graphics and voice acting.

a)Whatever a company decides to do as they're next project, it is their decision. You hold no stocks in Square, you aren't employed by them, you get zero say in what games they decide to do next. The fact so many fans feel so insulted by a lack of a remake only shows how overinflated their sense of entitlement is. Square owe you nothing.

Okay, I do have to give this to you. Though, I've never heard anyone but your straw-man say that, so...

Yes, people who consider themselves the devotees to a brand believe the brand owes them some loyalty. It's stupid, but it's human nature. *shrugs*

b) You are a simple fanboy, who in all probability has little understanding of large scale economics. Just because you say a VII remake will make lots of money, doesn't mean it will. Square have their own analysts who are trained to understand economics. If they said a VII remake would make lots of money, Square would probably do it. The fact that Square hasn't remade it yet means that their analysts don't think it would make enough of a profit to cover development costs. And sorry, but anaylst economics beats ***** fanboy economics any day of the week.

This is the only argument you really have that justifies it in any reasonable way: "I believe Sony has information which tells them they wouldn't get a positive return-on-investment for the creation of this game". What's more likely, of course, is that they have no earthly idea what kind of ROI they would get, and since it would cost more money to make a good FFVII remake than the dross they're making recently (Neir, FFXIII, ect.) the safer bet is to go cheap.

But, your assumption that the "trained experts" have some vaunted wisdom and insight that is inaccessible to laypeople is somewhat overstating it. Appeal to authority, much? Argue the figures, the reality, not "who has a better expert". Having been involved in actual market research, the point that it wouldn't be a good return for their expenditures may be valid, but to simply say "since they're professionals, they must know what they're doing" ignores all the times they've been wrong.

Ultimately, that's what all the fanboy arguments come to. "I know nothing of game development, or industry economics, but I say that a remake would be both feasible, and make lots of money. Therefore it must be so. Fuck you Square for saying otherwise."

Strictly speaking, it would be feasible (in the sense that they could make it, and no one in their right mind believes it would take a lifetime), and the question of the profitability of it is debatable. I'm curious why you're white-knighting Sony like this, though. I promise, they don't need your support.

Sorry if this post seems filled with bile. I'm simply getting fed up of having every final fantasy thread filled with stupid, fucking reduntant whiny posts from fanboys who can't get over the fact that Square aren't going to re-make their beloved VII. At the end of the day, all you're meaningless anger and frustration is over a game that's already been out for 13 years. Go play that, have fun with your materia and your oedipus complexes, and stop asking for the fucking impossible.

Not impossible. Not profitable, not reasonable, not worthwhile, maybe. Impossible? No. And I believe that much of the fan rage over Sony right now is that they're treating this like a herculean task, when no one really thinks it is. I understand the industry, and the effort it takes to make a game, but no one has been able to actually explain why a good remake of FFVII would cost more or take more time than FFXII (a good game in its own right).

Incidentally, Oedipal complexes?

 

[Jaker the Baker]

Maybe they could get Sony to contribute? A creation such as this would move consoles

 

[For.I.Am.Mad]

You know had they started it when they first showed the tech demo they'd probably be almost done by now rather than just ***** about how impossible it is.

But it cost a lot of money wah wah wah. So did Avatar, to use the auther's example, and that made almost 3 billion greenbacks. And it sucked! Native American aliens, GTFO.

 

[GodKlown]

There is a good example of this situation that stares us in the face every so often in the movie industry, and that is when they remake a classic movie in modern times. Sure, it is nice to use modern technology to make a movie a lot of people liked to make it look pretty. Take War of the Worlds. The original today looks very dated, and a lot of people would like have seen it redone with CGI and actors they can recognize. But what few consider is the subtle changes that occur when changing even a small thing. The original movie didn't cost anywhere near what the remake did, and while they tried to stay true to the overall story, small changes to reflect the times were added. Some people would say it was better, others prefer the original. So in this case, who is right in the end?

I really enjoyed the hell out of FF7 when it first got released on the PS1. I even had the game pre-ordered back in the day, and I played it so much that my brother got jealous enough to buy his own PS1 and copy of the game just so he'd get time to play it himself. I'd come home from school every day with my girlfriend at the time and we'd sit around and play it together, sometimes with her on the sidelines, other times just trading off. I still have fun memories of the Chocobo races and the vibrant world they created. While it might look dated today, the game still works on the basic level of telling a story. This is the age-old argument today of how nice a game has to look which will apparently affect the overall replayability by people in the future. But doesn't that just seem stupid? So what if it didn't have voice acting? Back then, we didn't need voice acting to tell a story. We didn't need motion capture or complete 3D environments... that game set a great standard that I don't think FF has ever reached again since. Painting that game up and adding all the newest features that today's games take for granted wouldn't improve the game at it's core.
If you glue hair and a pair of googly-eyes on a pet rock and give it USB access and an embedded MP3 voice, does that make it any better than the original? No... you just have an expensive rock that people used to enjoy back in the 70s as a novelty toy. Bringing something up to date doesn't always make it better. Car companies realize this, but it doesn't stop them from still producing old models today with more modern components in order to satisfy modern drivers. People still drive classic cars because to them, they never made those cars better than they did in the past. To each their own. They have continued to create FF games since 7, and if you prefer a more modern version of that universe, it already exists. Remaking 7 to satisfy people will not really improve the game in any way, just make it look more similar to the experiences they've had in recent times. But what happens 15 years from now? You want them to remake it again with the latest in technical innovations then? When does this vicious circle stop?
If they want an easier method to keep the gamers happy, stick with the reverse compatibility so you can at least still play it on a modern console. That was one of the larger mistakes that Sony has made by removing that feature on the latter versions of the consoles you can purchase today. I wouldn't be surprised if they developed an add-on for the PSP so you could play old PS1 games on it some day.
Progress doesn't always translate old games into better versions of the original. Look at how much they had to change Bionic Commando to get people interested in it today.

 

[For.I.Am.Mad]

Wow I just rewatched the demo. We're in a time now where it's like, 'Yeah, the PS3 could easily pull that off.' The 360 could do it too. We've come a long way......not really.

 

[RatRace123]

That's actually an answer that makes sense, that's the one that Square should've given.
Thanks for setting alot of people straight.