The generation that recreated Sexism.

[Lukirre]

Purely a discussion, I spent a little bit searching the forums and couldn't find a similar topic.

Initial question: Do you believe that our generation is recreating sexism?

I ask this to the gaming community for a reason.

It is no secret that women have a certain "special" role in most video games. Sure, there are the few that stand out (Mirror's Edge, etc), but for the most part women are awkwardly proportioned with the purpose of being loved by the male protagonist.

I play World of Warcraft, and their fanart section is often plagued with drawings of scantily clad females (and when I scantily, I mean ridiculously) in suggestive poses. And the same can be said about a lot of other pictures/video content in today's media.

But what do we call it? We tend to call it the sexual liberation of females.

So let me get this straight: Back when the rights of females were in question, this sort of objectification was highly frowned upon because it was the "men" who were just drooling over them. It was wrong.

Now, however, it's okay? Why? Because the women finally turned around and said "Hey, wait, no. I kind of liked that."

There also tends to be a rather negative view of those who fight for the rights of females. The term "feminist" is thrown around as a joke, the social stigma is so thick it's worse than marmalade on a hot day. But maybe some males are also tired of seeing the same-old bland and shameless disrespect in so many forms of media.

I bring this to you because I think this community is more level-headed than most others.

tl;dr: Do you think our generation (media) is recreating sexism under a different label?
Do you think women help perpetuate it with a sort of stockholm-syndrome?
Is anyone else tired of seeing the same-old thinly veiled objectification?

Also, I am a male.

 

[Shynobee]

Well, I think it'll turn out like the 60's to 70's era. The 60's had a very strong "sexual liberation" thing going on, as evidenced very strongly by "Bond Girls," which was followed by a backlash of a more conservative Feminist movement in the 70's.

History repeats itself quite often, and I believe our current generation will be just that.

 

[DefunctTheory]

I disagree with just about ever assumption you've made.

Women right now are more powerful than God. The law is horrendously skewed in their favor.

Their is, however, a sexism of a sort: but its the females fault, sort of. It mostly has to do with the ridiculously poor defined 'sexual harassment.' It has nothing to do with the 'sex sells' examples you provide.

And for Christ sack, its not objectification. Women pretty without clothes=people look at women with little clothing. Its that simple.

 

[TheGreatCoolEnergy]

What about movies, literature, comics, tv, hell, every other media ever made by a man about a woman?

Men liek hot women. Get over it.

 

[Dags90]

Well, I think it'll turn out like the 60's to 70's era. The 60's had a very strong "sexual liberation" thing going on, as evidenced very strongly by "Bond Girls," which was followed by a backlash of a more conservative Feminist movement in the 70's.

History repeats itself quite often, and I believe our current generation will be just that.

We're still recovering from '90's jeans and Rosie.

There are also feminists who feel that sort of thing is empowering, that using sexual influence is a way women can reach equality. The increase in desired muscle mass in men is actually partially connected to the AIDS epidemic. Large muscle was seen as a way to prove one's health (and by extension, HIV status), there was also a reaction in the general male population to avoid being emasculated.

 

[arcticphoenix95]

if you look at the female protaganist in most disney movies.........never mind.........................

 

[Lukirre]

I disagree with just about ever assumption you've made.

Women right now are more powerful than God. The law is horrendously skewed in their favor.

Their is, however, a sexism of a sort: but its the females fault, sort of. It mostly has to do with the ridiculously poor defined 'sexual harassment.' It has nothing to do with the 'sex sells' examples you provide.

And for Christ sack, its not objectification. Women pretty without clothes=people look at women with little clothing. Its that simple.

There may be certain laws that are horrendously skewed in their favour, but how many other aspects of society favours men?

"No no sir, I ain't responsible for no hatin' on no woman-folk. S'all their fault."

It kind of is objectification when all you would want to see is a woman with little clothing. Because then it's not about her as a person, it's more about her for what she looks like.

What about movies, literature, comics, tv, hell, every other media ever made by a man about a woman?

Men liek hot women. Get over it.

Yeah, sorry, I was trying to talk about media as a whole.

I understand that men like hot women. But that's like saying that it's all the woman's fault for eating disorders and whatnot because she wants to look good for all the men so they can find her suitably fuckable.

 

[ENKC]

Are you really going to judge society's views towards women by using horny teenage gamer boys who don't leave their computer screens as your sample group? Anyone who has been one of those would understand that their hormones place their brains on a constant loop of "HURR HURR BOOBIES FNAR FNAR OOH BOUNCY MMM NEKKID LADIES HELLS YES".

Gender equality has not yet been reached, but we are always moving closer.

 

[Blindswordmaster]

For a proper explanation, please see MovieBob's special on the Bond girls.
-As for my opinion, a woman can do anything mentally that a man can. Physically, well that varies from individual to individual. I treat women as equals, mostly. I still hold open doors for women and give up my seat on the bus. There are many who would consider chivalry to be sexist, thinking that this causes men to act as if women are weak. I don't give a shit, this was just the way I was raised and I have, and always will, treat women with dignity and respect. If I'm a sexist because I believe that a man should pull out a woman's chair and open the door for her, well then get me a beer and put some football on the TV.(warning, the second half of the previous statement was a joke, although I do enjoy both beer and football)

 

[Lukirre]

Are you really going to judge society's views towards women by using horny teenage gamer boys who don't leave their computer screens as your sample group? Anyone who has been one of those would understand that their hormones place their brains on a constant loop of "HURR HURR BOOBIES FNAR FNAR OOH BOUNCY MMM NEKKID LADIES HELLS YES".

Gender equality has not yet been reached, but we are always moving closer.

I was using them as an example, yes.
Because those teens are going to be a demographic that needs to be fed in the future.

 

[crepesack]

No I don't think so. Our generation, in its unprecedented interconnectedness and liberal beliefs seems to revived sexism, but not in the same sense as what what has been traditional. Our generation has taken sexism and satirized it, not knowing any true sexual distinctions in our present lives. Sexism is back, but as a joke.

 

[Blindswordmaster]

Also, concerning women making less then men in the workplace for the same job, you work for what you're willing to get paid. You want more money, ask for it. That's all I've got.

 

[AnOriginalConcept]

I think that though many women in games are indecently proportioned, they are not always objectified. Laura Croft stands out as an example of a strong femenine hero.

As for fanart... Well, there's always been porn. The merging of WoW and porn just seems like a natural evolution if you happen to like porn and WoW. I would say that WoW erotica is less harmful than real erotica because Night Elves don't care if they are objectified.

Also, there is a leap between looking at erotica and objectifying women in real life. I have anecdotal evidence which need not be posted that this is not always the case.

I've never heard of women liking this sort of stuff. I have no idea where that's coming from.

No, I do not think that sexism is coming back. It's always been there and it just shows in different ways at different times. I believe that sexism is slowly dying away.
Nope, I don't know where you got that idea. It doesn't make much sense.
I don't have a problem with it if it isn't being shoved in my face. In New York, there are story high lingerie ads. Echh.

Edit: I happen to be in the teen demographic. Some respect, please?

 

[PinkAngelKitty]

This is something that, as a female, has given me a so called "feminist's sandy vagina" for quite some time. My problem is not so much the depiction of the female body. It's a beautiful thing... and while it is often exaggerated, it doesn't bother me that they are constantly showed half-naked and disproportionate to the max.

But my answer to your question is yes.

Because of what the female characters do. Or what they seem to be incapable of doing. Thinking rationally, saving THEMSELVES from trouble. They are victims. They must be saved from other men and/or themselves. They aren't portrayed as competent, or important, only necessary, and that is a big fucking problem.

Now we've created a situation is which is it desirable for females to be completely dependent on their male counterparts. I see it all the time. More more girls my age, as soon as they get a boyfriend, simply become extensions of their boyfriends and their boyfriend's needs and personality. And how fucking sad is that? How can we ever be considered equal if we are unable to consider ourselves equal?

Being a smart, outspoken, opinionated female all of my life has presented me with a lack of acceptance when I was young. Not so much now that I am an adult who goes to university and is therefore surrounded by intelligent, likeminded individuals, but throughout high school I was rejected not only by males but other females. They couldn't relate to me. I wasn't obsessed with what boys thought of me and my sole mission in life wasn't to find some guy to take care of me.

Women need to be portrayed in the media as human beings, with a personality, faults and intellect, not simply as objects for plot advancement. Plus, more games need the option to play as a female. It's time to face facts: Girls are playing games too, and I'm tired of saving the lame love interest from some hopeless trap she fell into because she has tits instead of a brain. The story is totally lost on me when I start to question my own intellect because I also share a similar anatomical attribute.

 

[DefunctTheory]

SNIP

There may be certain laws that are horrendously skewed in their favour, but how many other aspects of society favours men?

"No no sir, I ain't responsible for no hatin' on no woman-folk. S'all their fault."

It kind of is objectification when all you would want to see is a woman with little clothing. Because then it's not about her as a person, it's more about her for what she looks like.

SNIP

Yeah, sorry, I was trying to talk about media as a whole.

I understand that men like hot women. But that's like saying that it's all the woman's fault for eating disorders and whatnot because she wants to look good for all the men so they can find her suitably fuckable.

Yet you give no examples of society that favor men at this time. Throw a few at me (American Football doesn't count).

And that attitude is EXACTLY the problem. For me to be an outstanding male of the current age, I have to STOP LOOKING AT NEARLY NUDE FEMALES. Otherwise, I'm objectifying. Well, I sir, am offended. I can look at bathing suit models and drool, and turn right around and treat women like human beings. I also believe that the majority of people here can do the same. So no, its not sexist. Its just what I like.

And yes, it is womens fault (for the most part) for eating disorders. Either that, or a specific male. Don't pin the crimes of the few against the many.

SNIP

Samus Aran, Alyx (HL2), WoW, Warhammer, Warhammer 40k (If we expanded into table top), Disgaea, Metal Slug, Muramasa (Sorta kinda), Resident Evil, Borderlands, Mass Effect.

And thats just from my puny little shelf of games. The female revolution in gaming is already here: Just give it a moment.

 

[justhereforthemoney]

Well I definitely think that the '70s were the least sexist of times. But I think feminism has given girls more respect and opportunity, but I think women are pulling back, and saying that they still want to be treated like women and not like one of the guys. So I think a lot of guys are getting confused by this, trying to find the middle ground.

 

[direkiller]

No I don't think so. Our generation, in its unprecedented interconnectedness and liberal beliefs seems to revived sexism, but not in the same sense as what what has been traditional. Our generation has taken sexism and satirized it, not knowing any true sexual distinctions in our present lives. Sexism is back, but as a joke.

And when people can make a joke about anything and no one gets offended we are truly equal

So anyone got any good Dead baby/Dumb blond/Black/ or Jew Jokes

 

[ENKC]

Are you really going to judge society's views towards women by using horny teenage gamer boys who don't leave their computer screens as your sample group? Anyone who has been one of those would understand that their hormones place their brains on a constant loop of "HURR HURR BOOBIES FNAR FNAR OOH BOUNCY MMM NEKKID LADIES HELLS YES".

Gender equality has not yet been reached, but we are always moving closer.

I was using them as an example, yes.
Because those teens are going to be a demographic that needs to be fed in the future.

I'm still not sure that I see your point. Those thoughts are purely instinctive and animalistic. They are therefore common to all heterosexual males with adequate testosterone levels. In themselves they have no bearing on treatment of women whatsoever. Upbringing and social standards are what teaches those horny teenage boys how to control their urges and how it is appropriate to act towards women.

Short version. Sexual desire is natural and unrelated to disrespecting women.

 

[TheGreatCoolEnergy]

What about movies, literature, comics, tv, hell, every other media ever made by a man about a woman?

Men liek hot women. Get over it.

Yeah, sorry, I was trying to talk about media as a whole.

I understand that men like hot women. But that's like saying that it's all the woman's fault for eating disorders and whatnot because she wants to look good for all the men so they can find her suitably fuckable.

If women are truely equal to men (which they are) than they should have a little something called self control. As far as society is concerned, all guys should be hugefrat boys, who drink all weekend and never touch a book. Does that mean I spend all my time weight lifting and getting wasted? No.

Saying "it's the media's fault" when it comes to stuff like eating disorders is the biggest, douchiest cop-out ever. Men liking attractive women cauing eating disorders makes about as much sense as saying owning a computer forces you to visit 4chan.