The generation that recreated Sexism.

[DefunctTheory]

All laws of sexual nature.
Divorce law.
Custody.
Civil Abuse.

There, four without even thinking.


This link calls your eating disorder argument horse shit [http://www.umm.edu/patiented/articles/what_causes_eating_disorders_000049_3.htm]


And actually, magazines are fairly evenly split. Not sure where your going with that. Same with movies.

"The response of the media to the cultural drive for thinness and the overproduction of food both likely play major roles in triggering obesity and eating disorders.

?On the one hand, advertisers heavily market weight-reduction programs and present anorexic young models as the paradigm of sexual desirability.
?Clothes are designed and displayed for thin bodies in spite of the fact that few women could wear them successfully."

You're right.
That article called my arguments horse shit.

I'd argue that there are more magazines that get people's attention with "sexy" females on the cover than there are with men. I mean...men's health usually has an attractive man. But that's not even a woman's magazine.

Civil Abuse laws were created because husbands wouldn't stop kicking the shit out of their wives.
Rape laws were created because men kept raping women.
Custody and divorce law can favour either or, it depends on which one can play the system better.

That link also blames genetics, parental issues, emotional disorders, and sexual abuse (something you cannot blame on men IN GENERAL). Nice try: eating disorders are too complicated to blame on one thing.

As for magazines, guess what: Sexy women are used to sell WOMENS magazines. And since these things are written by women, well, you can't exactly blame men for this one. And again, magazines are just selling what people want. They are not trying to change you, their changing to provide what you want (You being the average person, not you as in the poster).

Civil Abuse: If a wife beats her husband with a baseball bat, and he calls the police, he leaves the house. Frequently, the women is not even taken to jail, or charged. Know how I know this? because I know no less than 3 people that have had this happen. Thats fucking outrageous.

Rape Laws: Rape doesn't have to be proven to be deadly. The current system of sexual abuse law is skewed: simply being accused can fuck your life up. I've seen two women ruin men this way.

Sexual harassment: Poorly defined and hardly fair. The laws behind this basically give a women a free pass if she has a weak moral compass.

Custody: Most states will give the child to the mother if she comes to court high off her rocker and drunk as all hell. For a man to get full custody, or even primary, the mother has to be proven to be actively and purposefully harming her children in most states. As for divorce law, please.

 

[Vitor Goncalves]

Oh, don't worry Ms. Hello Kitty, I am quite in favor of your cause. I am very tired of the whole "men hold doors open for women" and all those shenanigans, and women should be getting equal pay, jobs, treatment, etc. I just think that the divorce and sexual harassment trials should be, you know, equal. Instead of the current system where women nearly always win sexual harassment lawsuits and the children from their former marriage.

I agree there are many sexual harassment fake business going on. On the other hand, ironically, you would be surprised how many men go unpunished when things climb up to rape.

AS for divorce, first women are the ones getting away with survival pensions because they usually are the ones earning much less. Doesn't happen when both earn the same or close. And children, well I say its totally mens fault (and I am a man). Men neglect a lot their role as child carer and let the women take the whole of it. Almost all men prefer to be at the pub getting drunk with friends, watch the football match or stay hours on his PC/console playing then look after the kids. Only when divorce comes they realise how much they love their children, ok not questioning we don't love our children, but surely we should spend the same time with them as their mothers do, and then we could have a strong case in court.

 

[PinkAngelKitty]

Sexism is supposed to be about blatantly disrespecting someone of the opposite sex.

Right now sexism is whenever a women doesn't like attention from certain people.

Yes, that might sound bitter. That's just because I am.

Pretty much any statement about media being sexist towards women can be turned around to show its sexist towards men to.

Rap music calling women bitches? Rap music making men look like greedy sex obsessed freaks.

Movies and TV setting an unfair standard of beauty? Have you seen the men in tv shows? The average show that has unfairly beautiful women has unfairly beautiful men. They are usually dumb as bricks to the both of them.

Video games unfairly using women as plot devices? Men once again being unrealistically attractive, setting unfair standards, and still they are usually dumb as bricks.

My favorite is when people bring up porn as being sexist showing women as nothing but objects. You know, because the men depicted are not shown as stupid manipulative sex obsessed studs.

No, I'm not calling for all this to be banned and censored. I'm calling for people to stop giving such a shit and think for themselves.

I'm sorry... but is your point that all women deserve to be punished for the actions of a few and because the (most likely) MEN who are in control of the law decided to favour women? Cuz that's kind of what your posts read like.

 

[Kagim]

Also consider sexual harassment from the other point of view. Who are you to judge whether she actually felt objectified? Are you female? You will never understand what it's like to be made to feel that way, just like how white people will never understand what it means to be racially discriminated against on a large scale. While I'll admit that there are those who take advantage of the system, I have worked with absolute pigs before and it's truly an awful work environment.

I know how it feels to be objectified. Being treated like shit because I'm not a sexy male. Being treated like shit for the way you look is just as bad as being treated special for your looks.

I'm still treated like an ugly piece of trash. She was treated like a fuck toy. I think i understand what its like to be treated like an object.

No, I'm not calling you out. I'm not trying to be jerk to you. I'm just trying to get across that being hit on for being attractive is the same as being treated like shit for not being attractive.

In the end you still feel like nothing more then an object.

 

[Kagim]

Sexism is supposed to be about blatantly disrespecting someone of the opposite sex.

Right now sexism is whenever a women doesn't like attention from certain people.

Yes, that might sound bitter. That's just because I am.

Pretty much any statement about media being sexist towards women can be turned around to show its sexist towards men to.

Rap music calling women bitches? Rap music making men look like greedy sex obsessed freaks.

Movies and TV setting an unfair standard of beauty? Have you seen the men in tv shows? The average show that has unfairly beautiful women has unfairly beautiful men. They are usually dumb as bricks to the both of them.

Video games unfairly using women as plot devices? Men once again being unrealistically attractive, setting unfair standards, and still they are usually dumb as bricks.

My favorite is when people bring up porn as being sexist showing women as nothing but objects. You know, because the men depicted are not shown as stupid manipulative sex obsessed studs.

No, I'm not calling for all this to be banned and censored. I'm calling for people to stop giving such a shit and think for themselves.

I'm sorry... but is your point that all women deserve to be punished for the actions of a few and because the (most likely) MEN who are in control of the law decided to favour women? Cuz that's kind of what your posts read like.

No, i don't think anyone should be punished. I'm talking about sexism in the media. I was typing that post before the conversation was about laws and still on media.

My point was that media is just as sexist and belittling to men as it is to women.

That's all.

 

[PinkAngelKitty]

Also consider sexual harassment from the other point of view. Who are you to judge whether she actually felt objectified? Are you female? You will never understand what it's like to be made to feel that way, just like how white people will never understand what it means to be racially discriminated against on a large scale. While I'll admit that there are those who take advantage of the system, I have worked with absolute pigs before and it's truly an awful work environment.

I know how it feels to be objectified. Being treated like shit because I'm not a sexy male. Being treated like shit for the way you look is just as bad as being treated special for your looks.

I'm still treated like an ugly piece of trash. She was treated like a fuck toy. I think i understand what its like to be treated like an object.

No, I'm not calling you out. I'm not trying to be jerk to you. I'm just trying to get across that being hit on for being attractive is the same as being treated like shit for not being attractive.

In the end you still feel like nothing more then an object.

Sexual harassment is not solely about being "hit on". In my case, the problem was extremely offensive jokes that made me extremely uncomfortable.

 

[Kagim]

Also consider sexual harassment from the other point of view. Who are you to judge whether she actually felt objectified? Are you female? You will never understand what it's like to be made to feel that way, just like how white people will never understand what it means to be racially discriminated against on a large scale. While I'll admit that there are those who take advantage of the system, I have worked with absolute pigs before and it's truly an awful work environment.

I know how it feels to be objectified. Being treated like shit because I'm not a sexy male. Being treated like shit for the way you look is just as bad as being treated special for your looks.

I'm still treated like an ugly piece of trash. She was treated like a fuck toy. I think i understand what its like to be treated like an object.

No, I'm not calling you out. I'm not trying to be jerk to you. I'm just trying to get across that being hit on for being attractive is the same as being treated like shit for not being attractive.

In the end you still feel like nothing more then an object.

Sexual harassment is not solely about being "hit on". In my case, the problem was extremely offensive jokes that made me extremely uncomfortable.

Then replace hit on with offensive jokes.

 

[krazymouse]

Sexism is obviously being recreated, try going to any public game on xbox live and pretend you're a girl (or if you are a girl, make it obvious) your going to hear sexist slurs, like the sandwich jokes and the kitchen jokes. Its just a manifestation of our culture, its not something we are proud of. But keep this in mind, its not the generation, its only the people who stay in their basement playing video games all the time, who do not have proper manners towards girls, and one person starts it, and the people just pick up on it as if it was the "right" thing to do online.

 

[Vitor Goncalves]

All laws of sexual nature.
Divorce law.
Custody.
Civil Abuse.

There, four without even thinking.


This link calls your eating disorder argument horse shit [http://www.umm.edu/patiented/articles/what_causes_eating_disorders_000049_3.htm]


And actually, magazines are fairly evenly split. Not sure where your going with that. Same with movies.

I guess you stopped reading your link before these paragraphs:

Cultural Pressures

The approach to food in Western countries is extremely problematic. Enough food is produced in the U.S. to supply 3,800 calories every day to each man, woman, and child, far more than are needed for good nutrition. Obesity is a global epidemic, and few people living in this over-fed and sedentary culture eat a meal guiltlessly.

One interesting anthropologic study reported the following observations:

During historical periods or in cultures where women are financially dependent and marital ties are stronger, the standard is toward being curvaceous, possibly reflecting a cultural or economic need for greater reproduction.
During periods or in cultures where female independence has been possible, the standard of female attractiveness tends toward thinness.
The response of the media to the cultural drive for thinness and the overproduction of food both likely play major roles in triggering obesity and eating disorders.

On the one hand, advertisers heavily market weight-reduction programs and present anorexic young models as the paradigm of sexual desirability.
Clothes are designed and displayed for thin bodies in spite of the fact that few women could wear them successfully.
On the other hand, the media floods the public with attractive ads for consuming foods, especially "junk" foods

 

[Lukirre]

That link also blames genetics, parental issues, emotional disorders, and sexual abuse (something you cannot blame on men IN GENERAL). Nice try: eating disorders are too complicated to blame on one thing.

As for magazines, guess what: Sexy women are used to sell WOMENS magazines. And since these things are written by women, well, you can't exactly blame men for this one. And again, magazines are just selling what people want. They are not trying to change you, their changing to provide what you want (You being the average person, not you as in the poster).

Civil Abuse: If a wife beats her husband with a baseball bat, and he calls the police, he leaves the house. Frequently, the women is not even taken to jail, or charged. Know how I know this? because I know no less than 3 people that have had this happen. Thats fucking outrageous.

Rape Laws: Rape doesn't have to be proven to be deadly. The current system of sexual abuse law is skewed: simply being accused can fuck your life up. I've seen two women ruin men this way.

Sexual harassment: Poorly defined and hardly fair. The laws behind this basically give a women a free pass if she has a weak moral compass.

Custody: Most states will give the child to the mother if she comes to court high off her rocker and drunk as all hell. For a man to get full custody, or even primary, the mother has to be proven to be actively and purposefully harming her children in most states. As for divorce law, please.

I didn't say that women only have eating disorders because of men. But, the part about societal standards does call it a "major factor" in what causes them.

The only magazine I can think of off the top of my head that has an attractive woman on the cover of a woman's magazine is Cosmopolitan. Other than that, all of the bikini-clad, half naked women are on men's magazine.

Civil Abuse: A man is beating his wife so she retaliates and hits him back. He calls the police, she goes to jail. Do I know people that this has happened to? Yes, I do. Does that make my argument stronger? No, it creates bias via anecdotal evidence.

Rape laws: Yes, women can take advantage of this. I admit this. I argued before that they were put in place for a rather good reason, and that argument has merit. Because of a few instances, however, of women taking advantage of the laws that you know of, does not mean that men are more rampant in rape. And a lot of men still get away with rape.

Sexual harassment: You say "weak moral compass", but that's completely subjective. If someone is genuinely offended, they should have the right to complain. Yes, again, some people abuse this. But it's like tenant/landlord laws in Ontario. The tenant can completely take advantage of the land lord through these laws. Does that mean all land lord's are victims of it? No, and the laws still assist tenants who are genuinely abused.

And as for divorce laws, please. A man can abuse these laws just as any woman can.

 

[Requx]

I think there is definently sexism all around. Of course in the gaming community it is ver objectified to women but that's mainly due to the birth of trolls...and they brought back a lot such as anti-semmitism, racism and much more but definently in society women today are much more powerful and it goes both ways before you could'nt be sexist towards a man because they were in control for the most part but as we see the equalization of genders we can notice that men are treated worse than women in specific cases( I wrote an essay on this ). And what bothers me is how easy it is to transpose a sex crime on a male. While doing research I heard of a man who had just woken up out of his bed at 5:30 in the morning he did'nt feel the need to get dressed because he was in his own home and it was 5:30 then A woman and her child cut across his lawn and the woman calls the police and he is latter in court for being a peeping Tom. So it definently goes both ways but theres a fine line between society and community. And hatred is a natural human feeling it is very hard to purge somebody of theyre feelings no matter how negative we percieve them. But definently sexism in gaming is still and issue and you can just go on youtube now and again and see some troll flaming a girl who just killed some 12 year old in MW2 and just puts down her self esteem...but thats what trolls do so really I think women today are strong and the people behind these malicious attacks against the gender pose no real threat as long as we treat them...like trolls.

 

[Mucinex-D]

We have a black president! Let all the hate go!

On a serious note: I think any sexism in the present is mostly due to women having a lack of self respect. Sure guys are pervs who like to see hot women, but they don't do much to put a stop to it. The clothes many women wear now are practically nothing in some cases. They walk around asking for equality while simultaneously getting laws made for them that separate punishment based on gender (to name one, there was a law passed where I live where hitting a woman is an extremely bad offense that could be punished by jail time much worse than hitting a man. Not saying that you shouldn't get in trouble for hitting a woman but why not make it equal to hitting a man?). That doesn't make equality, it causes more differences and is counter-productive to their cause.

I hear feminists all the time saying how much BETTER than men they are. Isn't that sexist? I think if it's they care that much about it they will eventually stand up and put an end to it. So far that hasn't happened on a large scale.

 

[BigCat91]

Yes, this generation is very sexist. However it balances out. Think about it for a moment. Men control the social aspect, we decide when to marry, who to hire, who's hot, who's not, who plays the sports, if we have sex with multiple women we are players, when women have sex with multiple men they are sluts. However women control the law. If they ask for a divorce they get the kids, the car, the house, half of your money, more than half of the stuff, and even more if she has a good lawyer (this can even happen if the man files for divorce). The courts don't even look to see if the mother is fit. Case and point Britney Spears, she drove her kid in the front seat of a car with out a baby cradle or anything, and it took social services more than 6 months to say that she is an unfit mother. If you don't feel that is a good enough point look at statistics, juries are more likely to believe a woman is not guilty for a murder than men.

Really it balances out, and this will probably never change from here on out sadly.

 

[PinkAngelKitty]

Also consider sexual harassment from the other point of view. Who are you to judge whether she actually felt objectified? Are you female? You will never understand what it's like to be made to feel that way, just like how white people will never understand what it means to be racially discriminated against on a large scale. While I'll admit that there are those who take advantage of the system, I have worked with absolute pigs before and it's truly an awful work environment.

I know how it feels to be objectified. Being treated like shit because I'm not a sexy male. Being treated like shit for the way you look is just as bad as being treated special for your looks.

I'm still treated like an ugly piece of trash. She was treated like a fuck toy. I think i understand what its like to be treated like an object.

No, I'm not calling you out. I'm not trying to be jerk to you. I'm just trying to get across that being hit on for being attractive is the same as being treated like shit for not being attractive.

In the end you still feel like nothing more then an object.

Sexual harassment is not solely about being "hit on". In my case, the problem was extremely offensive jokes that made me extremely uncomfortable.

Then replace hit on with offensive jokes.

ok so... what's your point? That you feel equally put out because you're ugly? Even then... whats your point? That we should just suck it up?

 

[Hurray Forums]

Women are still paid less in the work force than man. For every dollar a man makes doing a job, a woman doing the same job will only make 71 cents.

That statistic is a load of bullocks being taken out of context. The wage gap is NOT women and men getting paid differently doing the same job with the same experience, the wage gap has to do with things like women generally choosing lower paying jobs IE nurse over doctor, liberal arts major over engineer, less experience, working less hours since they are often times the primary caretaker in a household etc. Discrimination in pay based solely on sex is illegal (or at least it is in more developed countries)and is basically a big sign saying "Please sue me for all my money"(and that's generally what happens).

 

[DefunctTheory]

Sexual harassment is not solely about being "hit on". In my case, the problem was extremely offensive jokes that made me extremely uncomfortable.

Okay, I'd like to jump in here for a moment. I'm going to be as non-offensive as possible (I'll probably fail, but keep in mind I'm trying).

Now, I understand the rules about this sort of thing: I understand why they exist, and agree. But to you, where is the line drawn? Obviously, unwanted flirting is a no go. So are jokes at your expense (Honestly, if you can;t take a crude joke about yourself, I don't want to hang around you, but you shouldn't be forced to listen to that I guess). But beyond that, were is the line?

Are sexual jokes not aimed at anyone REALLY that offensive? Is me flirting with SOMEONE ELSE really offending you? And where does the law draw the line between reasonably limiting vulgar speech and flat out shutting me the hell up at work entirely.

Honestly, I think sexual harassment training in the work space should be coupled with 'Grow thicker skin' training. I shouldn't be making overly sexual comments I suppose, but I shouldn't be in fear of my job just because someone finds the word '*****' (not using it as an insult, just the word) offensive.

And my purpose is not to argue, but just to find out where you think that line, legally, should be, because I think the law is way too loose right now.

 

[PinkAngelKitty]

Women are still paid less in the work force than man. For every dollar a man makes doing a job, a woman doing the same job will only make 71 cents.

That statistic is a load of bullocks being taken out of context. The wage gap is NOT women and men getting paid differently doing the same job with the same experience, the wage gap has to do with things like women generally choosing lower paying jobs IE nurse over doctor, liberal arts major over engineer, less experience, working less hours since they are often times the primary caretaker in a household etc. Discrimination in pay based solely on sex is illegal (or at least it is in more developed countries)and is basically a big sign saying "Please sue me for all my money"(and that's generally what happens).

uh.. no. As I stated, it's a comparison between same or similar responsibilities and workload. Women are generally choosing lower paying jobs. Do you honestly believe that? They aren't offered the opportunity for higher paying jobs because employers expect them to run off and get pregnant and need maternity leave. Further more, a man and woman go to a job interview. The man gets hired over the women. The woman tries to sue for sexual discrimination. The employer shrugs it off, saying the interview went better and he was more qualified. Case closed. Just because it's illegal, doesn't mean people don't still do it all the time.

 

[PayneTrayne]

There is also the whole female firefighter fiasco. Being an overweight male, I see this as a problem. A woman not being able to drag a dead weight of 250 pounds is a problem, because I weigh in at that much. However, women have argued that there is no bonafide reason for such a test (though there are a fair few overweight people) and thus they don't have to pass that test.

 

[PinkAngelKitty]

Sexual harassment is not solely about being "hit on". In my case, the problem was extremely offensive jokes that made me extremely uncomfortable.

Okay, I'd like to jump in here for a moment. I'm going to be as non-offensive as possible (I'll probably fail, but keep in mind I'm trying).

Now, I understand the rules about this sort of thing: I understand why they exist, and agree. But to you, where is the line drawn? Obviously, unwanted flirting is a no go. So are jokes at your expense (Honestly, if you can;t take a crude joke about yourself, I don't want to hang around you, but you shouldn't be forced to listen to that I guess). But beyond that, were is the line?

Are sexual jokes not aimed at anyone REALLY that offensive? Is me flirting with SOMEONE ELSE really offending you? And where does the law draw the line between reasonably limiting vulgar speech and flat out shutting me the hell up at work entirely.

Honestly, I think sexual harassment training in the work space should be coupled with 'Grow thicker skin' training. I shouldn't be making overly sexual comments I suppose, but I shouldn't be in fear of my job just because someone finds the word '*****' (not using it as an insult, just the word) offensive.

And my purpose is not to argue, but just to find out where you think that line, legally, should be, because I think the law is way too loose right now.

The line is when I start to feel offended. Mind you, I'm not going to run off and complain immediately. I like to try and fight my own battles. I asked them respectfully but firmly to stop doing stuff like that around me (is wasn't just extremely sexist jokes but offensive racist ones as well), but I was laughed at as if it was cute that I thought my opinion mattered.

 

[TheTaco007]

Video games are made to make money. The people who buy video games are mostly nerdy kids (This includes me, so don't get offended) who don't get much action. Then the marketing skills kick in, and you get to play the role of a total badass, and make out with a hot chick.

It's just marketing.