The Health Bar is more realistic than Regenerating.
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It would be interesting to see a game where the effects of being wounded were realistic, i.e. shock, blurred vision, possible arterial spurts, drastic impairment of basic physical function, the need for immediate medical care, the inability to simply sprint past a health pack and have it perform instant magical repair of any wound, etc. I'm not saying fully realistic, but let's say you kept losing health until you applied first aid, and even then you couldn't fix much of the damage. You would only heal fully between missions.
It would be a whole new approach. Who needs a field full of fifty bad guys when a single punk with a .22 can cause you trouble? Extreme paranoia and forward planning would be your only method of survival. Wait a minute, what am I talking about? Splinter Cell, Hitman, and other such games already use the "respect the enemy, don't get hit" motif. It's just a matter of what you like: invincible regenerating super-badass, nigh-invincible health bar hero, or kill-me-for-the-slightest-mistake assassin games.
It would be a whole new approach. Who needs a field full of fifty bad guys when a single punk with a .22 can cause you trouble? Extreme paranoia and forward planning would be your only method of survival. Wait a minute, what am I talking about? Splinter Cell, Hitman, and other such games already use the "respect the enemy, don't get hit" motif. It's just a matter of what you like: invincible regenerating super-badass, nigh-invincible health bar hero, or kill-me-for-the-slightest-mistake assassin games.
I'd prefer health packs personally. At the same time, Regenerating health is alright too depending upon the game. In a game like CoD (single-player, not multi), there were some moments where it was crazy difficult to get past, and without a chance to regen health... I probably never would have gotten past it. I guess regenerating health is better for those games where a billion things are shooting at you with great accuracy, but is less necessary the less intense the shooting gets.
But then there's Half-Life 2...
But then there's Half-Life 2...
The "wrong" tactics? Maybe the tactics that you don't prefer to use, but not the wrong tactics. Every game is designed differently, and therefore require different tactics. You wouldn't use the same tactics to finish a mission in Call of Duty than you would to finish a temple in Zelda. Everyone also has different tactics for their style of play, and they're not the "wrong" tactics if they achieve the goals the tactics were intended to help them achieve. By saying they have the "wrong" tactics, you make yourself seem like you just want to bring health packs back simply because they're not the tactics you like. Not that that's what you're saying, but you heavily imply that when you say "The wrong tactics"MolotoK said:
Well for Deus ex if you actually get the health regenerating one, but come on the emp eyebot is waaaaaaaaaay more worth it.More Fun To Compute said:
So enjoying the game has to come at the expense of difficulty and challenge? Part of the health bar system was to encourage players to play smart, and the penalty of being rash and taking damage was having to take time to search for health sources.Baby Tea said:
Personally, with regenerating health a lot of the tension is gone. I remember fondly being deep in a dungeon in a Zelda game with 1.5 hearts, no fairies, and the alarm going off, or searching desperately for body armor in Goldeneye on 00 Agent difficulty.
I figure that I should actually post in my own threads.
After watching the latest Extra Credits, they offered an interesting idea I hadn't considered.
Floyd mentioned Halo inventing the regenerating health to help keep the combat flowing quickly. This has helped pacing in FPS games, at the expense of exploration.
A game like Half Life 2 encourages exploration, and uses a Health Meter system. Same with the first Resistance.
I find it very interesting how such a small thing as changing health characteristics has had such a major effect on game design. Regeneration titles seem more linear and set piece focused, with little exploration, because the game is always driving forward.
Very cool observation.
After watching the latest Extra Credits, they offered an interesting idea I hadn't considered.
Floyd mentioned Halo inventing the regenerating health to help keep the combat flowing quickly. This has helped pacing in FPS games, at the expense of exploration.
A game like Half Life 2 encourages exploration, and uses a Health Meter system. Same with the first Resistance.
I find it very interesting how such a small thing as changing health characteristics has had such a major effect on game design. Regeneration titles seem more linear and set piece focused, with little exploration, because the game is always driving forward.
Very cool observation.
Games started with health bars, they moved to regeneration, now Halo uses a combination of both, which is the best of both worlds.........or mediocrity of both worlds I guess.
The closest you'll ever get to a realistic FPS is WWII Online Battleground Europe, one hit = death, or severe wound. I think the combination of health and regeneration does the job just fine.
The closest you'll ever get to a realistic FPS is WWII Online Battleground Europe, one hit = death, or severe wound. I think the combination of health and regeneration does the job just fine.
I think that regenerative health works for some games (particularly fast paced ones). Though I personally don't like it, I generally don't like fast paced games either.
I think the best system is this:
Health points measured by a health bar, healed by portable health kits. Additional factors like bleeding and crippling add more depth and realism to the system.
In Operation Flashpoint, there is no HUD indicator to tell you your health status. You find out if you're injured by checking your body for wounds and bleeding (you can do this from first or third person view, because this was one of the first games that allowed you to see your body when you look down). Further, injuries are debilitating, so being shot doesn't just mean "oh I lost some health points", it usually impairs your ability to fight effectively. Shot in the arm? It's much harder to fire your weapons accurately. Shot in the legs? You can no longer walk, only crawl.
Fallout 3 is somewhat more conventional and sticks with the health points measured by health bar system but also has a crippling system with debilitating injuries (similar to, but more advanced than what I described above). Crippled head = concussion, tinnitus, impaired vision. Crippled arms = impaired accuracy and ability to carry heavy weight. Crippled legs = limping. Crippled torso = impaired stamina. Once a body part is crippled you have to get it treated by a doctor, sleep on a bed to let it heal, or use a health item known as a "stimpak" to fix it up quickly. Ordinarily crippling injuries don't happen that often, the debilitating effects aren't very significant, and stimpaks are so plentiful that you never need to think about it, you just patch yourself up and you're good as new.
But I use mods that, A: Make crippling injuries more likely and increase their debilitating effects, and B: Make stimpaks significantly rarer and more expensive, to the point that it's cheaper to get treated by a doctor than to buy one. Now, it's a tactical choice when to patch yourself up and when to "grin and bear it". Should I use one of the 4 or 5 stimpaks I've scrounged up so far, or put up with my injuries and limp home to get treated by a doctor, hoping I don't run into any more dangers on the way? This has resulted in some very immersive situations for me and makes the game more tense. I love modding games.
I think the best system is this:
Health points measured by a health bar, healed by portable health kits. Additional factors like bleeding and crippling add more depth and realism to the system.
Indeed, this is true. This brings to mind two games that add crippling to make being injured more significant than just losing HP, Operation Flashpoint/ArmA and Fallout 3.Schreck157 said:
In Operation Flashpoint, there is no HUD indicator to tell you your health status. You find out if you're injured by checking your body for wounds and bleeding (you can do this from first or third person view, because this was one of the first games that allowed you to see your body when you look down). Further, injuries are debilitating, so being shot doesn't just mean "oh I lost some health points", it usually impairs your ability to fight effectively. Shot in the arm? It's much harder to fire your weapons accurately. Shot in the legs? You can no longer walk, only crawl.
Fallout 3 is somewhat more conventional and sticks with the health points measured by health bar system but also has a crippling system with debilitating injuries (similar to, but more advanced than what I described above). Crippled head = concussion, tinnitus, impaired vision. Crippled arms = impaired accuracy and ability to carry heavy weight. Crippled legs = limping. Crippled torso = impaired stamina. Once a body part is crippled you have to get it treated by a doctor, sleep on a bed to let it heal, or use a health item known as a "stimpak" to fix it up quickly. Ordinarily crippling injuries don't happen that often, the debilitating effects aren't very significant, and stimpaks are so plentiful that you never need to think about it, you just patch yourself up and you're good as new.
But I use mods that, A: Make crippling injuries more likely and increase their debilitating effects, and B: Make stimpaks significantly rarer and more expensive, to the point that it's cheaper to get treated by a doctor than to buy one. Now, it's a tactical choice when to patch yourself up and when to "grin and bear it". Should I use one of the 4 or 5 stimpaks I've scrounged up so far, or put up with my injuries and limp home to get treated by a doctor, hoping I don't run into any more dangers on the way? This has resulted in some very immersive situations for me and makes the game more tense. I love modding games.
I liked army men: sarge's heroes where you're health was represented by how fucked up your dude's face got. At full health he'd be mean n green but close to death he'd have teeth missing and bullet holes in his helmet and generally looked like he was in agonizing pain. Good game... good health system.
You want a real game?
get shot once in the foot go to the army hospital get an infection die
no second play through
get shot once in the foot go to the army hospital get an infection die
no second play through
I think "regenerating health" is more "realistic". With both terms in quotations marks.
Something completely realistic would be (in the case of shooters) one hit kill (or at least one hit massive-blood-loss-and-eventual-loss-of-consciousness-and-then-death-if-not-treated). So-called regenerating health like in Uncharted, Gears, CoD etc. basically goes on like you didn't get shot the first few times it happened in a short time, in order for the game to be playable and, you know, fun. If you lose too many "free chances" in a short period, your character actually gets shot and it's game over.
Something completely realistic would be (in the case of shooters) one hit kill (or at least one hit massive-blood-loss-and-eventual-loss-of-consciousness-and-then-death-if-not-treated). So-called regenerating health like in Uncharted, Gears, CoD etc. basically goes on like you didn't get shot the first few times it happened in a short time, in order for the game to be playable and, you know, fun. If you lose too many "free chances" in a short period, your character actually gets shot and it's game over.
no it isnt. Regeneration is handled in such a way that damage doesnt matter. i like my health bar, i like it to regenerate. i dont like my regen to kick in instantaniously.Malicious Heart said:
a more enjoyable system would be a 100 point system that takes 10 seconds to fully refill, but doesnt if you have been shot in the past 3 seconds. i dont mean the cod 5 second count down to full health, i mean 10 seconds, with 10 health per second. so that you have to cover your own ass while doing so.
realistically the health bar is unrealistic, i wouldnt give a poop if it was wrong, so long as it gave an approximation.
The health bar is so hilariously unrealistic in terms of a human body getting hit by bullets, that the distinction between it and health regeneration is practically nil.
CoD's retarded bloody screen aside, in a game that tries to be authentic is it better to just pretend that you weren't injured at all but took a glancing hit, body armor stopped it, or you were just struck by fragments of the bullet/bits of concrete, freaked out, and dove into cover.
It's a gameplay choice. In terms of actual realism, both systems are meaningless abstractions.
CoD's retarded bloody screen aside, in a game that tries to be authentic is it better to just pretend that you weren't injured at all but took a glancing hit, body armor stopped it, or you were just struck by fragments of the bullet/bits of concrete, freaked out, and dove into cover.
It's a gameplay choice. In terms of actual realism, both systems are meaningless abstractions.
I prefer health bars/numbers. It gives me a clear, non-intrusive way of knowing where my "life" is. If it gets too low it could regen to ~20% after a while so im not stuck with 1 HP after a checkpoint/save.
Systems like COD with the screen that turns red, bloody or fuzzy whenever i take damage just gets in the way to the gameplay/visibility, hence making my continued survival harder whenever i take damage.
Systems like COD with the screen that turns red, bloody or fuzzy whenever i take damage just gets in the way to the gameplay/visibility, hence making my continued survival harder whenever i take damage.
I don't really care one way or the other. I would prefer health bars for single player because regen easily leads to corridor combat and enemy spam to compensate for lack of difficulty, although health bar games are not immune to this either. They only really become challenging when the enemies have health regen as well (i.e. Halo's Elites or shielded Flood), and even then, AI lacks intuition by nature. Plus the AI didn't learn to spam the noob combo until Reach, and even then, they can't headshot worth a damn.
Fallout 3 is fairly nice, although in combat with the enemy all you end up doing is aiming for the head unless it's a deathclaw. Hardcore mode in New Vegas is a bit sweeter with how the health and medpacks work. The overall health bar is also a nice touch. In Deus Ex, you could have your arms and legs incapacitated, but you've still taken 400 points of damage and aren't dead.
I personally find that there are other factors in the multiplayer game that account for game pace. Halo Reach's Team SWAT playlist for example is about the same pace as the rest of the game, despite having limited health regen (only to the nearest third), no shields and instant kill headshots.
Fallout 3 is fairly nice, although in combat with the enemy all you end up doing is aiming for the head unless it's a deathclaw. Hardcore mode in New Vegas is a bit sweeter with how the health and medpacks work. The overall health bar is also a nice touch. In Deus Ex, you could have your arms and legs incapacitated, but you've still taken 400 points of damage and aren't dead.
I personally find that there are other factors in the multiplayer game that account for game pace. Halo Reach's Team SWAT playlist for example is about the same pace as the rest of the game, despite having limited health regen (only to the nearest third), no shields and instant kill headshots.
Health regeneration destroyed FPS genre. That and CoD. I feel nothing when I play modern shooters. You should not have your health regenerate. It's just sad and stupid. There's a certain feeling, a level of intensity when you're playing an FPS and you only have 10hp left against 4 enemies for example. It takes skill to take them out. Also respawning after each death ruins it too. I like round system more. One round - one life. Even more intensity, tactical thinking and skill required. But kids these days would just camp if games were like that. Because kids these days are fuckin' stupid.