The ism's in gaming

[The Wooster]

You're missing my point. My point isn't that Chun Li isn't wearing something practical for fighting and therefore she's different from all the other characters. My point is that she's the only character wearing a stylized outfit that draws it's style from a garment that has nothing to do with fighting. Where are you getting that Chun Li wears a Chinese Gymnastics Outfit? That's a qipao-styled outfit she's got on, isn't it?

Vega isn't wearing an outfit for combat. Like Chun Li he's wearing something impractical and attention grabbing.

You're missing my point: like I said, "My point isn't that Chun Li isn't wearing something practical for fighting"; my point was that he's wearing an outfit that draws on bullfighting while Chun Li wears something that draws on beauty pageant wear. Why for the guys did the designers draw their inspiration from something like bullfighting for Vega, but from beauty pageants for Chun Li?

I think that's more of a nationality thing than a gender thing. Each character has an outfit that is actually close to a stereotype of their nationality. Vega isn't a bullfighter so why does he dress like one? Because bullfighting is quite often associated with spain. As is the qipao with China.

Because

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

@Decoy: Still not sure on Vega. Your bullfighters have clowns and spears. That guys is just a vain psychopath; even his mask is to protect his face.

Sagat got the scar by Ryu Dragonpunching him in Street Fighter (original); and I'll agree the feet wraps are good. Most Muay Thai have terrible arthritis in later years.

If he's in a street fight though; padded gloves are actually gonna dent his ability. He was originally thrown out for being too brutal.

And real vikings didn't actually wear helmets with horns--does that make _The Lost Vikings_ sexist?

No, but it plays to their image, the horns were actually mistaken visions of the helmet flaps (To block the ears from arrows) when they were raised.

Where are you getting that Chun Li wears a Chinese Gymnastics Outfit? That's a qipao-styled outfit she's got on, isn't it?

Street Fighter Alpha. She wears a unitard and athletic shoes. From SF2 onwards, she wears a qipao, but it's modified to give her more movement. She trained as a gymnast, where she learned Wushu, before joining Interpol, after the death of her father.

The qipao outfit, or Cheongsam, has been worn in China since around about 400 years. In fact it was illegal not to do so. Only in modern times has it been taken as evening dress because it also accentuates the figure. They're actually quite common as a form of uniform.

Oh yes, and Zangief. He wears pants. Nowhere in Russia is that a suitable outfit for Bear-Wrestling.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Exactly, but why did they pick a qipao and not an outfit associated with a Chinese martial art? That's my point--these outfits weren't picked at random: they were some kind of stereotype of their nationality/fighting style. So why did they base Chun Li's outfit on something that has nothing to do with physical combat like they did in pulling influence from bullfighting for Vega? It's not like there's even another character in a 'kung-fu' outfit so why did they pick a qipao over something just as Chinese, but associated with martial arts?

See my post on the Racism thread. Capcom are Japanese. That's why the English characters are a Punkrocker (Birdie) and a Gentleman Boxer (Eagle).

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Hrrrrrm...dangerously close to necromancy here.

Chun Li is trained as, and undercover as, a Chinese Gymnast. As part of her uniform, she wears a qipao outfit styled for gymnastics. This is a traditional Chinese uniform style that has been around for 400 years, but in modern times was taken as an evening dress, as well.

Now, I know there are two definitions of twink, but one is from EQ and the other one means some form of gay fetish that I really don't want to wiki; so... I'll just say that wearing fur pants isn't great for fighting bears, especially in Artic temperatures.

I would hope Japan has a slightly better understanding of China than England.

Right...like England and France completely understand each other. Or USA and Canada.

In fact, isn't this the opposite of what you were arguing in the Capcom thread?

Nope, I was saying that don't blame 'Whitey' for percieved racism from Asians to Black people.

After incidents like the Rape of Nanking, shouldn't Japanese companies be especially aware of racism towards China? Isn't a continual source of tension between Japan and China whenever the PM visits the Yasukuni Shrine to the Japanese war dead?

That's probably why Chun Li was allowed in in the first place, but having a strong woman as their 'ambassador', although Japan has 3.
They did sneak Fei Long in as well, but I think he was Hong Kong Chinese.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Chun Li is trained as, and undercover as, a Chinese Gymnast.

So why not just put her in a gymnastics uniform?

Yeah, I can't see anyone getting upset about a young girl in a bikini, can you?

Now, I know there are two definitions of twink, but one is from EQ and the other one means some form of gay fetish that I really don't want to wiki; so... I'll just say that wearing fur pants isn't great for fighting bears, especially in Artic temperatures.

Why do you keep talking about fur pants? I don't see any fur pants on him in SFII

My mistake, that was Alpha. Still, red speedos?

And the twink thing is because you were talking about SFII feeding more into women's fantasies than men's, and the only people I can see having their fantasies fed by Zangief are twinks looking for a bear.

You don't think a heavily muscled man appeals to women? Seriously?

I would hope Japan has a slightly better understanding of China than England.

Right...like England and France completely understand each other. Or USA and Canada.

Never used the phrase "completely understand": don't know where you're getting that from.

It was sarcasm. As was inferred by the countries being compared.

In fact, isn't this the opposite of what you were arguing in the Capcom thread?

Nope, I was saying that don't blame 'Whitey' for percieved racism from Asians to Black people.

Okay, but what does that have to do with racism from one group of Asians towards another group of Asians that they invaded and conquered and committed atrocities against?

That they are Japanese...

After incidents like the Rape of Nanking, shouldn't Japanese companies be especially aware of racism towards China? Isn't a continual source of tension between Japan and China whenever the PM visits the Yasukuni Shrine to the Japanese war dead?

That's probably why Chun Li was allowed in in the first place,

Okay--now you're just makin' shit up ;-D

Yeh, because there's no possible reason that a game about the greatest Martial Arts would completely ignore China and not expect to get lambasted.

But don't you think this little tangent is going a LITTLE far off course when we've already made the main point?

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Let's hark back to one of Lisa's Points:

Not really realistic shape; however compare this

with this

Damn, that's some pecs that Mark Hamill hasn't got.

 

[X3heartless]

O.k.,now i would like to make a statement that is more tactful than my last,and i will state my opinion in a less "sock sniffer" way.Their are reasons why we use good looking women,men in video games to be both physical appealing and to support the story line of said game.

Also i would like to address racism in video games.There have been many accounts of racism in video games but not in this generation and if it does show up its from poor translations. Hardly ever have i seen it purposely done because a company would lose its credibility,but most of the time i see a head line in the media that uses racism and video game in the same sentence is because the media its self is filled with stupid racist pricks.They see a white man killing multiple black men just must make it racist.Trust me your media whether it be in Europe,north America or any other country doesn't care about giving you information.It's all about ratings so they can make there cash.Don't always trust them.

Feminism,Once a thing society as a whole needed is now just people fighting for useless causes.Everything in my country (America) is completely equal.So much to the fact corporations,businesses will lay people off and hire a different person for reasons of sex/race/religion to NOT seem racist/sexist/and intolerant of other peoples religions.So really to all people who are feminist please god don't lecture us on sexism,you can live your life without any real problems so shut the hell up.

,also don't judge me like your my English teacher it gets annoying and if i have misspelled anything I'm sorry I'm only a freshman or human if you have a ungodly high standard.

peace,heartless

 

[Rolynpwns]

The racism/sexism arguments can be looked at from different points of view in my opinion. Let's start with the racism charges in RE5. The people accusing it of racism have absolutely no idea what the game is all about. They probably saw part of the trailer and immediately assumed that the Africans were simply that, Africans. They didn't watch long enough to see the guy getting a weird-ass parasite thing stuffed into his mouth, so they don't know that these Africans have completely lost their minds (I do not take credit for coming up with this idea myself, I read it on another thread about RE5 and had myself an epiphany). As for sexism, not every single female character is scantily clad. LisaB cited Samus as the only example, overlooking every single female character in the Metal Gear Solid series (maybe besides The Boss when you fight her and EVA, but hey, EVA's job was basically to seduce Snake so I don't see that as a sexist thing). Meryl, Mei Ling, Rose, Olga, and The Boss (for most of the game, and the gigantic scar kinda ruins any sex appeal) are in perfectly functional attire almost all the time, and some of them even have features that detract from their attractiveness (Olga's armpit hair in MGS2 when you see her for the first time, blech). If anyone tries to counter me with the argument that Kojima put posters of Japanese models in various places and made a Playboy issue available for purchase in MGS4, that was meant to be humorous, not for sexual pleasure. The models are exactly that, models. They already serve as a form of sexual pleasure in the real world. Putting them in a video game doesn't deserve any charges of sexism anymore than the real life companies that hire the models.

 

[mshcherbatskaya]

Feminism,Once a thing society as a whole needed is now just people fighting for useless causes.Everything in my country (America) is completely equal.So much to the fact corporations,businesses will lay people off and hire a different person for reasons of sex/race/religion to NOT seem racist/sexist/and intolerant of other peoples religions.So really to all people who are feminist please god don't lecture us on sexism,you can live your life without any real problems so shut the hell up.

,also don't judge me like your my English teacher it gets annoying and if i have misspelled anything I'm sorry I'm only a freshman or human if you have a ungodly high standard.

Heartless, I will not judge you for your writing. I will, however, judge you for both your lack of experience and your lack of respect. Since you are, as you say, "only a freshman," then how in the world can you claim to state with such authority that feminism is no longer needed? How dare you, a 15 year-old boy, tell a woman over 20 years your senior that sexism is over, that her life has no real problems related to sexism, and that she should shut the hell up? Because that's what you've just done. I have, throughout this thread and others, taken other people's arguments seriously and responded to them on the assumption that they were talking honestly about their feelings and experiences. Since you have, by your own admission, yet to master the English language and are still spending your days within the relative shelter of youth, pardon me if I point out that perhaps when it comes to social analysis and life experience, you are the one who should shut your mouth when the impulse to lecture me about feminism arises.

As far as arguing about whether a specific video game or cultural item of any sort is sexist, racist, classist, etc., I long ago decided that such arguments are ultimately futile. I remember reading a Susan Faludi article about the Aliens movies, where she did an analysis of how and why they were sexist. Faludi and I are both feminists, and we are pretty much both the same kind of feminist, but her read on the movies was almost the opposite of mine. These sorts of arguments are never productive as opportunities to prove whether X or Y is sexist. They are productive as opportunities to listen to why other people think they are sexist (to women or to men or both). I'm not interested in hashing out with the_root or LisaB whether Glamour magazine is more or less sexist because it is written by women. I am interested, though, in finding out why they think what they do.

Even you, Heartless. I'm interested in why you think sexism is over in the United States, despite what I just said. I would be prepared to listen respectfully to your opinions and experience if you were prepared to present them respectfully to me. This isn't the thread for that conversation, I think, but there you are, nevertheless.

 

[Myself0101]

you know why we dont form groups and complain?


we have balls

strap on a pair and shut up!



but in all seriousness, i do think the completly stupid 'tiny body, improbable -and often impossible- bosom and incredible good looks' female is rather over used

 

[Abako]

I just cant get off the topic of RE5 being called racist. Personally I am of the opinion that you would have less of a chance of being killed in a horrible way in SOME parts of Africa if there were zombies. Not trying to sound racist at all in that statement its just down right dangerous over there with all the civil war and genocide going on. Now back to the topic of the game being racist. Im sorry but at this point it will be racist to have anyone of African decent in a game as anyone but the hero/main character and only if they are a paragon of virtue. I want to ask the critics just how is it racist. Is it not logical to assume that if people are being turned into zombies in every other part of the work, then there would be African zombies too? I have to wonder why people get so up in arms about ANY race that is depicted not being the hero in a game. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE RACE IT IS A GAME ABOUT ZOMBIES IN A SPECIFIC LOCATION THAT IS TRYING TO BE SOMEWHAT REALISTIC YOU STUPID EGOTISTICAL JACK OFFS WHO THINK ITS THEIR PERSONAL JOB TO MAKE EVERYONE SO POLITICALLY CORRECT THAT WE CANT SPEAK ANYMORE AND MUST COMMUNICATE THROUGH SIGN LANGUAGE. Gah sorry about that I had to get it off my chest.