The issue of gamer "entitlement".

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wicket42

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So, a lot of the negative press the "change the ending" poll gets, is because of the use of words like "we demand" a new ending, rather than "we are disappointed" with the current ending? So rather than the negative feedback it should be, it's become akin to angry mobs at the gates, calling for the author's blood and reparations.

I also think, however, that the word demand was used, partly because paying for a new ending would set that dangerous precedent, of people creating purposefully bad endings only to sell you the improved one later...it's diabolical, but there's something so delightfully capitalist about it.

Also like to say some really great responses in here, thanks for your thoughts!
 

blizzaradragon

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For me, entitlement begins when you start either A) demanding something be added or changed with no cost to you, or B) going over the top with anger because devs went in a path you don't like.

Examples of A include things such as getting Day-1 DLC for free no matter what and the current petition to patch in new endings to Mass Effect 3. It isn't so much that people either want or don't want them, it's when you want it FOR FREE ONLY is when you become entitled.

Examples of B are when a game either takes a turn in a direction you don't want, ranging from anything to story or mechanics to a character's hair color, and immediately go on the attack like your typical angry keyboard warrior. Don't like something they did? Good for you, you're allowed that opinion just like everyone else who played the game. Claiming an entire studio has gone down the toilet and anyone who still supports them is retarded? You've just hit entitlement level with a nice side of dickwad. Note: this doesn't apply as much when the game is broken. Obviously civility is still preferred, but when the game is a buggy mess or just doesn't control right then the response is more justified than something like "I don't like multiplayer in my single player game! WRAAR HULK SMASH!" and the like.

The main problem I find for who is acting entitled vs who is just disappointed is flat out the attitude some gamers take. Seriously, take a chill pill and form coherent arguments without making it look like you were foaming at the mouth when typing it up and I at least would take your opinion much more seriously. I'm sure a lot more people would as well.
 

Matt King

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MomoElektra said:
Matt King said:
somebody else on the escapist put it well
"i went to mcdonalds to buy a burger, i asked them to put cheese on it and they said that would cost extra, i mean how dare they charge for somthing extra especially when they had the cheese right there"

whoever said that i love
Well, I suppose the Day 1 DLC feels more like you buy a burger with cheese on it and pay for it and then they let you eat it but don't let you swallow the cheese unless you pay 99 cent extra.
not really? because they don't say oh and you get this dlc included in it, but we aren't going to let you play it, you buy the game, but you can buy this extra stuff that will make the game better

e.g you can just buy a burger or buy a burger with some sexy cheese on top
 

Krantos

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wicket42 said:
What exactly is a gamer actually entitled to when they buy a game?
I've actually been meaning to address that issue for a while now, but haven't taken the time. This seems like a good opportunity to do so.

To address your question, let me change it a bit: "What is a consumer entitled to when they buy a product?"

The sad fact is gamers as a group seem to think their hobby falls outside of the normal laws of economics. It doesn't, and because of that, we are seeing a marked increase in bad deals from the industry.

The truth is, the consumer is not entitled to anything beyond what was agreed upon at time of purchase. The way a transaction works is the seller offers a product and asks a price for it. Any after-purchase service (including refunds, tech support, etc) are considered part of what is being purchased. However, the seller is by no means required provide these services if they did not agree to do so before the transaction took place.

When a consumer buys a product, they are implying consent to all terms associated with that purchase.

That means, if a company did not promise you anything before you made the purchase, they don't owe you anything. Services like refunds, customer support, etc. have become common practices that many people have come to expect. And because people expect it, companies do it, since not doing so will likely hurt their business. People will start to not do business with them if they know these services are not part of the purchase.

And that is where gamers are failing. Companies like EA and BioWare don't have to worry about customer support or satisfaction, simply because upsetting customers has not translated into lower revenue. Quite the opposite in fact.

By monetizing their properties to ridiculous degrees and charging for things most companies would include with the base product, they have substantially increased their income. This is because people haven't stopped buy their games. Instead, they (the consumer) come to forums and complain about it. What they don't seem to realize is as long as you keep buying a product a company doesn't care how satisfied you are.

Companies have done a good job convincing the public that customer satisfaction is important for reasons other than financial. It's not. Companies care about satisfying customers because of repeat business and word of mouth advertising. If those two are removed from the equation, it is cheaper and better for the business to ignore customer opinion.

To put it plainly. There is nothing illegal about what EA/Bioware have been doing. Hell, it isn't even unethical. It is, however, a very shitty deal for their customers. But since people won't stop buying from them, there is no reason for them to change.

Long story short: Companies have the right to set any standards and terms for their products that consumers will agree to. Consumers are not "entitled" to anything not promised them before the transaction. However, consumers have every right to demand better customer service and pricing than what they've been given lately. They do this by refusing to buy from the offending companies until matters improve.

That's the dilemma. Matters won't improve until people stop buying the product, because the company is under no obligation. But people keep buying.

If you don't like the deal BioWare/EA have been giving you, stop agreeing to it. Every purchase, be it DLC, a Game, or w/e, is a form of agreement.

*phew* got that off my chest. *hunkers down and waits for the flamewar*
 

Erttheking

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Why is it that all I wonder when I watch that video is why he keeps cutting to different area?

I mean what is the point "goes into different room" of switching locations "goes into different room" every five seconds "goes into different room" Seriously.
 

T8B95

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I personally never use the term "entitled". I use a much more concise, hard-hitting, and personal term: "SPOILED".

If you don't like something, then feel free to express your distaste in a mature, sophisticated way. Most gamers seem to approach like my two-year-old nephew, screaming and throwing temper tantrums until they get what they want. Except that's where the analogy ends, because when he gets what he wants, he'll at least calm down, whereas gamers will be just as likely to scream more. Case in point: if Bioware and EA give in to the ridiculous demands of these people who are so desperate for an alternate ending to Mass Effect 3, their response will likely be to release DLC. After that happens these people will come to the forums and whine about how they're being charged extra for something they "deserve".

GROW THE FUCK UP! Bioware and EA gave you what you deserved, they gave you Mass Effect 3. If you want more than that, then grow a pair and be ready to pay for it.

Captcha: moot point. I feel like the captcha's trying to tell me something...
 

WoW Killer

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DrVornoff said:
WoW Killer said:
Listen to this: . . . . . . Did you hear that? That's the sound of me not buying ME3. It's easier than you might think to not give EA money. You should try it sometime.

I'm also proud to have not bought horse armour.
You deserve a beer for showing some actual willpower. Which is sadly more than I can say for a lot of people.
Thanks ^^ It's also my birthday so I have massive amounts of beer right now...

But yeah, the sad (or scary?) thing you said there is that word "willpower". Gaming has become like an addiction to many people out there. It's not quite an addiction because it's a social condition rather than a psychological one (it's a bit like problem gambling actually). When gamers don't buy the latest triple-A title they're left out of the numerous discussions about that title. If you're so detatched from society that your only sense of community comes from forums like this, of which 90% are currently about ME3, then your whole life starts to revolve around buying such titles.

I don't like that Bioware/EA are abusing this scenario like they are, but ultimately I can't blame a business for trying to make a profit. The blame is firmly with the gaming community that keeps ignoring the easy passive option of not parting with their money when they are displeased. My only suggestion is for the rationally minded among us to not buy products that are so obviously marketed towards the most exploitable of consumers.
 

a ginger491

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Probably what gets me the most about the video is that he says it's not our story. That is the whole point of Mass Effect, That each of our stories are unique to us and our Shepard. His argument is null because of that statement.
 

StarCecil

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T8B95 said:
GROW THE FUCK UP! Bioware and EA gave you what you deserved, they gave you Mass Effect 3. If you want more than that, then grow a pair and be ready to pay for it.
I have to disagree, wholeheartedly.

I'm expected to pay money for a product (and $60 is nothing to sneeze at) and I think that does, in fact, entitle me to complain about a dissatisfactory product. I was never a big fan of Mass Effect, but I was a huge fan of Dragon Age. I bought Origins brand new and all the DLC, and I even paid full price to pre-order Dragon Age 2. Lo and behold, Dragon Age 2 ended up being one of the worst games I've ever played and I can't very well not pay for it after.

But I am entitled to express my discontent and demand that the next game in the series conform to certain standards of excellence if EA expects me to pay for it.
 

Versuvius

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I am sick of people throwing around entitlement as an insult or as though it is a decisive masterstroke to an argument. Heres the ropes. Market X as Y. Y happens to be Z padded with lies to look like Y. I will then proceed to show my displeasure at being mis sold something. Now, with this there is no counter argument. There is my opinion is Bla because of Zah, if lots of people agree then you need to concede that may have a point. Most people who dispise the ending and the RPG trimming agrees that the combat while a bit weird is perfectly solid. Now the drones who try and discredit OPINION BACKED UP WITH VALID POINTS by squealing entitlement should suck fanny farts and die, or better yet, stop fucking using it. Or you know. Counter the argument with points, maybe reach a middle ground. In fact, i'm sick of ME3 whinging on all fronts and i have stayed out of all but the earliest of the threads, but this one annoyed me. Opinions, some are right, some are wrong. Sometimes both are right but depending on what you like, what you expected and what your view is, they may be different. The "Stop being so entitled" crowd appear to be unable to MAKE a valid argument, let alone discredit another.

As a consumer, you are ENTITLED you show your displeasure at being mis sold something. While some people may not agree that they have been mis sold it is a moot point because they aren't the ones who feel ripped off and Bioware or EA doesn't need good little zombies to fight it's corner.

Captcha: just in time

Holy shit.
 

Sexy Devil

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wicket42 said:
I'd like to start by saying this is not a thread strictly about the mass effect 3 ending, but take a look at this video and then have a go at answering my question(s).

(The video contains no spoilers for the story of Mass Effect 3)

http://uk.ign.com/videos/2012/03/12/mass-effect-3-opinion-video

Seen it?

OK, my question is, what exactly is a gamer actually entitled to when they buy a game?

Are you allowed to voice your displeasure about an aspect of a product or service? Be it the narrative, framerate issues, face import issues, day one DLC?

Are you allowed to ask for a change to one of those issues but not another one?

Is there an artistic element to a game, that it's unacceptable to criticise, but a technical element that is?

I hear the term "entitled gamer" getting thrown around a lot, and wonder what the community's opinion is.

Captcha: Just Dance

I must obey the captcha!
You're perfectly within your rights to piss and moan about any and all aspects of the came - it's called free speech. Just don't expect people to listen.

People who call others entitled simply for wanting to ensure that they get a game they like more in the future are idiots, plain and simple.
 

dragonswarrior

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Feb 13, 2012
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Thoric485 said:
"This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we're taking into account so many decisions that you've made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.

"It's more like there are some really obvious things that are different and then lots and lots of smaller things, lots of things about who lives and who dies, civilizations that rose and fell, all the way down to individual characters. That becomes the state of where you left your galaxy. The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them."
So, expecting not to be lied to is entitlement now? Nice, IGN.
I... I remember this... From so long ago I remember this...

I had forgotten. They had promised this. But they lied. Now the revolution has begun...

...

On a more serious bent and more on topic I think it's a good thing for people to rant and rave about something that upsets them. If enough people are upset you probably should look really closely at what they are complaining about and see if there is a problem. Sometimes there isn't, but sometimes there is, and it's usually a good idea to fix problems.

Its not so much about entitlement in the Mass Effect case as, you know, if all these people are all upset about this maybe you should look at it and not panic defend. In other cases it comes down to a case of how much "me" you put into your complaint. Someone earlier in the thread went into this and it made sense, that if youre complaining because YOU had a problem with the game and no one else did then youre probably spoiled, and should get over yourself.
 

T8B95

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StarCecil said:
But I am entitled to express my discontent and demand that the next game in the series conform to certain standards of excellence if EA expects me to pay for it.
This is my problem. You DEMAND that the game conforms to certain standards. Just who the hell do you think you are? That you may have had problems with the game is one thing, but to seriously DEMAND that the company makes the game to your exact standards is to take for granted what they have given you, and honestly makes you sound like a whining child.
 

Versuvius

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T8B95 said:
StarCecil said:
But I am entitled to express my discontent and demand that the next game in the series conform to certain standards of excellence if EA expects me to pay for it.
This is my problem. You DEMAND that the game conforms to certain standards. Just who the hell do you think you are? That you may have had problems with the game is one thing, but to seriously DEMAND that the company makes the game to your exact standards is to take for granted what they have given you, and honestly makes you sound like a whining child.
When they stop mismarketing then what you said would be true.
 

StarCecil

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T8B95 said:
StarCecil said:
But I am entitled to express my discontent and demand that the next game in the series conform to certain standards of excellence if EA expects me to pay for it.
This is my problem. You DEMAND that the game conforms to certain standards. Just who the hell do you think you are? That you may have had problems with the game is one thing, but to seriously DEMAND that the company makes the game to your exact standards is to take for granted what they have given you, and honestly makes you sound like a whining child.
I'm a paying customer. If you, as a game developer, want me to pay for your product then you should make something I want to buy.

Using my Dragon Age example, I invested nearly $200 in it and I feel like I didn't get my money's worth. If I'm not getting a refund, then I do deserve to state what I expect out of a sequel - I am the target audience, after all.
 

T8B95

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Versuvius said:
T8B95 said:
StarCecil said:
But I am entitled to express my discontent and demand that the next game in the series conform to certain standards of excellence if EA expects me to pay for it.
This is my problem. You DEMAND that the game conforms to certain standards. Just who the hell do you think you are? That you may have had problems with the game is one thing, but to seriously DEMAND that the company makes the game to your exact standards is to take for granted what they have given you, and honestly makes you sound like a whining child.
When they stop mismarketing then what you said would be true.
What mismarketing? They promised to sell Mass Effect 3. To the best of my knowledge, they sold Mass Effect 3.