The issue of gamer "entitlement".

[DeltaEdge]

I think that they should slap a fat sign on the shelves of all games that says

"Warning, this purchase you are about to make does not entitle you to complete ownership of the game, but only the right to play said game on a single registered console, and said game's value will decrease significantly if traded or given to someone other than the original owner. If you lose the system that the game is registered on, then you are out of luck, and if you really lost a console system, then you don't deserve to be playing video games! Don't like it, then suck it!"

Even though that was primarily a joke, I think that with the way things are now, people should be somehow presented with their rights to each game that they purchase before the purchase is complete so they know to avoid the game if it implements policies people disagree with. I.e, they should tell you up front certain things like if the game does not come with an ending and must be purchased separately at a later date. Yippie, another speculative pointless idea.

 

[T8B95]

Why is this so hard for you to understand? They made several baseless claims in their 'marketting'. And believe it or not false advertising is not allowed.

OH YOUR DECISIONS MATETR! = False
OH INCREASE RPG ELEMENTS! = False
VARID ENDING HARASHAHAH!!!= False

You know, I was going to type a long-winded and complex counter-argument--but then I saw who it was, and I said "Fuck it, why bother?"

 

[braincore02]

In the case of EA, I don't think gamers are acting "entitled". I see a lot of crazy things being said from people who don't seem to know exactly why they're angry, but there are reasonable people with just cause to be resistant to EAs and many of the gaming industry's business practices. They simply feel, and rightly so, if they pay for an arguably expensive product, it is kind of insulting to put real ads in game (tho certain contexts make it seem more reasonable, like in forza), take out content from last years release and offering it as dlc in this years release, and in the case of me3, I can't help but feel the day 1 dlc altered the main game development by causing them to diminish the dlc character's role to nonessential status when it could've been a larger part of the game if it was included as stock content. Even if I'm wrong, from what I'm hearing the content is overpriced, and is generally not considered to be worth a 10th the value of the game (haven't played it, so not sure, just goin from my gut on this one).

Sure, we can vote with our wallets, and I wish more people would, but no one will necessarily know why sales aren't as expected if a vocal outcry is not heard.

If gamers want the end of a game rewritten, well that's tough, and an unreasonable request in my opinion. I didn't like the end of me2, found it way too abrupt and rather flimsy, but when I see steam says I've played over 40 hours, all of which was a good time, I've gotten my money's worth, and count the end as a flawed aspect of an otherwise stellar product. The journey to the end is more important.

I'm voting with my wallet on this one. I'll probably pick it up when it's half price, and I almost NEVER buy dlc, definitely not getting from ashes unless it's free.

 

[AwKwardly]

Two critical problems with addressing these types of issues;

Definition and Action.

After 100 posts there's only a vague consesus on what 'entitlement' is. What rights and expectations are involved? What recourse is available should these rights and valid expectations are failed? For that matter there is no consesus on what to expect a whole complete game is. Is it the contents of a disc at initial lauch? Is X amount of hours of gameplay? Is it the quantity/quality of enjoyment experienced? Hard to have a discussion when everyone is speaking their own individual language. Which leads to...

Appropriately actioning our collective grievances. With no concise and well delivered arguement supported by a majority there really is no way to expect anybody to listen to thousands of individual complaints, even if they are all tenuously of the same theme. That sounds a whole heap like white noise, which gets ignored. Even in the event of single message getting support and being delivered, as a community, there hasn't been a single instance of meaningful follow through. This is a fantastic way to label the 'nay-sayers' as an over-energetic minority that has no clue and can be safely hidden away from sight.

 

[StarCecil]

In the case of EA, I don't think gamers are acting "entitled". I see a lot of crazy things being said from people who don't seem to know exactly why they're angry, but there are reasonable people with just cause to be resistant to EAs and many of the gaming industry's business practices. They simply feel, and rightly so, if they pay for an arguably expensive product, it is kind of insulting to put real ads in game (tho certain contexts make it seem more reasonable, like in forza), take out content from last years release and offering it as dlc in this years release, and in the case of me3, I can't help but feel the day 1 dlc altered the main game development by causing them to diminish the dlc character's role to nonessential status when it could've been a larger part of the game if it was included as stock content. Even if I'm wrong, from what I'm hearing the content is overpriced, and is generally not considered to be worth a 10th the value of the game (haven't played it, so not sure, just goin from my gut on this one).

Sure, we can vote with our wallets, and I wish more people would, but no one will necessarily know why sales aren't as expected if a vocal outcry is not heard.

If gamers want the end of a game rewritten, well that's tough, and an unreasonable request in my opinion. I didn't like the end of me2, found it way too abrupt and rather flimsy, but when I see steam says I've played over 40 hours, all of which was a good time, I've gotten my money's worth, and count the end as a flawed aspect of an otherwise stellar product. The journey to the end is more important.

I'm voting with my wallet on this one. I'll probably pick it up when it's half price, and I almost NEVER buy dlc, definitely not getting from ashes unless it's free.

Voting with your wallet isn't very good, either, if you've already bought the product in question. I'd rather Dragon Age 3 or ME 4 or what have you be good rather than it be lame and I just don't buy it.

 

[krellen]

The real problem is that people don't follow that up by buying something with better design/pricing/etc.

Well, I didn't buy ME3 (and I regret like hell my pre-order of ME2; I was not buying a shooter, but that's what I got), but for the life of me I cannot manage to find any gaming products following the design model I would prefer.

So I'm left a wholly untapped market, and spend my money on books.

 

[Kahunaburger]

spend my money on books.

Well, if you're looking for a good story-driven narrative that's probably the way to go anyway

 

[braincore02]

Voting with your wallet isn't very good, either, if you've already bought the product in question. I'd rather Dragon Age 3 or ME 4 or what have you be good rather than it be lame and I just don't buy it.

Well obviously you can't vote with your wallet if you've already bought it. This is why I hardly ever preorder, and when I do, I know it's a gamble, and only take safe bets. Tho I would've thought me3 was a safe bet as I'm sure so many did.

The bigger problem with voting with your wallet is that not many people seem to join you. I wonder how PC sales are doing, I suspect requiring users to install Origin has hurt EAs initial PC sales. I might've caved and bought it if I could get it off steam. I'm for dispersal of digital distribution methods, but not when EAs behind the wheel.

When I do pick the game up for half price, I'll probably vote again by abandoning my me1 and 2 save files and pick it up on a console, just to not support origin. I will buy it new tho, I hate EA, not Bioware, and I'm sure the game's worth some money. If I have to give EA some money to give Bioware its due, so be it. But not at full price.

 

[krellen]

spend my money on books.

Well, if you're looking for a good story-driven narrative that's probably the way to go anyway

Just got Shamus Young's new book today. I'm almost halfway through already. It's pretty good.

 

[viranimus]

[quote="]

I hear the term "entitled gamer" getting thrown around a lot, and wonder what the community's opinion is.

[/quote]

Use of the term entitlement as it relates to gaming is an extension of republican ideology of social entitlement. Expecting a benefactor to take care of everything for you. In the US it is a buzzword of republican talking heads to create the illusion that their political opposition is trying to create Ayn Rands worst nightmare and foster the dreaded class warfare they try to dupe people into thinking they are the victims of as well as the fear of the prospect of having to pay to take care of everyone resulting in the poor bringing down everyone else in the assumption that everyone wants something for nothing.

The same sort of individual who is duped by this have transposed the word into the gaming world to mirror that same illogical rhetoric in a gaming industry context. It is a technique to feel superior for paying for the privilege to play games and to look down on those who they wrongly assume cannot afford the cost of gaming and again assume the urchins want something for nothing when they make any sort of complaints about the economic model of the gaming industry.

So in short it is used by those who want to feel superior to others because they passed gamings entry point and as justification to look down on others when resistance toward that entry point they have already made on the automatic assumption that the only reason anyone would complain is because they want what others already got, but not having to pay what those others had to pay in order to get it.

TL;DR
It is a tool of very short sighted individuals with serious inferiority issues and incredibly narrow vision. If you cannot tell I ABSOLUTELY HATE what has been done to that word.

My opinion? it does not actually exist in reality, only in the perceptions of a very vocal minority.

 

[subtlefuge]

The idea of a negative connotation to any kind of customer entitlement is entirely asinine. Companies should be working for their customers rather than pissing on them. I am too livid to want to respond to this.

 

[McMullen]

You're entitled to not buy a product. That's all the entitlement you need. The surprising thing about the games industry is that the consumers don't even realise they have that entitlement, or choose not to use it for whatever reason. Business decisions are made in terms of sales figures. You can complain to hell and back about something like DLC, but if you go and buy that product anyway, you're ensuring that the trend will continue long into the future.

Listen to this: . . . . . . Did you hear that? That's the sound of me not buying ME3. It's easier than you might think to not give EA money. You should try it sometime.

I'm also proud to have not bought horse armour.

This. There were so many times in the lead up to the ME3 launch when EA did things to piss us off; if it wasn't SOPA, it was the DLC, or it was Jessica Chobot, or it was their crappy commercials, or their heavy-handed forum management policies. Every time there were people saying "Well, I don't want to support them, but I must have ME3".

No, you do not. What you must have is some self-respect. What you need is to understand that this shit doesn't get better until you decide that you have some goddamn free will, and are not so empty that a video game is more important to you than your rights as a consumer.

There are many things to do in life that are not Mass Effect 3. The vast majority of them are a more rewarding use of your time. Mass Effect, and all other games, should be what you use to fill the hours in between those things.

 

[MomoElektra]

somebody else on the escapist put it well
"i went to mcdonalds to buy a burger, i asked them to put cheese on it and they said that would cost extra, i mean how dare they charge for somthing extra especially when they had the cheese right there"

whoever said that i love

Well, I suppose the Day 1 DLC feels more like you buy a burger with cheese on it and pay for it and then they let you eat it but don't let you swallow the cheese unless you pay 99 cent extra.

not really? because they don't say oh and you get this dlc included in it, but we aren't going to let you play it, you buy the game, but you can buy this extra stuff that will make the game better

e.g you can just buy a burger or buy a burger with some sexy cheese on top

No you can't, because the DLC is already on the disc you buy, it just has to be activated.

 

[Matt King]

somebody else on the escapist put it well
"i went to mcdonalds to buy a burger, i asked them to put cheese on it and they said that would cost extra, i mean how dare they charge for somthing extra especially when they had the cheese right there"

whoever said that i love

Well, I suppose the Day 1 DLC feels more like you buy a burger with cheese on it and pay for it and then they let you eat it but don't let you swallow the cheese unless you pay 99 cent extra.

not really? because they don't say oh and you get this dlc included in it, but we aren't going to let you play it, you buy the game, but you can buy this extra stuff that will make the game better

e.g you can just buy a burger or buy a burger with some sexy cheese on top

No you can't, because the DLC is already on the disc you buy, it just has to be activated.

um yeah totally that's why you have to download it -__-
and before you say it, it's only the prothean character that's on the disk because of the way the characters work

 

[Acton Hank]

"entitled gamer" or "entitled customer" for that matter is thrown around as an accusation. As something dirty that should make you feel ashamed. Why? Because corporations want you to forget a very important expression: "the customer is always right".

Well guess what - the customer IS always right! If I pay for something, I sure as hell want it to be satisfactory.

The phrase " The customer is always right" is being slowly changed into "There's a sucker born every minute." because of a tidal wave of marketing, pre order bonuses, online passes and DLC.

 

[MomoElektra]

um yeah totally that's why you have to download it -__-
and before you say it, it's only the prothean character that's on the disk because of the way the characters work

Ah, ok I didn't know that.

 

[BishopofAges]

Times like this I spread a bit of what seems to be in this current age, 'old-timey wisdom' on my toast and take a bite. This wisdom is 'You get what you pay for.' Your money, your knowledge of the product, and the companies knowledge about you goes into your purchase.

People who obsess about a game, follow its development, and then whine about day-1 dlc, they believe they are entitled to it. This is because A) they followed the game as close as a train molester, thus becoming very emotionally involved in their world and B) they believe they already are paying for it when they buy 'the game.'

However, when you pay for 'the game' you receive the game, the dlc is an expansion upon the game. Back in the day, starcraft was bought and paid for, but later blizz came out with brood wars, an expansion. The only different between then and now is that they had this dlc ready by launch, why it's know as day-1 dlc. Just because you don't have to go to wal-mart to buy an additional disk doesn't mean it isn't the same thing.

Getting away from the current topic of discussion, I can say that if a game ends in a way that explains nothing and feels like a lot more story could be had, I can consider myself 'entitled' to wait to buy a sequal of that game.

This explaination is ment to be informative, rather than arguementative, I apologise if people want to argue over this.

 

[Epona]

The customer is ALWAYS entitled. Sort of how it works.

But with entertainment the waters kind of get muddied...you are legally protected from defective or unsafe products, such as spoiled meat or cars whose brakes don't work.

But with games, all the game really needs to do to qualify as a functional product is turn on. Let's say for instance that the game you just bought only runs at 12 FPS and has shitty previous generation graphics. Unless the company specifically said "Runs at 60 FPS on Xbox 360" or something like that, the product is otherwise functional. Even that would be a stretch, really.

Games that just aren't fun are protected because they are technically art...you may not like the game, but if you complain they'll just argue that it was "The developer's artistic vision". It's the dark side of the games as art debate.

So if Mass Effect 3's ending is so bad that it ruined the whole game for you (a little silly because it's actually a very good game despite a piss poor ending), well, you should have done your research before buying the game.

And also, the people asking for "Alternate Ending" DLC...you guys aren't helping.

If I buy a Microwave and it's too loud for my tastes, I will return it for a full refund. Technically the microwave does work but I am still allowed to return it. The game industry has quite the scam going. They can list faulty specs for PC games, bad framerates, bad controls, etc... and the customer can't return it.

Before anyone says that the game industry is special, no they aren't.

 

[renegade7]

The customer is ALWAYS entitled. Sort of how it works.

But with entertainment the waters kind of get muddied...you are legally protected from defective or unsafe products, such as spoiled meat or cars whose brakes don't work.

But with games, all the game really needs to do to qualify as a functional product is turn on. Let's say for instance that the game you just bought only runs at 12 FPS and has shitty previous generation graphics. Unless the company specifically said "Runs at 60 FPS on Xbox 360" or something like that, the product is otherwise functional. Even that would be a stretch, really.

Games that just aren't fun are protected because they are technically art...you may not like the game, but if you complain they'll just argue that it was "The developer's artistic vision". It's the dark side of the games as art debate.

So if Mass Effect 3's ending is so bad that it ruined the whole game for you (a little silly because it's actually a very good game despite a piss poor ending), well, you should have done your research before buying the game.

And also, the people asking for "Alternate Ending" DLC...you guys aren't helping.

If I buy a Microwave and it's too loud for my tastes, I will return it for a full refund. Technically the microwave does work but I am still allowed to return it. The game industry has quite the scam going. They can list faulty specs for PC games, bad framerates, bad controls, etc... and the customer can't return it.

Before anyone says that the game industry is special, no they aren't.

The rules do work slightly differently for the game industry because it is part of the entertainment and expressive media industry.

Basically, if you buy an appliance (like the microwave in your analogy) and it doesn't work, you are legally protected because there are clear definitions of a product not working as advertised.

However, software, games, movies, music, etc. are protected because there is not really a legal definition of a crappy song, user interface, bad gameplay, etc. It's sort of the dark side of the first amendment-someone demands their money be returned, all the company has to do is say that their product 'functioned as advertised (namely, it turns on) and did not harm its user'. No game actually comes with a guarantee that you will enjoy, for exactly that reason- fun is subjective.

Sad but true, and also the reason I never buy until I've read some reviews.