The issue of "Mens Rights"

[ms_sunlight]

But you specifically stated you wanted to start a discussion on men's rights. Even if you admitted the guy was an extremist, your post still encourages people to bash on MRA. This post only serves to further ostracize a movement that is severely misunderstood on these forums.

"Severely misunderstood?"

The more writing I read by self-professed men's rights activists, the more I see hateful, irrational bigotry supported by emotive rhetoric and unsupported by empirical evidence.

Just because someone doesn't agree doesn't mean they don't understand.

 

[drthmik]

I find it almost amusing that the opponents of the mrm movement are using the same kinds of "shut up" argument that men tried to use against woman's rights movements

Another prevailing argument that I can see here is that men have had it pretty good in some areas and so they shouldn't complain about any current inequality in other areas

 

[Jakub324]

Feminists make a angry.
"Men and women aren't equal! We want the same status as them, but we don't want to surrender the advantages we already have. Hey, Bob, hold that door open! Don't you know how to treat a lady?"
They want equality, except where it benefits them, and every man has the right to be angry about that.

 

[Combustion Kevin]

Huh, apparently being the vast majority of heads of state/board officials/executives, higher pay, and the ability to pee standing up isn't enough for some dudes.

to be fair, WE aren't officials or executives, they just happen to be men like us, they could give less then a shit about the other men who aren't as rich or succesfull.

on the other hand, taking a piss standing up IS pretty sweet, though.

OT: I think the elimination of societal gender-roles is a good thing, and everyone regardless of gender, ethnicity or faith (or lack thereof) should be equal.

the underlying issue, I'm affraid, is that some men lose their sense of direction, their "purpose" if you will, for some people being "the man", the dominant and unflinching leader who protects and provides for "his woman", is part of their identity, and gender equality effectively makes that role obsolete and will cause them to distress.

I'm just saying, most men like this just have trouble going along with the times because it conflicts with what they think makes them a "man", an ideal that has been important to men throughout CENTURIES, basicly functioning as the measurement to a man's "worthiness".

this is a mindset that needs to change, and if you know a guy like this, don't ostrisize him for thinking it, but try to help him seeing things through a different perspective.

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

Both Feminism and "Meninism" are too extreme for my tastes. I wish we could all just find that equal ground everyone keeps bitching about. I'm not a fan of chivalry, I'll help anyone that looks like they need it. Why can't we just go that route?

I must admit, being a white male has its perks as well as its issues. On one respect statically its easier for me to get a job. On the other hand if I fuck up and need help there isn't really anyone to turn to. Things like that I would like changed.

But this whole domination of the sexes just needs to stop.

 

[chiefohara]

Problem with some aspects of MRA and feminism is that they have got too many angry people in their ranks using it as a means to vent their personal issues instead of actually seeking gender equality.

This makes it easier for Average Joe and Average josephine to just dismiss actual discussion being put forward because all they tend to see is the spittle foaming loud mouth spewing thinly disgised hatred monger who is either too focused on revenge/persecution or just general all out rage to be productive. Its the rage filled idiots hijacking the whole discussion and blaming/undermining the other that hold the whole thing back.

 

[Arakasi]

Whenever a minority is suppressed, then rehabilitated, they tend to surpass the oppressors in terms of rights, and if not rights, opportunities.
It is in-fucking-credibly common and it pisses me off to no end.

People should just stop identifying people in terms of things like skin color or gender, as therin the problem lies.

Sure we can acknowledge the persons differences, but to act based upon that is a moral crime.

 

[wooty]

While im all for equality in the sexes blah blah blah, what annoys me more is the inequality in "sexist" remarks.

If.a man says something deemed as derogitory, they get chewed to pieces and dragged through the press. If a woman says something derogitory about men, its just accepted and often turned into an idea for a tv commercial.

 

[Rainbowloid]

Feminists make a angry.
"Men and women aren't equal! We want the same status as them, but we don't want to surrender the advantages we already have. Hey, Bob, hold that door open! Don't you know how to treat a lady?"
They want equality, except where it benefits them, and every man has the right to be angry about that.

...The hell feminists have you been talking to?

 

[Sarge034]

Snip

First off I'm a white heterosexual male living in western society and I'm 21.

I can tell you that there are some things that we (people in my category) get discriminated on. I have to pay more for my car insurance than a 21 year old white heterosexual female living in the same place as I do with an accident on her record. WTF is that? My record is clean but I have to pay more than someone with an accident on their record? Also, a custody battle will almost always go in favor of the woman if there is no extreme reason not to allow it.

I realize that some things go in our favor as well, but why? Why can't we be held to the same standard. Is that too much to ask?

I am enraged at affirmative action, because so what if you scored higher than that person? That person fills X spot in the affirmative action requirements. I would love to have X person in that job, IF they earned it. Another fun one, military physical requirements. Because you know, I'm going to be lighter if a female has to drag my ass out of the line of fire so they should not have to do as many push-ups, or pull ups excuse me "flexed arm hangs" (there is a difference) as a man in the same category.

Equality. No double standards, No racism, sexism, reverse-racism, or reverse-sexism. Just equality. Is that too much to ask. : ? /

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

The western male really has nothing to complain about.

Spoiler: Suicide: More than twice Female rate

In every country for which data are available, male suicide rates are at least twice as high as female suicide rates.

Please don't make statements like that. It upsets me.

Spoiler: Risk of Violence: Highest Group

Spoiler: Male Rape: Still not taken seriously. Only has existed officially for 8 years

In Europe there are no robust epidemiological data on the prevalence of rape or other sexual offences on men. Indeed, male rape did not exist in the eyes of UK law until 1994. Before this, male rape was classified as indecent assault. Following introduction of the new law, in 1995 there were 3142 indecent assaults and 227 rapes against men - an increase of 51% from 1994 (Stationary Office 1996). More recent Home Office Statistics show an increase of 400% in reported cases of male rape between 1995 and 2000. However, for many reasons, the vast majority of incidents of male rape go unreported.

 

[The Funslinger]

It is bullshit. The western male really has nothing to complain about. But please don't use the phrase "man up". It implies that guys should just suck something up and shouldn't ever complain because they are manly men. And manly men don't complain. But this is just a case of guys losing the overwhelming power that they had in society as things become more balanced and some men take that badly.

Thank you, I don't know where this victim complex among white, heterosexual, men has been cropping up all of a sudden in the past few years, but it's something I've been noticing around quite a few forums. It's like if someone brings up one double standard that goes against them, they instantly forget about the countless others that favour them. Some people just need to accept that the times are a-changing.

- Omni ^_^

Not that I'm saying it's in any way the same, but the thing is with white heterosexual males is people see them as being the untouched, sort of thing. So when someone like that is under attack by racism, or sexism or something it's much harder to get noticed.

But yeah, I dislike extreme feminists, but equally, people essentially becoming the male equivalent should be exiled...

If you're campaigning for things like "equal wages for men and women! Less discrimination over maternity leave!" sorts of things, more power to you. But people deciding all men are inherently evil, that the porn industry is somehow offensive, or that women are objects and food slaves is in desperate need of a gun barrel to the base of the skull. Because those people, sadly, do exist as a very loud minority.

 

[scw55]

I just want to be able to play Netball without being teased for it. I used to be good at it and enjoyed it when I was eight. But apparently boys don't play netball, they play shitty football.

There is inequality amongst both sexes. Extremist attitudes never helps. For a start it establishes negative stereotypes (we all are aware of the feminist stereotype. We don't need a machoist stereotype as well). It de-evaluates any genuinely good philosophy the movement has. Nationalist extremest, Religious extremists, Animal Rights extremists are all problems. As stated above they're likely to suffer from hypocrisy and contradiction.

Problem is women were more suppressed than men historically in western cultures. Doesn't excuse modern discrimination (women tend to have custody over children, 'it's 'fine' for a woman to slap a man but not the other way round' (I would imagine either way is assault and men feel embarrassed being attacked by a girl).

Again, society stopped me playing one of few sports I enjoyed because of my gender. When you're eight you don't have much willpower to 'rebel'. I hate basket ball. I can't dribble for shit. I can pass a ball and catch one very well as well as shoot through a ring.

 

[Vault101]

I find it almost amusing that the opponents of the mrm movement are using the same kinds of "shut up" argument that men tried to use against woman's rights movements

Another prevailing argument that I can see here is that men have had it pretty good in some areas and so they shouldn't complain about any current inequality in other areas

how about telling BOTH to shut up...you honestly think I think that all men are really just rapists? HELL no

I dont think getting hung up on gender helps..after a certain extent

and to be completley honest..in the end I just feeling saying "enough of this shit" ignoring it and focusing my my own life..the back and forth gets so frustrating to listen to

 

[The Funslinger]

Huh, apparently being the vast majority of heads of state/board officials/executives, higher pay, and the ability to pee standing up isn't enough for some dudes.

to be fair, WE aren't officials or executives, they just happen to be men like us, they could give less then a shit about the other men who aren't as rich or succesfull.

This, basically. "Oh, having lots of positions of power isn't enough for you"

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware I was head of a State. Please don't lump us in as one mass that has each other's backs.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

"Severely misunderstood?"

The more writing I read by self-professed men's rights activists, the more I see hateful, irrational bigotry supported by emotive rhetoric and unsupported by empirical evidence.

Just because someone doesn't agree doesn't mean they don't understand.

And this is the problem. Just like with feminism, people always provide examples of the most extreme ends of both movements. Not all masculists are misogynistic sexist bigots just like not all feminists are man hating sexist bigots. As a movement, masculism is not represented by the likes of "AngryHarry" just like feminism is not represented by the likes of Andrea Dworkin.

 

[Woodsey]

There are certain issues in which men get shafted (number 1 would be when it comes to people's kids after they're divorced), but this whole Poor White Man thing that's cropped up on the internet is mostly irritating and seemingly intentionally ignorant (and I'm thinking of example posts I've seen on the Escapist - of which there's an ever-increasing amount, it seems).

(Because this links and I've seen someone else talking about race issues already...)

No, affirmative action policies are not ideal; no, no one expects you to feel personally guilty for what white people before you have done; no, whites aren't now worse off than everyone else; yes, some people will be fucked over. Systems are imperfect; we implement imperfect systems to correct larger issues. Until things balance out naturally (which they will, eventually), that's how shit works.

As for feminism, the overblown reaction to what are clearly some very misguided (*cough* borderline insane *cough*) women practically fighting to cut our dicks off is just that: overblown. Actual feminists (which would hopefully be everyone on this forum) should be seeking gender equality, and women remain at a higher disadvantage.