The Jennifer Hepler discussion is taking a turn for the worse

[The Globalizer]

Maybe it's just me, but I really couldn't care less whether Commander Shepard has buttsex with a crewmate. I'm not playing it for the buttsex.

FWIW, my dwarf with cornrows plowed that little elf dude in DA:O. It was a hoot.

 

[him over there]

So a crappy writer tampers with lore of a story driven lore heavy videogame franchise, makes outlandish and controversial comments on a public social media site, inserts a seemingly token homosexual relationship into it and hypes it in such a way that it appears to fetishize and glorify it rather than actually having anything meaningful to share and then the internet hordes overreacted in horrible ways like they always do? how strange...

Seriously Bioware's writing is pretty hit and miss anyway plus I doubt any ME fan is playing this for the romance instead of you know, the giant epic climax to an intergalactic space opera.

Honestly shit like this is far to routine for me to get worked up over it.

 

[Frostbite3789]

Snip

...once again, but far more concise, Shepard could have no sexuality through two games, so the fact that someone could have Shepard be homosexual in the third doesn't contradict anything.

If you had a straight Shepard, that turns gay in 3, that's your choice. You don't have to make it.

Nerd culture as a whole is just...one of the must unaccepting cultures I've seen. From Idris Alba playing a Norse god in Thor, to this, we flip out over nothing.

 

[him over there]

So a crappy writer tampers with lore of a story driven lore heavy videogame franchise, makes outlandish and controversial comments on a public social media site, inserts a seemingly token homosexual relationship into it and hypes it in such a way that it appears to fetishize and glorify it rather than actually having anything meaningful to share and then the internet hordes overreacted in horrible ways like they always do? how strange...

Seriously Bioware's writing is pretty hit and miss anyway plus I doubt any ME fan is playing this for the romance instead of you know, the giant epic climax to an intergalactic space opera.

Honestly shit like this is far to routine for me to get worked up over it.

You talking about Mass Effect? Or what game do you mean that glorified homosexual realtionships?

I mean the fact that the third game will feature male homosexual romance options. That doesn't matter, what matters is the way such a big deal is made over it that it seems token, like they're going "look at us and how open and progressive we are and how super awesome it is that we have a gay option in our game." They of course had planned but scrapped options for a gay romance option in the first which was apparently left on the cutting room floor because of a fear of controversy but adding it in in the third and only the third game when it was absent from the last two feels like a plea for attention.

I'm not saying anything stupid like there weren't any options in the first two therefore it is uncanon in the third. I'm saying that leaving it out and then inserting it in the last installment like it's some big thing, some big thing that Bioware has already done at that feels pretty hollow. Why can't they merely keep the franchise consistent and do this with there next IP?

 

[him over there]

I mean the fact that the third game will feature male homosexual romance options. That doesn't matter, what matters is the way such a big deal is made over it that it seems token, like they're going "look at us and how open and progressive we are and how super awesome it is that we have a gay option in our game." They of course had planned but scrapped options for a gay romance option in the first which was apparently left on the cutting room floor because of a fear of controversy but adding it in in the third and only the third game when it was absent from the last two feels like a plea for attention.

I'm not saying anything stupid like there weren't any options in the first two therefore it is uncanon in the third. I'm saying that leaving it out and then inserting it in the last installment like it's some big thing, some big thing that Bioware has already done at that feels pretty hollow. Why can't they merely keep the franchise consistent and do this with there next IP?

But she has jack shit to do with Mass Effect... Neither ME 1, 2 or 3 list her as a writer.

Oh no I'm not mad and I know that, but clearly people throwing a shit storm don't.

 

[Cheery Lunatic]

People see her (And Mike Laidlaw, though for different reasons) as the reasons Dragon Age 2 was so much worse than it's predecessor. They blame her for it and judging by her idea of good writing, I can understand the anger. That's not to say their actions against Ms. Hepler have been mature or rational, or even sane, but I understand being upset. They don't want someone who clearly doesn't "get" games or good writing anywhere near Mass Effect 3, fearing she'll ruin that too.

As far as Shep being gay, I do think it has less with him being suddenly gay(er, if you play Femshep) and more to do with Hepler writing it and knowing what that entails.

I could be wrong though, it's been a while since I followed the internet hate machine in regards to Bioware.

I agree with this.

The woman also seems to want a "skip combat" button. I mean Jesus, why play games at all?
Story is important, that is undeniable, but starting a trend of "skipping combat" can lead to some scary stuff.

edit: Also, I'm a little surprised that so many people are bringing up the homosexual Shep thing, since where I've been visiting, no one really gives a damn about that. They call her a cancer more for the fact that this woman seems to dislike a very core part of video games.

 

[Risingblade]

Wait...they choose NOW to include the option to make Sheppard guy? What the hell? They should have done that in the first or second game.

 

[wintercoat]

Homosexual relationships are fine and all, but why can't my Shep be polyamorous? Why am I stuck with only one romance per playthrough? Why can't I get with both Tali and Garrus, with a bit of Kelly on the side? Like Garrus and the flexible shipmate, why can't it be just for the sake of being with someone? Why does every relationship have to be pretty sparkle roses and love? Why can't my very prickish, flirty Shep go from room to room until he/she can't walk anymore? Hell, in the first game, you can choose "Why not both?" if you end up going down the romance path for Liara and Ashley/Kaidan. It's Ashley's/Kaidan's preference that says no. Liara was okay with the idea. Why can't others be good with an open relationship?

 

[Cheery Lunatic]

I agree with this.

The woman also seems to want a "skip combat" button. I mean Jesus, why play games at all?
Story is important, that is undeniable, but starting a trend of "skipping combat" can lead to some scary stuff.

Yeah, why play games if you can skip combat. I mean, point & klick adventures? What's that. Or RPGs where you can solve problems without whaking something... Combat and action is not everything in a game. Interactive narrative doesn't result in me whaking Goblin number 45.

Give me the option to skip 95% of every JRPG fights, I'll probably touch them. Give me the option to skip 90% of Dragon Age Origins, I'll probably replay it. There are dozens of games I'd replay again if I could skip all that unneeded bullshit that is nothing more than padding.

Gee wiz pal, tone down the condescension, you're overwhelming me.

I understand where you're coming from, but combat and gameplay is a core part gaming. If there's a problem with it in a game we shouldn't be focusing on skipping it, we should be focusing on fixing it or being more innovative. Being able to skip gameplay gives developers more incentive to be lazy. So yeah, calling Hepler a cancer to the industry is more than a little dramatic, but I get the sentiment.

I mean, if you hate the gameplay so much watch videos on YouTube, and just watch the cutscenes. Stories have never been THAT high caliber in games to begin with anyway.

 

[Erttheking]

Sorry pal, I just don't see how having the option throws any wrenches into the story. Also I can't help but Femshep doesn't exactly throw any hints at being gay (or a xenophile) until she starts hitting on Liara halfway into the romance with her also Shepard can be anything from a man who screws Jack and walks away and punches out civilians for no reason to a guy who hugs a woman who went through Hell and back and patiently waits for the woman who can only have sex safely around once a week, saying that it wasn't part of his character makes no sense because Shepard doesn't have an established character.

 

[him over there]

I agree with this.

The woman also seems to want a "skip combat" button. I mean Jesus, why play games at all?
Story is important, that is undeniable, but starting a trend of "skipping combat" can lead to some scary stuff.

Yeah, why play games if you can skip combat. I mean, point & klick adventures? What's that. Or RPGs where you can solve problems without whaking something... Combat and action is not everything in a game. Interactive narrative doesn't result in me whaking Goblin number 45.

Give me the option to skip 95% of every JRPG fights, I'll probably touch them. Give me the option to skip 90% of Dragon Age Origins, I'll probably replay it. There are dozens of games I'd replay again if I could skip all that unneeded bullshit that is nothing more than padding.

Okay one thing I'd like to say here is that the skipping combat thing's backlash would make more sense if it was; skip the entirety of the gameplay because then it being a game becomes redundant. Plus it's sort of sad that gameplay as a whole and combat are now synonymous. It does raise an interesting point about games as a whole though, you have to do something to progress. Let's say I paid fifty bucks for Super Mario when it was new, I can't beat the first castle, like out and out can't be done. I have experienced maybe an eighth of the game and only gotten around seven or eight dollars worth of content out of it. A skip feature may be an endorsement to the elderly, those with impaired motor skills etc.

People are like it's an option and I respect that. I'm just worried that a story is going to have to be approached with this in mind though and the shift may be a little awkward.


Also It's the internet, home of abortion jokes and neurotic weirdos who flip out at the drop of a hat. Some people say if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem and you can't just ignore it and hope it goes away. I think if people stop caring it will, like Peta or the Westboro Baptist Church.

 

[Vault101]

The consequence of "forcing" it upon an already developed character like the Male Sheperd, that hasn't hinted at being homosexual at all during the series, is also damaging towards the label "homoseuxal", as it intrudes on the subjective perception of a loved character for many. The result is a lot of slander and hate speech towards homosexuality, simply because it ruins the character for many - and I understand the reluctance in people, when something cherished is changed. But it also irritates me enourmously to read line after line of "butt XXX" jokes, and all other kinds of prejudistic crap, this reactions creates.

Male Sheperd will have homosexual options in ME3. The game is too close to release now to remove it, and hopefully a well written story and a fun game will overshadow these parts of the game. But we as a gaming community could teach the developers, that if we want romances they should have integrity and meaning - not just be "around".

Sexuality, be it homo or hetero, deserves respect, and I don't feel like its being treated like that, when the world is about to blow up around you. Then it just becomes nuisance that ruins immersion.

Suddenly changing the continuity by altering an established characters sexuality...yeah, I can see a problem with that, though it could be handled reasonably well.

.

but..isnt it OPTIONAL?

like in ME2 you can fuck aliens, but you dont have too...so shepard never has to have a thing for aliens

I dont have aproblem with it because it was intended originally anyway..both ways

 

[Cheery Lunatic]

But why should I just watch videos on youtube when I can enjoy the storytelling on my rig myself?

Yes, gameplay is essential to the overall enjoyment. But you know what really blocks my enjoyment of many, many RPGs? Forced action sequences which are just there to push up excitement. Dragon Age: Origins for one is a perfect example for that. Mass Effect too. Heck, add about any Bioware game. There is a load to do outside of whaking and shooting stuff. Interacting with NPCs or just exploring areas. If I'd be honest, I could cut out about 80% of all DA:O fights and any newcomer won't find it any more boring than with them. The same goes for all installments of ME released up to this date.

I really can't find anything in the statements of this woman that outright disqualify her as a writer for games since she seems to like the interactive way of telling stories in games. You know, the part outside of combat and cutscenes you can do.

Okay, how many cutscenes/stories in JRPGs are really THAT interactive? It's mainly run from A to B, open chests full of items & equipment (that are used in battle), and then watch a cutscene (essentially a video). Rinse and repeat. If you skip the battles, there's no point to exploring as all the items you find are to help you in battles.

I don't get why some people rag so much on Mass Effect's gameplay. I think it's really fun, personally. And the funny thing about what people (or the ones I've talked to) find "boring" in Mass Effect isn't the combat, but the ridiculous amount of discussion/conversation options to the point that it's overwhelming (and that they feel that they're obligated to look at all of it). It's too text heavy for them.
Plus the entire premise surrounds fighting off a Reaper invasion. I'd find it a little ironic if you were allowed to skip all the combat. The thing with story in games is that (imo at least) it's as immersive as it is because of the combat and because of how much effort you put into it so that the story bits are just that much more satisfying. You don't get that with movies or tv shows. If you cut out the combat, you're taking away a big chunk of the gaming experience.

The problem with being able to skip the gameplay, as I said before, is that it potentially changes how developers will come at games. The ideal video game is one that is balanced between story and gameplay. If you're able to skip all of it, why work so hard developing it? Being able to skip cutscenes is part of the reason why writing and story are not as great in video games. It makes developers lazy.

I never said anything about disqualifying her as a writer. I said I understood why people were getting angry at her. And it's not that she likes the interactive way of telling stories of games, because I do too. It's that she hates playing the games, and just flat out hates the gameplay/combat (of anything). She seems like all she would enjoy playing is visual novels.
And I ain't gonna lie, the woman annoys me on a personal level as well as she seems to have a bit of an ego.

 

[Lilani]

First krogans are the typical males-dominate everything species, then, suddenly, Hamburger Helper gets involved and suddenly female krogans live in separate colonies and shit. I mean, what the fuck? Why? Surely, me playing a female Shepard and the numerous kick ass female party members were enough, right?

I'm not sure what you're getting at, here. Last I checked, until the separate colonies thing came around, there wasn't really any information given as to where all the females were. Why not fill in that gap? I know I thought about it more than once while playing. And it fits in with the theme that you never saw any female krogans out and about in ME1 or ME2.