The Macbook

[AuntyEthel]

Their interface is not more user friendly (again, a myth put forward by Apple)

Myth, or personal opinion, taste and choice?

Perhaps personal taste, but I've still yet to find anything on the Mac that's been designed better.

Many people have been saying that the Mac has better programs for movies/graphics/sound etc. but again, thats just what's been said in the media. There are great equivilants on the PC that work just as well. Many people are just not bothered as they have a pre-conceived bias against the PC. ClarinetJWD has already mentioned much of it above.

 

[jim_doki]

well, this has been informative...

1. Macs are expensive
2. Macs are good at what they do
3. Unfortunately Macs don't do much
4. There are programs on PC that are 'about' as good as those available on PC
5. PCs are cheaper
6. PCs are more flexable
7. I should have known this would develop into a flamewar

So i'm still wheighing it up.

 

[Alex_P]

Perhaps personal taste, but I've still yet to find anything on the Mac that's been designed better.

Putting the title bar all the way up at the top of the screen makes accessing menus a little bit faster (counterintuitive, but true: screen corners have infinite "depth" so you can just flick the mouse in their direction very quickly). A strongly mouse-and-menu kind of person might find OS X a bit more enjoyable than Windows or most Linux/Unix desktop environments.

Pre-OS-X Macs had the best "spatial" interface to files. This kind of view can be cluttersome but is considered very newb-friendly. Nowadays Mac, Linux, and Windows all generally go for a "file browser" interface instead.

The dock is both horrible and convenient at the same time. I think using large icons for current application is better than the icon+text approach used by the Windows taskbar. Shoving "quick-start" functionality into the same bar annoys me, however.

Certainly Spotlight (the search-for-things tool) is infinitely better than the Windows file search interface (especially the horrible dog in XP).

Windows isn't very impressive on multiple monitors and its approach to multiple desktops is pretty basic at best (still, the MSVDM Powertoy for XP does work, and that's usually all you need; I haven't tried out multiple desktops on Vista because I only use it to run games). Linux using GNOME or KDE is pretty much as good as OS X for all that stuff, though.

Unless you pay for stuff, the OS X user interface is also bit more customizable than Windows Vista or XP. (Modern Linuces beat the crap out of both in this department, however. You can fiddle with everything.)

Many people have been saying that the Mac has better programs for movies/graphics/sound etc. but again, thats just what's been said in the media.

Well, I think that the applications pre-loaded on a Mac are usually better than the ones pre-loaded on Windows. There's more stuff -- including free stuff -- available for Windows, though; although sometimes installing it is a pain. After using Synaptic for a while, however, installing stuff on a Mac or Windows box feels downright primitive.

-- Alex

 

[clarinetJWD]

After using Synaptic for a while, however, installing stuff on a Mac or Windows box feels downright primitive.

-- Alex

Well said! Synaptic is amazing, nearly everything you could need installed with a simple search and click. I would LOVE Windows and Mac to have something like that, but the problem is licensing. The vast majority of Linux applications are both free and open-source, while the vast majority of Windows and Mac applications cost money and are closed source. Therefore, licensing through a single download manager would be a nightmare, not to mention that Google would come out with one, and file another antitrust lawsuit at Redmond if they ever tried that.

 

[shadow skill]

I just buy good ole pc hardware and use Linux, I don't really have a problem with Macs though. Oh and Gentoo FTW

 

[NeedAUserName]

I have always used a mac. Mainly due to them never crashing, getting viruses or dying. But I feel they basically are the same as Microsoft computers, although it can be a bit of a bugger to get a good 2 buttoned mouse for it.

 

[AceDiamond]

My only real gripe with Apple or Some Apple Mac fans is the swagger they carry themselves with. I am sorry but the adverts that were nothing but an endless put down effort on PC's. Come on Apple, do you really need to tell people PC's suck buy an apple? how about selling apple on its merits as opposed to its competitions possible flaws? Rather weak if you ask me.

This pretty much illustrates my entire stance on my dislike for Apple and their intellectual dishonesty. It's why I really liked Microsoft's recent "I'm a PC..." commercial they've rolled out with where PC users basically debunk all the stupid stereotypes and outright lies Apple has been flinging in the public's direction

Of course I'm not surprised Apple would do this, Steve Jobs got money through the using of and lying to his best friend right from the start, if anybody knows the story of Breakout.

 

[Alex_P]

This pretty much illustrates my entire stance on my dislike for Apple and their intellectual dishonesty. It's why I really liked Microsoft's recent "I'm a PC..." commercial they've rolled out with where PC users basically debunk all the stupid stereotypes and outright lies Apple has been flinging in the public's direction

I thought those commercials were a good idea overall, but I have two big objections:
1. The point of "Mac vs. PC" is that the computer itself is a wimpy, confused accountant-type guy, not that the user is. It's supposed to evoke various annoyances of dealing with a computer that behaves this way when you the user, in fact, aren't like this -- Clippy is the prime example here. The "I'm a PC" commercials are intentionally misrepresenting this.
2. Deepak Chopra.

(Third objection: oh, c'mon, you know beard guy is Linux!)

-- Alex

 

[jim_doki]

Khell touches on an interesting point. PCs are definately more common and widespread. is this a case of the masses being right for a change?

 

[Alex_P]

Macs don't get as many viruses because when some fuckwit wants to cause mayhem, is he going to design a Windows-based virus, which will infect 75% of all computers, or a Mac one which will infect at-most 10% of all computers (15% balance is Unix, Linux, etc)? Mac is rarely worth an idiot's time to infect because there's more damage to be done with PCs by simple numbers.

There's a bit more to it than that.

OS X implements a UNIX-like model of user privileges. The general benefit of this is that most of the bad shit a virus can easily do is pretty lame. For example, it can wipe out your home space, but it's a bit harder to destroy actual OS data. Viruses run by regular users have to find a specific exploit to escalate their privileges. This barrier is lower in Windows (Vista tries hard to create something like this, but it's still poor because of Windows' history -- mostly because applications are still designed with the old "user is admin" paradigm in mind, causing them to continually ask for administrator privileges in order to accomplish even basic shit).

-- Alex

 

[AceDiamond]

This pretty much illustrates my entire stance on my dislike for Apple and their intellectual dishonesty. It's why I really liked Microsoft's recent "I'm a PC..." commercial they've rolled out with where PC users basically debunk all the stupid stereotypes and outright lies Apple has been flinging in the public's direction

I thought those commercials were a good idea overall, but I have two big objections:
1. The point of "Mac vs. PC" is that the computer itself is a wimpy, confused accountant-type guy, not that the user is. It's supposed to evoke various annoyances of dealing with a computer that behaves this way when you the user, in fact, aren't like this -- Clippy is the prime example here. The "I'm a PC" commercials are intentionally misrepresenting this.
2. Deepak Chopra.

(Third objection: oh, c'mon, you know beard guy is Linux!)

-- Alex

1. The problem is that the representation of the PC and Mac in those commercials become in the public eye, an extension of their userbase. Nobody wants to be a bespectacled nerd, they want to be the hip, trendy guy (i.e. a mac). So no, the "I'm a PC" commercials aren't misrepresenting it especially when they kick it off with "I'm a PC and I've been made into a stereotype" and "I'm a PC and I do stuff you think is boring" (not sure on the exact phrasing of the second-lead in).
2. Not sure what Deepak Chopra has to do with this.

 

[Alex_P]

This pretty much illustrates my entire stance on my dislike for Apple and their intellectual dishonesty. It's why I really liked Microsoft's recent "I'm a PC..." commercial they've rolled out with where PC users basically debunk all the stupid stereotypes and outright lies Apple has been flinging in the public's direction

I thought those commercials were a good idea overall, but I have two big objections:
1. The point of "Mac vs. PC" is that the computer itself is a wimpy, confused accountant-type guy, not that the user is. It's supposed to evoke various annoyances of dealing with a computer that behaves this way when you the user, in fact, aren't like this -- Clippy is the prime example here. The "I'm a PC" commercials are intentionally misrepresenting this.
2. Deepak Chopra.

(Third objection: oh, c'mon, you know beard guy is Linux!)

-- Alex

1. The problem is that the representation of the PC and Mac in those commercials become in the public eye, an extension of their userbase. Nobody wants to be a bespectacled nerd, they want to be the hip, trendy guy (i.e. a mac). So no, the "I'm a PC" commercials aren't misrepresenting it especially when they kick it off with "I'm a PC and I've been made into a stereotype" and "I'm a PC and I do stuff you think is boring" (not sure on the exact phrasing of the second-lead in).
2. Not sure what Deepak Chopra has to do with this.

1. Enh, most of the folks I know actually find trendy guy horribly annoying. He's only recently developed anything even barely resembling wit. Whereas "PC" as played by John Hodgman is actually cute, because "PC" is trying very hard to be lovable. Moreover, the only reason the ads are actually interesting is because "PC" is adorable trying but failing. That's a factor that's kinda been undercutting "Mac vs. PC" message for quite a while now.
2. Deepak Chopra is in every fucking "I'm a PC" ad. Deepak Chopra is one of the world's biggest purveyors of New-Age woo. Hence, I treat any product or service that actively seeks out the support of Deepak Chopra with suspicion. Deepak Chopra is not someone that anyone with an inkling of sense should ever, ever trust.

-- Alex