The Makings of a Great RPG

[genamp]

For me, it's all about story. I like a linear tale told in a malleable fashion, but not so much that it just warps and eschews itself. The ability to change points helps. But if it's totally let loose, then too much can be lost along the way. Also, it has to be intelligent, sobering, poignant, but also humorous and light-hearted, at appropriate times. Maturity and complexity, without being overbearing are both key points to a good RPG. Characters also play a strong role; if you have terrible characters (i.e. Allister in DA, Snow in FFXIII) then the game is reflected as so. Disgaea succeeds in the character department because of the environment that the game sits in. It's quirky, but so engaging.
Also, I like it when the gameplay compliments the story, rather than being its own attachment. Oblivion and P4 do great jobs in this department, due to the fact that they simply go with the story. Oblivion has a visceral, fast and fluid feel that is reflected in the open world, real time gameplay. P4--one of the greatest achievements, RPG wise--has gameplay that is almost archaically different, yet it mixes itself with the unconventional-based mechanics that the crux of the game is composed of. It's a wonderful old-meets-new spin that refreshes the genre, in my opinion.

As for my favorites, I love the Persona series, and I have since the late 1990's. They combine nearly everything that RPGs need, and then they amp those attributes up to a level of quality hardly ever seen. BioWare's classics are fantastic too. I have a strong affinity towards the Baldur's Gate series. Vampire (Bloodline and Redemption) series is fun, but I'm turned off by how non-linear they are at times. In Bloodlines, it was overwhelming at certain points. And finally, the Tales of games have a special place in my heart. Something about the battle systems, and the simplistic stories mired in subtext, metaphor, and philosophy really piqued my love for them.

 

[Kliss88]

I like games RPGs that span multiple generations (I maybe the only one) where you can hook up multiple characters and their offspring has traits based on the pairing. I also like games that give you more then just a set team so you can actually pick your favorite characters to fight along side you. I enjoy turn-based RPGs as well as strategy games such as Fire Emblem and older dragon quest (warrior) and Final Fantasy games.

Story is also a must as well as love-able characters, it can have some cliche points as long as the points are done in a way that draw me in. Yes you want to defeat the evil bad guy and you need to collect the power of the dragons, throw in some humor and a perverted guy and I'm playing and laughing for hours. (looking at you Lunar)

 

[GuitArchon]

OP, I think you need to broaden your view of RPGs. To me, a game like Mass Effect or Fallout 3 is primarily an RPG with some other elements mixed in, and they've both received great critical and commercial acclaim.

To me, an RPG is definied by the very name of the genre: Roleplaying game. When I play an RPG, I want to be able to create a character that is uniquely mine and shape the story as I see fit. Also, most great RPGs put the player at the center of a worldwide (or even universal) conflict, accompanied by a memorable party of characters. Great RPGs should be compelling, emotionally gripping, and have solid enough gameplay to make them more than just animated storybooks.

My favorite RPGs are the Baldur's Gate series (PC versions, anyway), the Icewind Dale series, Planescape: Torment, Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura, Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines, the Mass Effect series, the Fallout series (except Tactics), Jade Empire, and Dragon Age.

All of my favorite RPGs, in case you haven't noticed, contain all of the elements that I listed above. I have a hard time considering JRPGs true RPGs, since they're all (with few notable exceptions) terribly linear with little or no opportunity for player-driven character development; newer Final Fantasy games are at least allowing players to customize their characters' classes, which is a step in the right direction.

I completely understand what you mean by addressing the title of "RPG." By technical definition alone, nearly every video game would qualify as an RPG, as you assume the Role of a character in a Game and Play through it.

Also, great choices on favorites, especially Mass Effect and Dragon Age. Their customization really makes me feel like it's living up to the genre "Role Playing" Game.

 

[Tsadhe]

In response to darth.pixie:

It was more weird not to have a voice in DA because everyone else was fully voiced. In Neverwinter Nights and Baldur's Gate, almost everything else anyone said was text-based as well with a few exceptions here and there. In DA, this fact made it feel like the other characters had better personalities and were ultimately more important in the story than your character, who felt more like the random guy that everyone just happened to form their little merry band around because he was "the straight man" and he "Got stuff done".

In Oblivion, the focus wasn't so much on dialog and story for me as it was about exploration and adventuring, so the conversations didn't feel much like they were all that important to what I was doing in the first place, whereas conversation largely drove the plot in DA. Plus, dialog was already so awkward and weird in Oblivion that the fact that you had no voice took a major back seat to the weird, uncanny-valley faces of the NPCs and the fact that occasionally people's voices would completely change in the middle of conversation.

As for the voice-acting in Mass Effect, I mostly agree with you. I didn't really notice that male Shepard's voice was all that terrible until I played female and realized it was better, and then it seemed like the only way to make female Shepard sound right was to be renegade, because otherwise she flipped too much between sounding "Forced-happy" and "about to hit someone".

Nevertheless, they weren't so bad that I couldn't stand them, and they made the experience feel more real regardless. The voices made the main character seem more like a real person, and while it was possible that their voice wouldn't match their face at all, I realize that we still haven't gotten to the point where we can have a fully-voice-acted game and get to choose between multiple voices.

Which is something I secretly pray for every time a new RPG is announced.

Anyway, I hope that helps answer those particular inquiries.

 

[Tsadhe]

On a more light-hearted note, occasionally all I need in a turn-based game is ridiculously awesome attack animations. This is why Radiant Historia vaguely excites me.

However its also a game I'm not buying because a friend is buying it, and lord knows I'm not investing in any JRPG I can just borrow from someone after they're done with it.

 

[GotMalkAvian]

I completely understand what you mean by addressing the title of "RPG." By technical definition alone, nearly every video game would qualify as an RPG, as you assume the Role of a character in a Game and Play through it.

True enough about virtually every game being an RPG based on taking on a role, but I guess I look specifically for character customization and the ability of the player to influence the story.

 

[Georgie_Leech]

A good RPG needs to have a well-crafted story, whether simple, elegant, or epic. It must have well fleshed out characters, not just stereotypes, cliches, or flat tropes. The combat system should be simple enough to understand, but deep enough to support actual strategy and differing playing styles. There should be elements of exploration, of uncovering secrets, solving riddles, finding new cities, or just a simple beautiful part of the landscape. Ideally, the game world should be flexible, changing with the actions of the player with semi-realistic consequences.

Not many games fit all of the criteria of course, but so long as an RPG has most of these, it can be considered good. I submit the Baldur's Gate games, and of course Lufia II, the home of my avatar.

 

[darth.pixie]

snip

It does, really, thank you. I never noticed who has a voice or not, mainly because I imagine my characters having their own voices as I read their lines.

I once had a half-orc monk that sounded like Morgan Freeman.

In Oblivion, almost every NPC scared me, so I just wanted the dialogues to be over.

For me, Mass Effect voice acting broke immersion immensly. If I wanted to play paragon as Female Shepard, it came off awkward and I felt forced to bash heads. The opposite for the Male Shepard. I nearly didn't finish the games because of it and I only did the main quests with some side quests here and there. I was dissapointed.

It's possible to make more voices and even to have an option to turn off VO's. I assume it's too expensive, time consuming or somesuch. Shame really...

 

[GuitArchon]

I completely understand what you mean by addressing the title of "RPG." By technical definition alone, nearly every video game would qualify as an RPG, as you assume the Role of a character in a Game and Play through it.

True enough about virtually every game being an RPG based on taking on a role, but I guess I look specifically for character customization and the ability of the player to influence the story.

Yeah, I have a biased tendency to lean the same way. 3 of the best examples I can list of these types of RPGs from recent memories are:

-Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion
Character appearance and class customization was EXTREMELY in-depth and fun to tinker with. Not only that, but they did a relatively decent job of making every stat fun to play with (I'm ashamed to admit the amount of time I spent brewing potions). The only times the immersion was broken for me was how enemies would rarely (if ever) flinch or react at all to my attacks (i.e. they seemed unharmed by my broadsword until they instantly fell over dead), and how little variety there was in each dungeon. Even then, those are minor gripes.

-Mass Effect 1 & 2
Customization was great and the story and characters are amongst the most memorable I've ever experienced in an RPG. I just wish they'd find the middleground between ME 1's overwhelming number of stats to upgrade and ME 2's 'bare-bones' approach.

-Dragon Age Origins
Again, fantastic customization, branching dialogue options, outstanding characters whom you'll quote throughout the day, and, the thing I found most interesting, choosing your backstory and getting to play it out. The only complaints I have are the fact that your character is voiceless and some of the enemy encounters can make HUGE leaps in difficulty while remaining on the same difficulty setting.

 

[gl1koz3]

RPGs should have choices to be made on each corner. If something is happening, you MUST have a choice to make. Otherwise it is not an RPG. By this it also means some RPGs are more so than others. The choices also need to vary in consequences and, ideally, in means to execute them.

I'm not touching other qualities as immersion or characters or whatnot directly, as these naturally should lead to the choices. The more idiotic the components of them, the less interesting the choices, but you can still say it's an RPG, though a bad one, and, as I mentioned, they need to vary. So, if you've got to shoot everyone, that's not a choice - it's an obligation of the game.

 

[Slycne]

I completely understand what you mean by addressing the title of "RPG." By technical definition alone, nearly every video game would qualify as an RPG, as you assume the Role of a character in a Game and Play through it.

This is a commonly made argument that I feel is fundamentally incorrect. A true RPG is not only taking on the avatar/role of a character, but more importantly is having the capacity to make choices and impose those choices on the world, see the philosophy of player agency.

Now the technical limitations of the video game medium tend to constrain these choices, but this still becomes the dividing line in the distinction.

 

[Tsadhe]

-Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion
Character appearance and class customization was EXTREMELY in-depth and fun to tinker with.

The problem with Oblivion appearance customization was that all the sliders went from "ugly" to "yep you're still ugly".

 

[Rivers Wells]

1. Stick to a foreign but familiar landscape. Think of H.P. Lovecraft who used to scare us with things eerily familiar but totally distorted. If you're going to avoid cultural boundaries getting in the way of enjoyment and appeal to a large audience, get creative and create a unique universe we can nonetheless sympathize with but is just "new" enough to keep people invested in the story.

2. Characters need arcs and not heavy handed ones. Make the issues easy to relate too but NOT IMMATURE. Your audience assumes your insulting them when you expect them to sympathize with a weak, pathetic, completely over the top useless character (re: Hope from Final Fantasy 13). Keep the cast small and focus on their individual issues. If your cast gets too large, it gets hard to invest in any one character very deeply when the story shifts focus constantly (re: Chrono Cross).

3. Find a gimmick and exploit the hell out of it. Some of the best RPG's have a simple premise taken to extremes. Final Fantasy: Everyone has a Job and specializes over time; Chrono Trigger: Attacks wok better when the party works together; Chrono Cross: Stamina determines attack chances and lead to powerful magic attacks; Skies of Arcadia: Ship battles intertwining with ground combat. The list goes on, of course, but you need to have a unique mechanic to stand out in the market.

4. Keep you're story to the point. A game encompassing 20 novels is not necessarily well written. It is however almost certainly bloated and unwieldy. Pacing is key to any great story and is, I believe, the greatest challenge facing game stories today. When a mission tells you to go to a location and activate 3 consoles or whatever and the section takes an hour to just move to the next room, it can bring an otherwise involving story to its knees. Keep the story going and involve it in the action taking place. Remember: a game, no matter how well written, fails if it cannot hold an individuals attention and causes them to forget the story. Think how many times you've stopped and said: Wait...what am I doing this for again?

5. Keep your aesthetics in check! JRPG's: No one needs that many buckles no matter how many 14-years-olds tell you it looks "awesome". Western RPG's: The color palette extends beyond 5 degrees off the brown scale and no black doesn't count as improving things. Be creative with your designs WHILE respecting that restraint can go a very long way towards creating a great image for your audience.

 

[GotMalkAvian]

-Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion
Character appearance and class customization was EXTREMELY in-depth and fun to tinker with. Not only that, but they did a relatively decent job of making every stat fun to play with (I'm ashamed to admit the amount of time I spent brewing potions). The only times the immersion was broken for me was how enemies would rarely (if ever) flinch or react at all to my attacks (i.e. they seemed unharmed by my broadsword until they instantly fell over dead), and how little variety there was in each dungeon. Even then, those are minor gripes.

I forgot about the Elder Scrolls series. Definitely a great series with a ton of immersion and ridiculously deep character customiztion. I know it's a really small detail, and doesn't matter at all to gameplay, but I love being able to choose what clothes my character wears as well as their armor.

 

[Assassin Xaero]

1. Fun. Seriously, Dragon Age was the exact opposite of this for at least half the game. Oblivion I can't get into, and Divinity II is pretty fun, but at the same time hard with no place to grind.
2. No goblins, trolls, elves, or other fairy shit.

My favorite non-FPS RPG was Final Fantasy 7, and besides the Final Fantasy series and Divinity II, I haven't had much fun with RPG games.

 

[StriderShinryu]

What it all comes down to, for me, is characters I enjoy and care about. They don't need to be non cliched or even overly unique, they just have to be interesting and likable. This holds true whether it's an RPG hybrid like Mass Effect or a more straight up RPG like games in the Tales series. I also want to feel like I have some impact on the world and story even if it's just an illusion created by being able to occasionally explore the world or tinker with side quests.

 

[Sovereignty]

I want a new title for the RPG genre as I feel every single video game is in of itself a role playing game. Hell I'm not a colonial marine, nor am I a football star. I'm playing the role of one.

But that's simply to market it better, for what you asked specifically:

I enjoy beautiful character designs and graphics that pull you in (Who gives a crap about names so long as they're not omgWTFlame style ones)

And my favorites were:

FFVIII solid story, cool graphics and character art. Pulled me in and kept me in.
Way of the Samurai 2, just a great game that really made it feel like I was apart of a changing world. If only 3 had sold better... I'd love another WOTS

 

[FC Groningen]

1st:

Storyline. The setup could start out like any other, but the storyline should set itself apart from other RPG's at some point. The Characters must fit the storyline as well and it would nice to have some characters you can relate to instead of the stereotype characters. Especially the Alpha males and love interests usually screw it for me. An example is Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn. The story started out slow, but eventually boiled down to a very interesting path. From relative minor issues to epic events.

2nd:

It needs to set itself apart on something. I don't care what, but there should be at least 1 element that makes you want to keep playing. I kept playing Golden Sun for example because I really liked the Psynergy system and summoning/Djinn system, but also because it was a graphical spectacle each time you learned a new move/spell/summon. Those made it also worth it to level up and to continue.

3rd:

Unless the storyline is really good, "developing" should feel as a reward as well. Like I said above. If leveling doesn't make the game easier for you, the effort you put in it feels like a waste of time or an insult to the game. Oblivion for example didn't reward leveling. It should do more than just advancing the plot. There could be small things like allowing some sidequests that are conditional, or fighting previous bosses and then notice that you beat them easily.

4th:

Closure. If you play a long game, making it to the end should feel like a reward and you want to know how it ended. Some might disagree, but I hate getting ends that are filled with cliff hangers. If you want to make a sequel, go ahead, but explain why there should be a sequel in the sequel itself. That will also make the surprise in the sequel bigger and the storyline better.