The misinterpretation of evolution

[Deacon Cole]

There is no reasone why Creationism nor evolution can be taught simulataneously.

Yes there is:

Because it's science class, not mythology.

 

[Avatar Roku]

I'm a Crevolutionist. I believe that God likes dominoes and set up the entire universe to play through this. So, you can't really put Creationism at odds with Evolution. I think the problem is that people do put it as Evolution vs. Creationism.

While I do believe in Evolution and not at all in Creationism, I think you are absolutely right. People really do make a false dichotomy between the two. Theoretically speaking, there's no reason that God couldn't have put all the observed scientific processes in motion. Some religious people I've seen act like science will put an end to religion, but they shouldn't even be in competition! One is the how, the other is the why.

However, I do not think everyone should be forced to believe in evolution, if people don't want to, why make them?

Belief has no place in matters of science. If something can be demonstrated to be true, then you either accept it as truth, or you are a fool.

I think some problems stem from calling evolution a theory. To people who don't understand it, it gives the impression that there's still a good chance it could be wrong. While there are missing links here and there, evolution has a pretty sound case.

I think we should make it a law so all the creationists can either shut the fuck up or make better, and possibly more hilarious, arguments.

It'll be swell.

See my above post (#33). Theories do not become Laws.

Can we at-least choose a different word? Most people can't seem to grasp what a theory is in a scientific context.

I could get behind that. It really is irritating having to explain that.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

Everything I know about evolution I learned from this game:

This is how mammals superseded the reptiles!

Educational stuff

I need to find this game...it reminds me of Pokemon only it has actual Dinosaurs!

As for the evolution thing, evolution isn't something to believe in, it's a constant. Evolution occurs at all times just with varying levels of change per-generation. You don't believe in something if it's been proven since believe implies the subject of belief is something which may or may not be. When you push the red button attached to the enclosed box, you have one of two choices: the belief that the cat is alive or, the belief that you have just killed it. This belief is a constant until you look inside of it. I know I just cited something completely different but I'm tired and have no business posting at the moment e.e I just wanted to say that I am American and I call bullshit on creationism. God didn't create the universe, heavens and, Earth in 6 days, 5,000 years ago because we have fossils on Earth which are millions (and I think billions at this point) of years old. Ours wasn't even the first planet to form and it won't be the first or last to expire.

 

[Delsana]

Well the bible says that on a particular day He created man and then woman out of man.

There's really nothing to interpret out of that.

So... creationism.

Alrighty then.

---

Outside of that... when you can find the missing mitochondria eve then we will chat about EVOLUTION, but until then I'm not giving it a thought.

 

[kouriichi]

Let me wrap this whole thing up in burritos. (thats right, im gunna wrap it like a burrito, with burritos.)

Sheep are Stupid.
Sheep are part of a flock. ((Unless theyre black sheep. Then its a Murder of Sheep))
The sheep will listen to whatever the dogs bark loudest. This is learned from an early age, because of the sheep doesnt listen, they get bit.
The dogs like to keep order, and control the flock ((or murder)) of sheep. So they bark loudly.

Now if you didnt get that analogy, let me explain it.

People are stupid.
People are part of religions. ((Unless theyre black sheep. Then its Atheism))
The people will listen to whatever their leaders/parents/priests ideas are. This is learned from an early age, because of the person doesnt listen, they get punished.
The leaders/parents/priests like to keep order, and control the people. So they force their ideas.

Roughly 50% of Americans dont believe in evolution.
Roughly 76% of Americans identify themselves as christian.
Christians are told from an early age, "God made man".
Because they are "brainwashed" (for lack of a better term) to believe what is RIGHT and WRONG, they never read in depth "theories" like Evolution.
Yes, this means many Christians are able to see past their "brainwashing" (again, for lack of a better term), but it also means many are blind, and dont WANT to see past it.

See how it all fits together? Most people who dont believe in evolution, are Christians. Anyone else is well.... an idiot. (Not in the insulting way. I mean "uneducated". And not in a bad way)
Because the large majority of people were told from childhood, "God is always right, never question him, he made the world and everyone on it", they dont believe in evolution.

Im not saying religion is bad. But there is a pretty large correlation between Religion, and the halt of scientific progress.

Please note: I am not saying anyone else has to believe this. This is just my belief. This is MY take on the situation and reason behind evolution being such a misinterpreted subject. If i offended you, sorry. It was not my intention.

 

[NotAwesomeAtAll]

.

 

[enzilewulf]

"That's right, around 50% of the population of the United States does not believe in evolution, and that is sad"

Who put you on such a high horse? You know what? Your saying its sad that people don't believe in what you do, and that is sad. Seriously most people don't give a shit about Human evolution so deal with it. Why do people who strongly believe in Evolution have to be such dick heads? Sorry we can't all be like you.

 

[Delsana]

Let me wrap this whole thing up in burritos. (thats right, im gunna wrap it like a burrito, with burritos.)

Sheep are Stupid.
Sheep are part of a flock. ((Unless theyre black sheep. Then its a Murder of Sheep))
The sheep will listen to whatever the dogs bark loudest. This is learned from an early age, because of the sheep doesnt listen, they get bit.
The dogs like to keep order, and control the flock ((or murder)) of sheep. So they bark loudly.

Now if you didnt get that analogy, let me explain it.

People are stupid.
People are part of religions. ((Unless theyre black sheep. Then its Atheism))
The people will listen to whatever their leaders/parents/priests ideas are. This is learned from an early age, because of the person doesnt listen, they get punished.
The leaders/parents/priests like to keep order, and control the people. So they force their ideas.

Roughly 50% of Americans dont believe in evolution.
Roughly 76% of Americans identify themselves as christian.
Christians are told from an early age, "God made man".
Because they are "brainwashed" (for lack of a better term) to believe what is RIGHT and WRONG, they never read in depth "theories" like Evolution.
Yes, this means many Christians are able to see past their "brainwashing" (again, for lack of a better term), but it also means many are blind, and dont WANT to see past it.

See how it all fits together? Most people who dont believe in evolution, are Christians. Anyone else is well.... an idiot. (Not in the insulting way. I mean "uneducated". And not in a bad way)
Because the large majority of people were told from childhood, "God is always right, never question him, he made the world and everyone on it", they dont believe in evolution.

Im not saying religion is bad. But there is a pretty large correlation between Religion, and the halt of scientific progress.

Please note: I am not saying anyone else has to believe this. This is just my belief. This is MY take on the situation and reason behind evolution being such a misinterpreted subject. If i offended you, sorry. It was not my intention.

So your belief is that Evolution is obviously the "intelligent" side.

Interesting, though I know numerous intelligent Christians that are far more capable than either of us and they wholeheartedly explain, and defend Creationism.

 

[Avatar Roku]

Well the bible says that on a particular day He created man and than woman out of man.

There's really nothing to interpret out of that.

So... creationism.

Alrighty then.

---

Outside of that... when you can find the missing mitochondria eve then we will chat about EVOLUTION, but until then I'm not giving it a thought.

I really don't mean to get into a huge discussion about this (unless you want to take this to a PM), but how is the bible proof? It's basically the same as saying your friend told you: anecdotal evidence that holds no water.

I know you believe it, and that's fine for you and anyone else who does, but can you at least see how others would not?

Also, I am unfamiliar with the whole thing with the missing mitochondria. What is that?

 

[cdstephens]

I will start off by saying I am no scientist. However, I have noticed that almost everywhere (including here on the Escapist) many people do not understand evolution. This not just simple missteps like accidentally involving use and disuse into your arguments, but major misinterpretations. But this is not the problem, simple misunderstanding and misinterpretations are not somehow horrible offenses. However this has lead to a problem.
These misinterpretations have now lead to a whole culture of people who not only refuse to believe in evolution, but also use their misinterpretations to fuel their arguments. An example of this run amok by ignorants is "Darwinism" (which is an extremely annoying name as Darwin had nothing to do with the theory), which was really just and excuse to "prove" racism. A modern example is half the population of the United States (or less since I have not checked recent polls). That's right, around 50% of the population of the United States does not believe in evolution, and that is sad. Especially since the scientific theory has undergone so much criticism and a constant wave of evidence, that it has become almost completely infallible. And yet people still live ignorant of it as they have been misinformed about evolution.
This all comes down to a single point. Why and how is this happening? Is it because our media seems to commonly ignore facts? Is it because people jump onto bandwagons just to get away from the "norm" of evolution? Is it because our public schools have failed to teach adequate science in the classroom? Is it because of the rise of Creationism and Intelligent design (which are the same exact thing) has been corrupting our science classes and media? I would just like to hear other people's opinions on this.

One reason really. People don't like change. They like the status quo, and don't like to be told that something they've believed for their entire life is wrong. Combined with the fact that Creationism has been around for thousands of years, it's no wonder really. People are ignorant, and people don't like leaving their comfort zone. The media and various politicians don't help because they love to pander people.

As far as I understand it btw from taking high school biology, various mutations in DNA caused by mutations and later on DNA remixing (half of the male half of the female, for example) results in subtle changes in the species. If a trait happens to be advantageous, it'll propagate itself through the population. Enough of these tiny changes results in a distinct difference if you're comparing generations separated by centuries of change. Much easier to see in microorganisms, harder to see in multi-celled creatures. Over thousands and millions of years, new species develop from this process. It's a more or less random process that only relatively recently has been used with specific goals in mind (i.e. genetic engineering).

This is coming from a teenage Christian who was a Creationist 4 years ago but along the way realized it didn't make any sense.

I *personally* hold the belief that God had a hand in shaping the universe with the Big Bang, and existing outside of the universe could subtly change events to his favor. That's my personal belief not found in the Bible of course and do not expect people to believe in it like me. Just my way of creating an objective moral system and purpose in the universe.

I just think that there are some things science cannot explain simply because they by their nature are unobservable, usually the "why" questions, like "why was there a Big Bang?"

 

[Avatar Roku]

"That's right, around 50% of the population of the United States does not believe in evolution, and that is sad"

Who put you on such a high horse? You know what? Your saying its sad that people don't believe in what you do, and that is sad. Seriously most people don't give a shit about Human evolution so deal with it. Why do people who strongly believe in Evolution have to be such dick heads? Sorry we can't all be like you.

Because Evolution is not a belief. It is something with actual evidence behind it. So much so that it has become a Scientific Theory, which basically means that it is damn near proven (confusing terminology, I admit).

snipped for space

So your belief is that Evolution is obviously the "intelligent" side.

Interesting, though I know numerous intelligent Christians that are far more capable than either of us and they wholeheartedly explain, and defend Creationism.

Anecdotal, hearsay evidence. I have no doubt that these people truly are intelligent, but that does not prove your point.

 

[Hides His Eyes]

I am a Catholic, but I still know that evolution exists, and I agree that it is appalling that most people don't don't know about it. However, I do not think everyone should be forced to believe in evolution, if people don't want to, why make them? Intelligent design is still a possible theory, as is the theory of evolution, I think God guided evolution but, I'm not going to go around and try and make people teach this in schools everywhere.

I don't think it should be forced onto people, however I do have a problem with Intelligent Design (and Creationism as they are the same). My problem is not with their existence but they idea that they are an acceptable scientific alternative to evolution. THEY ARE NOT. They are an acceptable alternative to evolution from a philosophical point of view, but not a scientific point of view. They are not science, thus they are not scientific theory. The reason they are not science is because they do not offer the main reason for the existence of science, evidence. All that exists for Intelligent Design is instead attempts to disprove Evolution, and no proof for the idea of ID itself.

I don't think you quite go far enough here. I don't think creationism/I.D. works as philosophy any more than it works as science. I mean, philosophy is about logic and reason just like science, it simply lacks any hard data to base its findings on. With the question of evolution vs. I.D. there IS hard data, and it favours evolution. Exactly like questions of chemistry and physics, this is something to be resolved by scientists, not philosophers or anyone else.

As a religious belief I think I.D. is absolutely fine, so long as it's not shoved down anyone's throat and so long as everyone understands the most basic fact about religious beliefs: they reject scientific thought. If you're ok with your beliefs contradicting rational scientific thought then go for it, but don't bother trying to reconcile them because you can't.

As for the OP, I totally agree. I don't know anyone who seriously doubts the theory of evolution but I know there are a lot of people out there who do and it really sucks.

 

[kouriichi]

Let me wrap this whole thing up in burritos. (thats right, im gunna wrap it like a burrito, with burritos.)

Sheep are Stupid.
Sheep are part of a flock. ((Unless theyre black sheep. Then its a Murder of Sheep))
The sheep will listen to whatever the dogs bark loudest. This is learned from an early age, because of the sheep doesnt listen, they get bit.
The dogs like to keep order, and control the flock ((or murder)) of sheep. So they bark loudly.

Now if you didnt get that analogy, let me explain it.

People are stupid.
People are part of religions. ((Unless theyre black sheep. Then its Atheism))
The people will listen to whatever their leaders/parents/priests ideas are. This is learned from an early age, because of the person doesnt listen, they get punished.
The leaders/parents/priests like to keep order, and control the people. So they force their ideas.

Roughly 50% of Americans dont believe in evolution.
Roughly 76% of Americans identify themselves as christian.
Christians are told from an early age, "God made man".
Because they are "brainwashed" (for lack of a better term) to believe what is RIGHT and WRONG, they never read in depth "theories" like Evolution.
Yes, this means many Christians are able to see past their "brainwashing" (again, for lack of a better term), but it also means many are blind, and dont WANT to see past it.

See how it all fits together? Most people who dont believe in evolution, are Christians. Anyone else is well.... an idiot. (Not in the insulting way. I mean "uneducated". And not in a bad way)
Because the large majority of people were told from childhood, "God is always right, never question him, he made the world and everyone on it", they dont believe in evolution.

Im not saying religion is bad. But there is a pretty large correlation between Religion, and the halt of scientific progress.

Please note: I am not saying anyone else has to believe this. This is just my belief. This is MY take on the situation and reason behind evolution being such a misinterpreted subject. If i offended you, sorry. It was not my intention.

So your belief is that Evolution is obviously the "intelligent" side.

Interesting, though I know numerous intelligent Christians that are far more capable than either of us and they wholeheartedly explain, and defend Creationism.

No, evolution isnt so much the "intelligent" side, as it is the "knowledgeable" side.
((I know people who you would call "intelligent", but they cant even change a flat tire))

And personally, i believe in creationism. But the thing is, Evolution is a fact. Why do you think the common cold is such a problem? Because its constantly evolving. Its always changing its form c. We can never cure it, because of its rapid evolution.

Or the experiment of increasing the lifespan of a fly. http://livelonger.hubpages.com/hub/Longevity_and_Genetics

Evolution is one of the few things we can actively PROVE. xD

 

[Speakercone]

I am a Catholic, but I still know that evolution exists, and I agree that it is appalling that most people don't don't know about it. However, I do not think everyone should be forced to believe in evolution, if people don't want to, why make them? Intelligent design is still a possible theory, as is the theory of evolution, I think God guided evolution but, I'm not going to go around and try and make people teach this in schools everywhere.

Just a nitpick: It is the Hypothesis of Intelligent design. It is not yet accepted as a theory and honestly probably never will be, its just that it is impossible to test it using the scientific method.

I agree that people should not be forced to believe in evolution, however I believe that it should still be in the classroom like most theories are and I do not believe that the hypothesis of Intelligent design should be taught as a counter to Evolution because we have no successfully tested or peer reviewed alternative to Evolution.

Just because a majority of the world believes in it does not mean it gets to circumvent the entire scientific method and go straight to theory.[footnote]venting some frustration I have on this general topic. Vitriol not aimed at anyone in particular[/footnote]

Further nitpick on your nitpick: if it can't be tested or observed, it isn't even a hypothesis. Maybe 'assertion' or 'idea' is closer to the mark. I usually prefer 'thinly veiled religious extremism' to describe ID.

 

[cdstephens]

Let me wrap this whole thing up in burritos. (thats right, im gunna wrap it like a burrito, with burritos.)

Sheep are Stupid.
Sheep are part of a flock. ((Unless theyre black sheep. Then its a Murder of Sheep))
The sheep will listen to whatever the dogs bark loudest. This is learned from an early age, because of the sheep doesnt listen, they get bit.
The dogs like to keep order, and control the flock ((or murder)) of sheep. So they bark loudly.

Now if you didnt get that analogy, let me explain it.

People are stupid.
People are part of religions. ((Unless theyre black sheep. Then its Atheism))
The people will listen to whatever their leaders/parents/priests ideas are. This is learned from an early age, because of the person doesnt listen, they get punished.
The leaders/parents/priests like to keep order, and control the people. So they force their ideas.

Roughly 50% of Americans dont believe in evolution.
Roughly 76% of Americans identify themselves as christian.
Christians are told from an early age, "God made man".
Because they are "brainwashed" (for lack of a better term) to believe what is RIGHT and WRONG, they never read in depth "theories" like Evolution.
Yes, this means many Christians are able to see past their "brainwashing" (again, for lack of a better term), but it also means many are blind, and dont WANT to see past it.

See how it all fits together? Most people who dont believe in evolution, are Christians. Anyone else is well.... an idiot. (Not in the insulting way. I mean "uneducated". And not in a bad way)
Because the large majority of people were told from childhood, "God is always right, never question him, he made the world and everyone on it", they dont believe in evolution.

Im not saying religion is bad. But there is a pretty large correlation between Religion, and the halt of scientific progress.

Please note: I am not saying anyone else has to believe this. This is just my belief. This is MY take on the situation and reason behind evolution being such a misinterpreted subject. If i offended you, sorry. It was not my intention.

So your belief is that Evolution is obviously the "intelligent" side.

Interesting, though I know numerous intelligent Christians that are far more capable than either of us and they wholeheartedly explain, and defend Creationism.

No, evolution isnt so much the "intelligent" side, as it is the "knowledgeable" side.
((I know people who you would call "intelligent", but they cant even change a flat tire))

And personally, i believe in creationism. But the thing is, Evolution is a fact. Why do you think the common cold is such a problem? Because its constantly evolving. Its always changing its form c. We can never cure it, because of its rapid evolution.

Or the experiment of increasing the lifespan of a fly. http://livelonger.hubpages.com/hub/Longevity_and_Genetics

Evolution is one of the few things we can actively PROVE. xD

So do you think that God created the entire universe within a matter of days, including all life, or do you hold a more intelligent design belief with God creating the universe but evolution doing most of the "work"?

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

Not when one idea stands clearly over the others. It is in the halls of academia that hypothesis and evidence are debated, and not in the schoolroom. There is little time given to the teaching of Science as it is. The "teach the controversy" argument is an appeal to peoples' sense of democracy and fair play, but it doesn't really apply here. The same argument could be made for the teaching of Phrenology as science, or Geocentricism.

That's why you teach evolution in the science classroom and creationism in the RS classroom. Creationism isn't a science and evolution isn't a belief; theory =! belief, some people seem adamant that the opposite is true. Both ideas should be taught because they're both key ideas in their respective fields and the idea that one should not be taught over the other is rather foolish, regardless of the validity of either.

OT: I think, like most poor interpretations, it stems from a lack of interest in the subject. I don't really see how it's difficult to understand evolution the two basic principles are that those suited to survive do so and those not suited either die or change, which aren't particularly confusing.

However, with either a lack of interest or an interest in a conflicting view, it's clear that people will simply refuse to take in the knowledge.