The moral behind Skyrim's two factions

[Substitute Troll]

Yes, ANOTHER SKYRIM THREAD. Get over it, or join in. It's an awesome game, it deserves to be discussed. You like games without substance? Then fuck off.

Anyway, I was listening to the Sovngarde Song by Gavin Dunn. And just from reading the lyrics you could tell he played Stormcloak and that the song was from their angle. Now, don't get me wrong, the song itself is fucking awesome. I mean, it's almost as inspiring as Age of the Dragon, but I'm on the side of the Legion. This makes me love the song for it's epicness and power, but hate it for being supportive to fictional racists who don't see the big picture(and Ulfric is just a power-hungry idiot). I will still listen to it for a long time to come, but I can't help but be a little mad somewhere in the back of my head...

The point of this thread, was to see WHY you support the faction you've chosen. It's not a "are you legion or stormcloak" thread. It's a thread about the moral grey area that these both inhabit. From trailers I always thought they would make the war really black and white, but they did pull something amazing off with it. There really is no right answer.

Discuss your morals.

 

[Jandau]

Well, from similar such threads, most Stormcloak supporters go with the "Imperials tried to kill me" argument, which would imply you should join the Nazis in WW2 if you get nearly executed by the USA over a misunderstanding and later pardoned. (EDIT: Since apparently a lot of people are taking objection to this part, I suggest you look up what hyperbole is, you might learn something). Beyond that, all Stormcloaks have is whining about the White-Gold Concordat, which the Empire was forced into. The Imperials don't like the Concordat and are only biding their time until they can do something about it (as much is basically spelled out for you by Tullius). But no, Ulfric wants to weaken the humans even more by fracturing their unity, which would simply be justification the Thalmor need to invade Skyrim (now weakened by civil war) and/or the Empire ("blaming" them for not stopping the Stormcloaks). In fact W-GC was designed to fracture the human nations and make them easy pickings, and Ulfric is an unwitting pawn of the Thalmor (as is evidenced by a journal you recover during Diplomatic Immunity). Honestly, there is no justification for joining the Stormcloaks other than "My character is a racist and/or moron"...

 

[Fappy]

I hate both factions and only join either one if the character I am role playing would. Honestly though, if I were some kind of epic hero in the Elder Scrolls world I wouldn't pick a side. I'd probably assassinate Ulfric and then systematically take down every Thalmor embassy/stronghold/etc. in the province. I'd put the fear of Talos in them and care little for the weak-willed Imperials.

 

[nokori3byo]

I've said as much in other threads, but the Imperials just turned out to be the lesser of two evils. If your primary concern is consolidating power to resist a foreign aggressor, you should side with the stronger, less sectarian power. To me, the great evil Ulfric represented was not racist nationalism, but entropy.

 

[Ordinaryundone]

Stormcloaks: Nationalism, anger against foreign rule, fighting against the incompetence of the current ruling administration. If you support the Stormcloaks, you are basically saying "The Thalmor suck, the Empire is weak, Skyrim should be ruled by it's people and no one else".

Imperial: Law, Order, Solidarity. Supporters of the Empire believe the best way to face the dragon menace (and the Thalmor) is to hold to the tradition and strength of the Empire. Anyone who tries to break away is just weakening the whole for everyone.

Neither side is really wrong, and both have their downsides. The Stormcloaks are a bit too keen on the "Skyrim for the Nords" thing, and the Empire in it's current state is weak and too willing to acquiesce to the Thalmor, which is what got them into this situation in the first place.

 

[VeneratedWulfen93]

I havn't invested in the civil war on Skyrim yet but when I do I'm going for the Imperials. Ulfric shattered the peace and draws more fanatical followers to his rebellion which only perpetuates the violence and makes humans divided when they should fight against their common enemy: The Elves.

Specificaly the Aldmeri Dominion. When the end comes to the civil war I want the victor to be the one with the most chance of defeating the elves which is undoubtebly the Empire. At least they were able to force a ceasefire through a last ditch militairy gamble that won the thing the Stormcloaks are so desperate to be rid of: Peace.

 

[Substitute Troll]

Also, as Jandau pointed out, Ulfric isn't exaactly "clean" himself -.-

 

[Domehammer]

For my first character I joined empire cause it was damn stormcloaks fault I nearly was executed. Haven't yet decided on making a stormcloak character yet as every character I make so far has sided with empire.

 

[DustyDrB]

It seems like they just included that "kill him anyway" line just to try to balance the two factions in players' eyes. I saw through that tactic and backed the Empire anyway.

Unfortunately, the civil war quest line was the dullest in the game. And why are these grunt soldiers still talking down to me on the road when I'm the Imperial Legate who was instrumental in silencing the rebellion? What good is choice without and effect?

 

[Jandau]

Well, from similar such threads, most Stormcloak supporters go with the "Imperials tried to kill me" argument, which would imply you should join the Nazis in WW2 if you get nearly executed by the USA over a misunderstanding and later pardoned.

This isn't a "misunderstanding and later pardoned", this is, they captured me, realised that I wasn't a Sotrmcloak, but decied "Nah, we'll kill him anyway for teh lulz".

No, it was "We did a raid on a bunch of Stormcloaks and this guy was there. Do we risk him being a Stormcloak or do we play it safe?". I'm not saying that it's noble of them, but using that failed execution as justification to join a faction that supports racism and threatens to send mankind down a disastrous route just for the sake of one man's pride, and that one man is being manipulated by the enemies of mankind - that just seems stupid and shortsighted to me...

 

[Confidingtripod]

I was leaning to stormcloak out of sense of freedom for people, civil rights and the idea that Ulfric was actually the rightfull king, as I ventured though see'ing what his idea of a perfect city was (full of racism and injustice against non-nords) I decided to go neutral, then slowly went empire after finding out his claim was false and

Spoiler

He is a puppet of the talmor

I quickly realised that the empire was more justifyable, and stronger in the case another war broke out.

 

[Outcast107]

The reason I join stormcloaks is because the Empire is looking out for itself. You may say "they are just buying time." Though who the hell is going to join back up with them? Who going to support them anyways? Just Skyrim,High Rock and Cyrodiil itself?

If the Thalmor just went to the Empire and say "Give us Skyrim" do you really think the Empire is going to fight back? Probably not and they would just give it to buy more time. Just like they did with Hammerfell. Another reason is I highly doubt the Empire can win the 2nd round of the war. They already lost have of its provinces already and seem to be losing more of its power to the Thalmor and the rebellion going on.

Plus I look at the big picture. Thalmor already have spies in Skyrim, what to say they don't have spies roaming around in Cyrodiil as well? Kindof hard to do a surprise attack when you have enemy within your home.

Finally, with the Thalmor and Empire kick out of Skyrim. Then Skyrim will be a major player in the Thalmor eyes and will have to focus on it. Leaving itself open for the rebelling going on back at its home, as well as Empire and perhaps Hammerfell attacking it as well. The Thalmor will have to thin its forces way to far out to keep its hold on people.

No offense to the Empire, but to me its a sinking ship that trying to stay afloat. One more thing before I end this post, I read a book called "The Talos Mistake." It's about how Empire made a huge mistake in giving Talos godhood and giving him more importance over the others. Saying even after the war, they will not let Talos back into the Nine and just keep it at the Eight.

 

[BathorysGraveland]

Well, I am role-playing my character and while I haven't joined a side yet, I'm going to go with the Stormcloaks.

He is a Redguard and he was young when the Empire turned their backs on Hammerfell, but he was old enough to know what was going on. His father and many others then perished in the following battles, not in vein - the Thalmor were beaten and forced to flee - however, if the Empire didn't sign the White-Gold Concordat and continued the fight alongside Hammerfell, less would have been killed in the fights and his father may have been one of the survivors, so he holds the Empire partly responsible for that and for simply abandoning Hammerfell to the mercy of the Thalmor in the first place.

Second, with his fathers death and his mothers soon after, all he had in Hammerfell was his sister. After about 2 years before Skyrim's starting date, his sister was raped and murdered by a drunk Imperial. After taking care of him, he left Hammerfell as he had nothing left there but bad memories and experiences. He fled to Chorrol for awhile, then to Bruma. He lived there for a couple of years, but was promptly forced to flee again when he got into a bar fight with an Imperial - what he didn't know, was said Imperial was a senior, high-importance person in the council. So, he fled North into Skyrim, where he was caught in an ambush between the Imperials and the Stormcloaks.

They took him to Helgen and was about to butcher him for no real reason, wouldn't even give him a trial. This was kind of the last straw really for the Empire with him.

Also, the Stormcloaks remind him of his people after the Empire's abandonment, fighting against overwhelming odds but never surrendering or giving up. Fighting for their people and their land to drive the tyrants out. Hammerfell did it, there is no reason why Skyrim can't do the same. With a Redguard helping them drive to victory, a strong alliance between Hammerfell and Skyrim may follow, and that would be the strongest possible outcome in my (his) mind.

So that is basically it in a nutshell, really. After I'm done with this character, I'll role-play a staunch Empire supporter.

 

[dmase]

I realize the storm cloaks are the little guys in this battle but with all the background story I feel more sympathetic to the empire. The empire is a big reason skyrim and all the other provinces prosper the way they do and the empire is in a kind of withdraw thanks to the aldmeri dominion. So the only way to keep the empire strong is to keep all the provinces together and united so the empire can recover and eventually completely rebuff the dominion.

Of course I feel like that thinking is about as xenophobic as the Storm cloak's. The empire was basically founded on the bodies of the mer.

 

[fdbluth]

I sided with the Stormcloaks, because I knew absolutely nothing about Cyrodiil and the world of The Elder Scrolls game, meaning my first impression of the Empire was a bunch of fascist assholes who tried to kill me for treason, despite the fact I wasn't. As I learned more though, especially about the White-Gold Concordat, I began to realize it wasn't as clear-cut as I thought it to be.

So my point is, maybe people are more likely to choose Stormcloak if Skyrim was their first Elder Scrolls game, because they don't have a history or the context to see the Empire for what it is.

 

[Amarok]

As someone who is soon to get into the game, I have something to ask that is semi-related.

Does the decision to join Empire or Stormcloak rest only on who you follow during the first dragon attack, or can you take your time about side-picking after this?

Edit: Furthermore, can you change your mind if you discover a new piece of lore that makes you think differently about your "side"?

 

[skywolfblue]

As someone who is soon to get into the game, I have something to ask that is semi-related.

Does the decision to join Empire or Stormcloak rest only on who you follow during the first dragon attack, or can you take your time about side-picking after this?

Edit: Furthermore, can you change your mind if you discover a new piece of lore that makes you think differently about your "side"?

The first mission doesn't count.

Your decision on who to join comes well after. You have to go to Windhelm or Solitude and say "I want to join up!". After you complete a preliminary quest for that side, you cannot reverse your choice. (or so I believe)

 

[spartan231490]

I support the stormcloaks because for all their flaws they did nothing wrong. Every people should be allowed their own culture. And Ulfric killed the high-king in a dual, a dual which was allowed under the Nord's culture. Also, the imperials tried to have me executed for crossing the border with absolutely no debate or hesitation at all. So fuck them.