The next Xbox: Always online, no second-hand games, 50GB Blu-ray discs and new Kinect
- Thread starter Epona
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Not going to happen. It wasnt so long ago people said the same thing about the PS4. When consoles go digital download only, then this stuff will happen. Just like steam. But with games still on discs then they wont do this. Also, people say "well they do this stuff for PC" but my comment is that PC's are meant to be always online. Also Steam sells games for cheap, recently i picked up Deus Ex - Human Revolution for £3.50.....thats cheaper than a rental. At that price who cares about 2nd hand games.
I can confirm from personal experience (both of internet dropouts, and travelling with a laptop where there usually wasn't internet access) that steam 'offline' mode is a royal pain in the ass.Crono1973 said:
There are several reasons for this. Firstly, I've had times when steam just outright refuses to start up in offline mode. (you select it, nothing happens for 5 minutes, then it says it "can't connect", even though you selected 'offline' mode)
Second, games, regardless of theoretical support for offline mode can arbitrarily decide to not work offline without an update first. (which requires an internet connection obviously.)
That wouldn't be so bad as such, but steam gives absolutely no indication short of actually trying it, whether a game will run in offline mode at any given moment or not.
This means when I go travelling with my laptop, if I want to have any chance of my games working, I have to test each and every one individually, as close as possible to leaving.
Once I've left, I can't go online and fix problems with offline mode.
And if I do the check too far in advance, things might not work anymore by the time I have no connection.
Also games seem to be able to stop working in offline mode for no apparent reason in fairly short spaces of time.
(what worked perfectly fine offline one day can fail to start the next. In some badly timed cases, something which worked offline 5 minutes ago can suddenly decide it won't start anymore...)
All in all, steam offline mode is pot luck as to which games will work (if any), and you get no real warning or indication of which games will or won't work, or for how long any given game will work offline...
Not what I'd call a particularly useful feature unless you don't actually need it to work. (eg. You use it just for the hell of it, rather than because you haven't got access to the internet for some reason.)
Steam does matter to this discussion because that is what Microsoft is emulating. What doesn't matter is your opinion of physical games that require Steam. I agree with you that it sucks that a physical copy of a game is tied to Steam but our opinions don't have any value in the discussion, just the fact that Steam does this and so will Microsoft.sanquin said:
Don't follow your logic here:SonOfVoorhees said:
1) People said that about the PS4 for good reason, because Sony has a patent to block used games. We have yet to see if they will use that patent.
2) You say it won't happen on consoles until they go digital only, just like Steam. Steam isn't digital only, physical copies are available.
3) My 360 (when I had one) and my PS3 are always online just like my PC. There is no hardware distinction here. Also, my 3DS is always online too.
It will be interesting to see what happens, assuming Sony doesn't shoot themselves in the foot at the starting line again with shortages and poor arcetecture for developers, they might very well wind up owning the X-box this round. With less and less "system exclusives" users are probably going to go with the least limited platform. If Microsoft forces you online, but continues to charge you $$$ for a membership to actually use multiplayer, and Sony allows you to play offline if you want, and provides free Multiplayer (even if they have a premium service), I think Sony is going to win.
Also, when it comes to the used game market, that's going to be interesting. Unless the entire manufacturing industry takes the same road, whomever's system allows pre-owned games is probably going to dominate. The Publishers being the ones who mostly benefit from cutting out used games, BUT they are also themselves a slave to the market. If say Microsoft introduces draconian security, and Sony doesn't, publishers might wind up preferring Microsoft's console, but users will probably buy many times more Playstations than X-boxes, which will ultimatly mean there is more money to be made enduring a second hand market than dealing exclusively with the system that provides better security.
It will be interesting to see how it all plays out, right now it's mostly rumors and speculation. I own both a PS-3 and a 360 right now, truthfully though I'm beginning to suspect that it's not going to be worth it to have more than one game box in this upcoming generation due to everything going cross platform. It will all come down to what system allows me to do the most, and of course which is going to have a stronger committment to releasing quality RPGs and JRPGs which I feel have been lacking in the current gen, compared to the heights they reached as a genere with the PS-2.
Also, when it comes to the used game market, that's going to be interesting. Unless the entire manufacturing industry takes the same road, whomever's system allows pre-owned games is probably going to dominate. The Publishers being the ones who mostly benefit from cutting out used games, BUT they are also themselves a slave to the market. If say Microsoft introduces draconian security, and Sony doesn't, publishers might wind up preferring Microsoft's console, but users will probably buy many times more Playstations than X-boxes, which will ultimatly mean there is more money to be made enduring a second hand market than dealing exclusively with the system that provides better security.
It will be interesting to see how it all plays out, right now it's mostly rumors and speculation. I own both a PS-3 and a 360 right now, truthfully though I'm beginning to suspect that it's not going to be worth it to have more than one game box in this upcoming generation due to everything going cross platform. It will all come down to what system allows me to do the most, and of course which is going to have a stronger committment to releasing quality RPGs and JRPGs which I feel have been lacking in the current gen, compared to the heights they reached as a genere with the PS-2.
You do realize when you "buy" a physical game, you don't actually own it, right? You're paying for a non-transferable licence that can be revoked at any time. If you sell or lend the disc, you're violating the EULA. Whether this is legally enforceable or not, the courts haven't decided.sanquin said:
Edit: In the US anyway, it's legal in the EU. US 9th circuit court has ruled that EULAs are legally binding though, so selling/lending/trading is illegal according to them. If it goes to the Supreme Court, I think it's likely they'd rule the same way.
The biggest gaming piss off in recent memory was Diablo 3's needless forced online.. only way id get this is if friends get it and it turns into the gaming with friends console like 360
Maybe not this generation, but in one hundred years I expect consoles to be twice as powerful, 10,000 times larger, and so expensive that only the 5 richest kings of Europe will be able to afford one.Genocidicles said:
Well, I already knew that the US was a stupid country anyway... An EULA can't revoke your fundamental right to sell a physical game again in my country. And as far as I know it can't in the US either. It's why devs put in all kinds of counter measures. Because they can't just put 'you can't resell the game' into the EULA and make it legally binding.bananafishtoday said:
No, that's a load of bullshit peddled by people who just love to find reasons to hate Steam.Crono1973 said:
Truth is, you don't need to "go online" to go into offline mode. As long as the build versions of your games coincide with your version of the Steam platform, you can boot into offline mode forever. As in, as long as Steam has the appropriate account info stored locally, you're golden. Steam won't need to "check in"; no idea where you're getting your info on that.
Case in point, a friend of mine has had his laptop disconnected from the net for almost two years now. Yet, in that time, he's never had trouble booting up Steam in offline mode and playing any or every game he has installed.
Seriously, at this point a vast majority of the complaints we still hear regarding Steams offline mode are from people who either don't know what they're doing, haven't tried it in some time, or are just complaining for the sake of complaining.
Is the offline mode flawless? Hell no. Of course not. I still have the occasional issue with it. However, probably 90% of the times I do have trouble, it's usually because of something I did or because Steam was unable to fully update it's cache files.
[edit]
As for used games: Yes, you're right. There are not "used games" on Steam.
Yet.
There are changes in the pipe that could allow people to trade-in or sell titles from their accounts; with limitations, of course.
Valve hasn't discussed anything solid yet, but they have said they are addressing the topic.
The most recent ruling was that in the US, a EULA is legally binding. According to them, we don't own the games; we are granted the privilege of using them. It hasn't gone to the Supreme Court yet, but I have a feeling they'd see it the same way... this generation's Court has been very, very pro-capitalist. If it's individual liberties vs. corporations, government vs. corporations, whatever, they almost always favor the corporations.sanquin said:
And, hilariously, a lot of the dev countermeasures aren't put in because they're hard to bypass, but because bypassing them is also a crime here.