The number of the beast?

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cleverlymadeup

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Uglycat said:
You're wrong, she's right. Christianity's golden rule has nothing to do with how you are rewarded for your behaviour.

You're confusing karma with the golden rule.
actually no the golden rule and i said is the SAME thing, let me expand on that point

first my statement and the explanation

if you practice virtue you will be rewarded

means if you treat people well they will treat you well and the higher power you believe in will reward you as well

if you practice vice you will be punished

means if you treat ppl like crap they will treat you like crap and the higher power you belive in will punish you as well

now onto the golden rule

do unto others as you'd have done unto you

means if you act and treat ppl well (virtue), they will treat you well (reward) and the higher power you believe in will treat you well (reward)

if you act like a dick and treat ppl bad (vice), they will treat you bad (punishment) and the higher power you believe in will punish you

so i was right and she didn't know what her own golden rule actually meant as you don't either


oh and karma and the golden rule are the same thing, just different names :)
 

Burld

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cleverlymadeup said:
oh and karma and the golden rule are the same thing, just different names :)
Not really. Although its exact definition varies between religions, it really isn't the same as the Golden Rule. Karma is much more of a universal law and has nothing to do with God. According to the Buddha, it follows you around, even between lives. It also isn't just about how you treat others, but the other things you do; for example, going on pilgrimage can give you karma. And whereas if you do something bad in other religions, you are most definitely punished, bad karma can be converted into good.
If I had a religion, it would probably be Buddhism. Some good philosophy there.
 

cleverlymadeup

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Burld said:
Not really. Although its exact definition varies between religions, it really isn't the same as the Golden Rule. Karma is much more of a universal law and has nothing to do with God. According to the Buddha, it follows you around, even between lives. It also isn't just about how you treat others, but the other things you do; for example, going on pilgrimage can give you karma. And whereas if you do something bad in other religions, you are most definitely punished, bad karma can be converted into good.
If I had a religion, it would probably be Buddhism. Some good philosophy there.
actually it is the same thing, just different names and yes all religions carry that message. it's just written a bit differently

i've done a lot of reading on buddhism, funnily enough a lot of the buddhist beliefs are found in christianity

and yes you ARE punished in other religions for doing bad things, you must atone for your sins, in buddhism that is being reincarnated as things such as a dog or a snake

for christians it's hell
for jews it's the void
for islam it's hell

all religions have a way for your to be forgiven for your sins as well
 

Anarchemitis

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The_root_of_all_evil said:
Anarchemitis said:
Rick Roll [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0]... 23...

It's not quite so effective when you actually label it. Fnord.
If I don' label it then I might Rick Roll Joe. And no one wants that.
 

Burld

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cleverlymadeup said:
and yes you ARE punished in other religions for doing bad things, you must atone for your sins, in buddhism that is being reincarnated as things such as a dog or a snake
In Hinduism this is believed to be a punishment. But in Buddhism, it is not always thought that there is 'good' karma or 'bad' karma, but that karma is just the law of cause and effect. Whatever your karma is, it has the potential to be positive; it depends on how you spend your life. There is no 'hell' or other realm in which you are punished.
Karma is not the golden rule, partly because the golden rule mentions nothing about consequences; they are entirely different concepts. However, you are correct in saying that all religions (or just all the 'major' ones) carry the golden rule.
 

Conqueror Kenny

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Anarchemitis said:
The_root_of_all_evil said:
Anarchemitis said:
Rick Roll [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0]... 23...

It's not quite so effective when you actually label it. Fnord.
If I don' label it then I might Rick Roll Joe. And no one wants that.
Or do they: hey joe look at this unrelated youtube vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
 

cleverlymadeup

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Burld said:
Karma is not the golden rule, partly because the golden rule mentions nothing about consequences; they are entirely different concepts. However, you are correct in saying that all religions (or just all the 'major' ones) carry the golden rule.
actually it's does mention punishment

do unto others as you'd have done unto you (think about the words and what they mean)

i can write it like this

treat people well if you want to be treated well, treat people badly if you want to be treated badly

yes buddhism does believe in bad karma and punishment, shih-tzu dogs were once considered to be buddhist monks who had committed bad deeds in a previous life. you can't have good without bad, yin and yang
 

Burld

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cleverlymadeup said:
yes buddhism does believe in bad karma and punishment, shih-tzu dogs were once considered to be buddhist monks who had committed bad deeds in a previous life. you can't have good without bad, yin and yang
That's Taoism.
I think punishment is really the wrong word for it.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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Burld said:
Don't know if you've actually seen it, but that episode of the West Wing is excellent.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xWqgD7lGneU
Bartlet is so badass.
Now if the Americans can get a President like that, you'd solve all the anger against you. :)

We just need more Jim Hacker and less Gordon Brown.
 

Uglycat

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cleverlymadeup said:
now onto the golden rule
do unto others as you'd have done unto you
means if you act and treat ppl well (virtue), they will treat you well (reward) and the higher power you believe in will treat you well (reward)
if you act like a dick and treat ppl bad (vice), they will treat you bad (punishment) and the higher power you believe in will punish you
so i was right and she didn't know what her own golden rule actually meant as you don't either
oh and karma and the golden rule are the same thing, just different names :)
Sorry that's patently untrue. Firstly, Christianity never expects people to treat you fairly - in fact, there are plenty of statements which tell you that you will, in fact, be treated unfairly. The first 300 years of Christian history bear this out. Yet regardless of how you are to be treated, you are to treat people well- in other words, your expectation of how you will be treated is not dependant on how you treat people. Hence why in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus says you are to do good to people who treat you badly, because that is what God the Father is like, (causing rain to fall on the good and bad). GtF doesn't cause rain to fall on people in expectation of them doing nice things in return, he does nice things because that is who he is. Subsequently, as a Christian, you do good things to people not because you expect anything, but because you wish to be like God.


You are still confusing the golden rule (which states: treat others how you wish to be treated), with karmic suppositions (if you do good, good will come to you, if you do bad, bad will come to you). As I've said above, there is no expectation in Christianity that people will treat you well if you treat them well, quite the opposite. You can't add karmic notions to the golden rule, as there is no support for it in Christianity.
There *is* a covenental agreement in Jewish history that could support a notion of karma, but Christianity doesn't have that 'cause and effect' that Hebraic history demonstrates. The rest of Christianity may include karmic overtones, but the golden rule has nothing to do with it :)

If nothing else, the whole point about grace nixes karma :) You get what you *don't* deserve.
 

Juzari

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karma isn't really about the "cause" but more the why, the intention behind the action, if you have a good intention = good karma, so you shouldn't expect that good thing will happen to you find you do good things, because then you are thinking about yourself and not the wellbeing of others
 

Erana

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All I know is that "444" is the number of the stapler. Take a look on someone's desk next time you're in the office. An alarming amount of those things have the number on them.
 

cleverlymadeup

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Uglycat said:
You are still confusing the golden rule (which states: treat others how you wish to be treated), with karmic suppositions (if you do good, good will come to you, if you do bad, bad will come to you). As I've said above, there is no expectation in Christianity that people will treat you well if you treat them well, quite the opposite. You can't add karmic notions to the golden rule, as there is no support for it in Christianity.
There *is* a covenental agreement in Jewish history that could support a notion of karma, but Christianity doesn't have that 'cause and effect' that Hebraic history demonstrates. The rest of Christianity may include karmic overtones, but the golden rule has nothing to do with it :)

If nothing else, the whole point about grace nixes karma :) You get what you *don't* deserve.
oh no i'm not confusing them in the least, you just don't understand what the words mean, i just happen to notice the subtle links between the various religions and how one will call certain things one thing and another something else

yes christianity does say turn the other cheek but so does toaism and buddhism, they just say it differently.

ok look at this these two statements

i borrowed a vidi
i rented a movie

they are the same thing, one is in british slang, the other is north american they are said different but mean the same thing, this also applies to the golden rule and karma
 

Ultrajoe

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Apr 24, 2008
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sirdanrhodes said:
All religions a crock mate, and please don't say you spent your free time looking this up, I F**KING hate religion, unproven and causes wars between different denominations.(Yes I am acting like I have just took my R.S. test, I have 3 hours ago)
excuse for war, not the cause, historically speaking.
 

Burld

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Feb 9, 2008
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I cannot believe I forgot to mention some of the points made in the first two posts on this page. nice one you two (I realise there's no way to type that without sounding patronising but I genuinely mean it).
 
Feb 13, 2008
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You do know that all barcodes have two small lines at the beginning, middle and end.

And that if your barcode has a 6, it almost always appears as two thin lines...
 

Red Rum

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Feb 25, 2008
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First off, if you add the numbers 1 through 36 together, you get 666.

Second, if you've seen "The Omen" you would know that 666 is in reference to a mark on the neck of the anti-christ that happens to look like 666. And there is the possibility that if the mark is supposed to be a number, it's would actually be 999 instead of 666.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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Red Rum said:
And there is the possibility that if the mark is supposed to be a number, it's would actually be 999 instead of 666.
So the British Emergeny Services are controlled by Satan? It all makes sense!!!!11111!!!!

But where is the Milkman?