The old belt (Parents using violence to correct you)

[SillyBear]

Its quick, its effective and it works.
Not hitting your kids just turns them into spoiled little cunts who think they are invincible.
If you love your kids, beat them.

Evidence suggest the opposite, Mr Hobo Steve. Here are some reasons pulled off the internet:

"The practice of hitting children teaches them to become hitters themselves. Research has shown that violent behaviour in the teenage and adult years is strongly related to physical punishment during the childhood years.

Punishment gives the message that "might makes right", that it is okay to hurt someone smaller and less powerful. The punished child then feels it is appropriate to mistreat younger or smaller children. As adults, they feel little compassion for those less fortunate or less powerful than they are.

Children learn best through parental modelling. Hitting a child gives the message that hitting is an appropriate way to express one's feelings and to solve problems.

Hitting a child greatly interferes with the bond between the adult and the child, as no human being feels loving toward someone who deliberately hurts them. Physical punishment, even when it appears to work, can produce only superficially "good" behaviour based on fear.

Spanking can be physically damaging. Blows to the lower end of the spinal column send shock waves the length of the column, and may result in bleeding in the brain. Lower back pain among today's adults may have its origin in early physical punishment."

There are thousands more. Bottom line is, unless you have extensive history and knowledge in hand to hand combat, you shouldn't be fucking laying a finger on anyone in any situation outside of self defense. You have no idea about what kind of damage you can inflict.

I love the way that people manage to convince themselves that it is okay to hit someone who is not even half your size and is incredibly fragile - both emotionally and physically. Yeah, out of all the people we could be hitting - let's hit them the most!

Grow up and find a better way to handle your problems.

An expression I like that applies here is "people who say you shouldn't hit your kids, don't have kids."

That is a load of nonsense. I know many parents who have never laid a finger in anger on their children. The rest of your post boils down to "Children are annoying so let's give into our anger and hit them", so I don't see much point addressing it.

 

[bombadilillo]

Physical violence is bad parenting, plain and simple. It indicates that you have already lost power in the relationship. A good parent will be able to use subtler and ultimately more effective methods to influence their child's behavior.

Plus, as punishment, lecturing is more effective anyway. I know I would have found a swat or two a lot less of a punishment than a full half-hour lecture

I'm calling bullshit on that first part. I'm going to use my little brother as my main example here: Today My mother told him to pick up the emtey soda cans in his room. The two of them argued about it for close to 15 munites to get him to do it and he still acted like a little shit the whole time. Had my dad told he to do that. there would be little to no talk about it. It would get done almost right away.
You want to know something else? My dad spanked me and my little brother when we were little. My mother didn't even knew about it until I was almost a teanager.

I know that could sound horrible to some people so I would also like to point out that neather me or my brother were ever scared of our father and never will be.
The point i'm trying to make is that, Atleast in my case, the pairent that used spanking when apropreate is more effective then a pairent then the one who only uses words.

Although it is not as easy to convince your kid to do what they need to do, it is completely possible. I've worked with children as part of several jobs, and in no case have I been unable to get positive behavior with non-violent methods. Corporal punishment is more the "lazy man's way out" or the "inarticulate man's way out" of actual discipline.

You also appear to be confusing short-term outcomes with long-term outcomes. Research (see my above post) shows that in the long run corporal punishment ends with worse behavioral and emotional outcomes.

Children act differently to their parents and other adults. In fact a lot of times they act better to others then their parents. I really think you need to have your own chilren to even begin to debate this.

 

[Chaos Inverse]

If more people spanked there kids(not excessivly) I doubt we would have so many problems. But that is not to say that's the only thing, Love your kids, spend time with them, but when they get out of line, discipline it needed.

PS: I do not believe in that "Time out" crap -_- that's just so stupid.

 

[T8B95]

To get your answer, just look at the state of kids today. I'm a very bad person to ask about this right now, as a little five-year-old bastard ran screaming into my job interview today and almost certainly fucked it seven ways from Sunday.

My parents hit me when I stepped out of line, and you know what? I'm fucking glad that they did. I'm a big enough man to admit that I deserved better than half of what I got, and it taught me to respect their authority.

 

[aba1]

There's a difference between violence and discipline. When children are young and want to be defiant you need to show them who's in charge and the only method their growing minds can understand is force. I'm all for whippings, my mother didn't use a belt though; she used a plastic paint stirrer.

this you can discipline a child without actually hurting him or her you just want to scare them to show authority

 

[Kahunaburger]

Physical violence is bad parenting, plain and simple. It indicates that you have already lost power in the relationship. A good parent will be able to use subtler and ultimately more effective methods to influence their child's behavior.

Plus, as punishment, lecturing is more effective anyway. I know I would have found a swat or two a lot less of a punishment than a full half-hour lecture

I'm calling bullshit on that first part. I'm going to use my little brother as my main example here: Today My mother told him to pick up the emtey soda cans in his room. The two of them argued about it for close to 15 munites to get him to do it and he still acted like a little shit the whole time. Had my dad told he to do that. there would be little to no talk about it. It would get done almost right away.
You want to know something else? My dad spanked me and my little brother when we were little. My mother didn't even knew about it until I was almost a teanager.

I know that could sound horrible to some people so I would also like to point out that neather me or my brother were ever scared of our father and never will be.
The point i'm trying to make is that, Atleast in my case, the pairent that used spanking when apropreate is more effective then a pairent then the one who only uses words.

Although it is not as easy to convince your kid to do what they need to do, it is completely possible. I've worked with children as part of several jobs, and in no case have I been unable to get positive behavior with non-violent methods. Corporal punishment is more the "lazy man's way out" or the "inarticulate man's way out" of actual discipline.

You also appear to be confusing short-term outcomes with long-term outcomes. Research (see my above post) shows that in the long run corporal punishment ends with worse behavioral and emotional outcomes.

Children act differently to their parents and other adults. In fact a lot of times they act better to others then their parents. I really think you need to have your own chilren to even begin to debate this.

I'm not entirely sure what your point is here. You can pretty much get good behavior from any child with sufficiently skillful use of non-violent discipline. I can tell you from personal experience that even when the kid in question has some serious behavioral issues, sitting them down and talking the issue out can be completely successful if you do it right.

 

[Not PvP Flagged]

Beating your child is a terrible thing to do, but I think I back talked my Mom and Dad 1 time, and a swift backhand fixed that. Although it didn't really hurt anything aside from my (9 year old) pride. It scared the hell out of me and I only did it the one time... so yes, soemtimes physical violence is in fact better than just telling a child to stop.

 

[MissGinaKid]

Physical violence is bad parenting, plain and simple. It indicates that you have already lost power in the relationship. A good parent will be able to use subtler and ultimately more effective methods to influence their child's behavior.

Plus, as punishment, lecturing is more effective anyway. I know I would have found a swat or two a lot less of a punishment than a full half-hour lecture

I'm calling bullshit on that first part. I'm going to use my little brother as my main example here: Today My mother told him to pick up the emtey soda cans in his room. The two of them argued about it for close to 15 munites to get him to do it and he still acted like a little shit the whole time. Had my dad told he to do that. there would be little to no talk about it. It would get done almost right away.
You want to know something else? My dad spanked me and my little brother when we were little. My mother didn't even knew about it until I was almost a teanager.

I know that could sound horrible to some people so I would also like to point out that neather me or my brother were ever scared of our father and never will be.
The point i'm trying to make is that, Atleast in my case, the pairent that used spanking when apropreate is more effective then a pairent then the one who only uses words.

Although it is not as easy to convince your kid to do what they need to do, it is completely possible. I've worked with children as part of several jobs, and in no case have I been unable to get positive behavior with non-violent methods. Corporal punishment is more the "lazy man's way out" or the "inarticulate man's way out" of actual discipline.

You also appear to be confusing short-term outcomes with long-term outcomes. Research (see my above post) shows that in the long run corporal punishment ends with worse behavioral and emotional outcomes.

Exactly how long term are we talking here? I'm turning 19 in a few months and I might have called my brother a "little" shit but I'm not implying that he is little at all. He is 17 year old athlete. When are we supoussed to suffer these long term effects from being spanked?

 

[bombadilillo]

Physical violence is bad parenting, plain and simple. It indicates that you have already lost power in the relationship. A good parent will be able to use subtler and ultimately more effective methods to influence their child's behavior.

Plus, as punishment, lecturing is more effective anyway. I know I would have found a swat or two a lot less of a punishment than a full half-hour lecture

I'm calling bullshit on that first part. I'm going to use my little brother as my main example here: Today My mother told him to pick up the emtey soda cans in his room. The two of them argued about it for close to 15 munites to get him to do it and he still acted like a little shit the whole time. Had my dad told he to do that. there would be little to no talk about it. It would get done almost right away.
You want to know something else? My dad spanked me and my little brother when we were little. My mother didn't even knew about it until I was almost a teanager.

I know that could sound horrible to some people so I would also like to point out that neather me or my brother were ever scared of our father and never will be.
The point i'm trying to make is that, Atleast in my case, the pairent that used spanking when apropreate is more effective then a pairent then the one who only uses words.

Some people don't have children, or understand how much a child understand. Yes lecture a year old. It will work great...

Yeah, in my experience it actually does. They feel bad because you're annoyed with them, and a lecture actually helps them understand why their behavior was bad and get better behavior in the future.

You have to realize that a child acts differently to their parent. Did you never disobey your parent after they lectured you? If you say no your lying, every child does. Sometimes you need to take it to the next level, usually when it involves them doing something stupid and dangerous. If I lecture them to not press buttons on the dvd player and see them do it again, when I see them try to touch a hot stove I am going to use a stronger method because I know lecture is only so effective. How can you say 100% its unwarrented? Thats idealistic and shortsited.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Its quick, its effective and it works.
Not hitting your kids just turns them into spoiled little cunts who think they are invincible.
If you love your kids, beat them.

Evidence suggest the opposite, Mr Hobo Steve. Here are some reasons pulled off the internet:

"The practice of hitting children teaches them to become hitters themselves. Research has shown that violent behaviour in the teenage and adult years is strongly related to physical punishment during the childhood years.

Punishment gives the message that "might makes right", that it is okay to hurt someone smaller and less powerful. The punished child then feels it is appropriate to mistreat younger or smaller children. As adults, they feel little compassion for those less fortunate or less powerful than they are.

Children learn best through parental modelling. Hitting a child gives the message that hitting is an appropriate way to express one's feelings and to solve problems.

Hitting a child greatly interferes with the bond between the adult and the child, as no human being feels loving toward someone who deliberately hurts them. Physical punishment, even when it appears to work, can produce only superficially "good" behaviour based on fear.

Spanking can be physically damaging. Blows to the lower end of the spinal column send shock waves the length of the column, and may result in bleeding in the brain. Lower back pain among today's adults may have its origin in early physical punishment."

There are thousands more. Bottom line is, unless you have extensive history and knowledge in hand to hand combat, you shouldn't be fucking laying a finger on anyone in any situation outside of self defense. You have no idea about what kind of damage you can inflict.

I love the way that people manage to convince themselves that it is okay to hit someone who is not even half your size and is incredibly fragile - both emotionally and physically. Yeah, out of all the people we could be hitting - let's hit them the most!

Grow up and find a better way to handle your problems.

Unless you have extensive knowledge or raising children shut the fuck up and and find a better way to think you are an expert at something you are not. I have 4, how bout you? I have trained martial arts so its ok to spank my kid now? Do I have your permission?

The experts agree with SillyBear. http://heldref-publications.metapress.com/app/home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent&backto=issue,1,6;journal,41,85;linkingpublicationresults,1:119938,1

And, if you have trained in martial arts, you of all people should know what a bad idea it is to strike someone you don't intend to injure.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Physical violence is bad parenting, plain and simple. It indicates that you have already lost power in the relationship. A good parent will be able to use subtler and ultimately more effective methods to influence their child's behavior.

Plus, as punishment, lecturing is more effective anyway. I know I would have found a swat or two a lot less of a punishment than a full half-hour lecture

I'm calling bullshit on that first part. I'm going to use my little brother as my main example here: Today My mother told him to pick up the emtey soda cans in his room. The two of them argued about it for close to 15 munites to get him to do it and he still acted like a little shit the whole time. Had my dad told he to do that. there would be little to no talk about it. It would get done almost right away.
You want to know something else? My dad spanked me and my little brother when we were little. My mother didn't even knew about it until I was almost a teanager.

I know that could sound horrible to some people so I would also like to point out that neather me or my brother were ever scared of our father and never will be.
The point i'm trying to make is that, Atleast in my case, the pairent that used spanking when apropreate is more effective then a pairent then the one who only uses words.

Although it is not as easy to convince your kid to do what they need to do, it is completely possible. I've worked with children as part of several jobs, and in no case have I been unable to get positive behavior with non-violent methods. Corporal punishment is more the "lazy man's way out" or the "inarticulate man's way out" of actual discipline.

You also appear to be confusing short-term outcomes with long-term outcomes. Research (see my above post) shows that in the long run corporal punishment ends with worse behavioral and emotional outcomes.

Exactly how long term are we talking here? I'm turning 19 in a few months and I might have called my brother a "little" shit but I'm not implying that he is little at all. He is 17 year old athlete. When are we supoussed to suffer these long term effects from being spanked?

See research: http://heldref-publications.metapress.com/app/home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent&backto=issue,1,6;journal,41,85;linkingpublicationresults,1:119938,1

(Also, research like this is discussing average results - you or your brother could be on either end of the bell curve.)

 

[bombadilillo]

The experts agree with SillyBear. http://heldref-publications.metapress.com/app/home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent&backto=issue,1,6;journal,41,85;linkingpublicationresults,1:119938,1

And, if you have trained in martial arts, you of all people should know what a bad idea it is to strike someone you don't intend to injure.

It was his stupid point to not spank unless you really know what you are doing. Your link didnt link to an actual article btw. I'm not saying spank your kids for everything. But there is a time when it is necessary and if you have never seen your own child doing something stupid that will hurt them after you tell them not to then sorry, you wont understand. See you 4 years after you are a parent. We can have a beer and talk about how stupid they can be.

 

[Kahunaburger]

You have to realize that a child acts differently to their parent. Did you never disobey your parent after they lectured you? If you say no your lying, every child does. Sometimes you need to take it to the next level, usually when it involves them doing something stupid and dangerous. If I lecture them to not press buttons on the dvd player and see them do it again, when I see them try to touch a hot stove I am going to use a stronger method because I know lecture is only so effective. How can you say 100% its unwarrented? Thats idealistic and shortsited.

Yes, I have pretty much always done what I was lectured to do, as has everyone I have lectured. It's just good parenting - you don't need to exercise violence to exercise authority.

You usually see the child lying to their parent as a response to authoritarian parenting, which is associated with corporal punishment, yelling, or other examples of violent behavior. Authoritative parenting implies setting clear expectations and ensuring your child fulfills those expectations, and generally is more effective at achieving genuine behavioral change because the child *wants* to do the right thing.

 

[SillyBear]

Unless you have extensive knowledge or raising children shut the fuck up and and find a better way to think you are an expert at something you are not. I have 4, how bout you? I have trained martial arts so its ok to spank my kid now? Do I have your permission?

Ah, this old adage. "I do something so I'm allowed to do it". Nice. And I do have a very sound knowledge of raising children.

If you want to hit something you are supposed to love and is twice as small as you, go ahead. Just be safe in the knowledge that there are millions of parents who don't hit their children and are better parents for it.

If you also want to ignore the advice from practically every pediactric society in the western world, including the American Academy of Pediatrics, then go ahead. Your kids, their life. I'll leave you with this though:

"A study in the May issue of Pediatrics asked nearly 2,500 moms how often they'd spanked their 3-year-old children in the past month. 45.6% of the parent's never hit their children. The researchers also asked questions about the level of aggressive behaviors shown by the child.

Even after accounting for parental risk factors, such as parenting stress, alcohol use and other types of aggression within the family, frequent spanking at age 3 increased the odds of higher levels of aggression at age 5."

And here is another case study that measured the effects across six different countries: http://www.physorg.com/news189367630.html .

I'm pretty sure you can guess by now what they found out. They found that spanking leads to more child aggression and anxiety, regardless of the country, regardless of the type of parent.

So don't give me this whole "shut the fuck up" routine. Just because you have children does not make you morally correct, especially when nearly every child health association in the Western world disagrees with you. And at least I am citing stone cold evidence that suggests my side of the argument has weight behind it. You are the person screaming telling me to "shut the fuck up".

I'm not surprised your reaction to an action you don't like is to be aggressive. It's clear I'm not the only one who has learnt this. Maybe you'd prefer to hit me? Or will I be privy to another insult? All you are showing me is someone with your aggressive attitude believes they have a right to hit things. I get it, you hate it when someone suggests you are wrong and you hate it when you see someone who is advocating for non-violent solutions. This isn't news to me buddy, so unless you want to calm down and discuss it, I'm not interested in talking to you.

snip

You can look at the evidence I posted above, too. Oh, and this http://heldref-publications.metapress.com/app/home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent&backto=issue,1,6;journal,41,85;linkingpublicationresults,1:119938,1

 

[Nightvalien]

here in brazil such crap has become illegal and you can be sent to jail if you are reported of doing so.

 

[Kahunaburger]

The experts agree with SillyBear. http://heldref-publications.metapress.com/app/home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent&backto=issue,1,6;journal,41,85;linkingpublicationresults,1:119938,1

And, if you have trained in martial arts, you of all people should know what a bad idea it is to strike someone you don't intend to injure.

It was his stupid point to not spank unless you really know what you are doing. Your link didnt link to an actual article btw. I'm not saying spank your kids for everything. But there is a time when it is necessary and if you have never seen your own child doing something stupid that will hurt them after you tell them not to then sorry, you wont understand. See you 4 years after you are a parent. We can have a beer and talk about how stupid they can be.

Yeah, the full article costs money. The abstract tells you the results, however, which are that corporal punishment leads to worse behavioral and emotional outcomes but not to pathological outcomes.

 

[bombadilillo]

You have to realize that a child acts differently to their parent. Did you never disobey your parent after they lectured you? If you say no your lying, every child does. Sometimes you need to take it to the next level, usually when it involves them doing something stupid and dangerous. If I lecture them to not press buttons on the dvd player and see them do it again, when I see them try to touch a hot stove I am going to use a stronger method because I know lecture is only so effective. How can you say 100% its unwarrented? Thats idealistic and shortsited.

Yes, I have pretty much always done what I was lectured to do, as has everyone I have lectured. It's just good parenting - you don't need to exercise violence to exercise authority.

You usually see the child lying to their parent as a response to authoritarian parenting, which is associated with corporal punishment, yelling, or other examples of violent behavior. Authoritative parenting implies setting clear expectations and ensuring your child fulfills those expectations, and generally is more effective at achieving genuine behavioral change because the child *wants* to do the right thing.

Authoritative also involves following up on established punishments, which when kids are you is corporal. So wheres your argument now? Yes I took psychology as well and know what the parenting styles entail.

 

[bombadilillo]

Unless you have extensive knowledge or raising children shut the fuck up and and find a better way to think you are an expert at something you are not. I have 4, how bout you? I have trained martial arts so its ok to spank my kid now? Do I have your permission?

Ah, this old adage. "I do something so I'm allowed to do it". Nice. And I do have a very sound knowledge of raising children.

If you want to hit something you are supposed to love and is twice as small as you, go ahead. Just be safe in the knowledge that there are millions of parents who don't hit their children and are better parents for it.

If you also want to ignore the advice from practically every pediactric society in the western world, including the American Academy of Pediatrics, then go ahead. Your kids, their life. I'll leave you with this though:

"A study in the May issue of Pediatrics asked nearly 2,500 moms how often they'd spanked their 3-year-old children in the past month. 45.6% of the parent's never hit their children. The researchers also asked questions about the level of aggressive behaviors shown by the child.

Even after accounting for parental risk factors, such as parenting stress, alcohol use and other types of aggression within the family, frequent spanking at age 3 increased the odds of higher levels of aggression at age 5."

And here is another case study that measured the effects across six different countries: http://www.physorg.com/news189367630.html .

I'm pretty sure you can guess by now what they found out. They found that spanking leads to more child aggression and anxiety, regardless of the country, regardless of the type of parent.

So don't give me this whole "shut the fuck up" routine. Just because you have children does not make you morally correct, especially when nearly every child health association in the Western world disagrees with you. And at least I am citing stone cold evidence that suggests my side of the argument has weight behind it. You are the person screaming telling me to "shut the fuck up".

I'm not surprised your reaction to an action you don't like is to be aggressive. It's clear I'm not the only one who has learnt this. Maybe you'd prefer to hit me? Or will I be privy to another insult? All you are showing me is someone with your aggressive attitude believes they have a right to hit things. I get it, you hate it when someone suggests you are wrong and you hate it when you see someone who is advocating for non-violent solutions. This isn't news to me buddy, so unless you want to calm down and discuss it, I'm not interested in talking to you.

snip

You can look at the evidence I posted above, too. Oh, and this http://heldref-publications.metapress.com/app/home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent&backto=issue,1,6;journal,41,85;linkingpublicationresults,1:119938,1

I am secure in the knowledge that if you ever have a kid you will eat your words soooooo bad. I thought this way before I had kids. Its a lot different. Its really pointless debating it. You dont know so you can have whatever idealistic theory you want. Have fun being wrong.