The old belt (Parents using violence to correct you)

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TiefBlau

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Apr 16, 2009
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Most people whose parents have spanked or beat them don't like being told that it's wrong. I know I didn't.

This is for a variety of reasons. For one, it implies that they're in some way screwed up. Otherwise, what's wrong with it? You turned out fine, right?

It also implies that you went through unnecessary suffering, and most people think this means they got the short end of the stick or something.

Another reason is that no matter how you were raised, unless it was really out of whack, you really don't consider your childhood treatment anything but normal.

Regardless of your reasoning, I've come to understand that there are certainly better ways to raise your child than violence. Perhaps in a few years, even the very concept of discipline will have taken on a new meaning.
 

zerobudgetgamer

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Apr 5, 2011
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I love how everyone uses different euphemisms for the subject of physical abuse - spanking, beating, whipping, smacking, etc. - without really agreeing on a preset definition of what we're arguing about.

For the record, I DO NOT believe that parents should administer any form of brutal beating to their children, by which I mean using their fists to assault parts of the child's body that could be easily seen by others. This does nothing but instill pure fear towards the parents instead of love or respect, and has every right to be illegal.

Now, spanking or smacking their children - by which I mean either administering a flat, possibly large item to the child's posterior at a painful, but not injury-inducing level, or using the palm or fingers of one hand to strike at a part of the child's body in a light enough manner to not cause injury, but in a heavy enough manner to illicit a response from the child respectively - I do not see as wrong, immoral, or illegal, and should be a part of raising, at the very least, a young, pre-teen child.

Children, and I do mean Children, not Teens, need to have a certain amount of structure in their lives. Many of them are prone to doing things on a whim, without really taking the time to think if what they're about to do might be bad, either for them, those around them, or quite possibly on a legal/moral standpoint. They need to know that certain actions come with consequences, and it's up to the parent to responsibly determine what those actions are. By this, I do not expect to see a parent giving their child a timely smack on the back of their child's head every time they speak out of turn, or take them out of the room to administer a spanking if they accidentally spill their drink. What I refer to are slightly larger things.

Physical discipline carries much the same weight as swear words. If you use them too much, no one believes you're using them seriously anymore, and will typically dislike/hate you the more you use them. But if you watch how you use them, wait until a specific moment that calls for nothing short of something truly unworldly, than they carry with them an unbelievable potency, and those who are audience to this act feel the weight of that moment all the more. Conversely, if they're never used, one could possibly be considered a calmer, kinder, gentler person because of it. But good guys are typically among the first to be betrayed, undermined, or outright ignored.

A child needs to respect their parents. They do not need to fear their parents, but they do need to respect them. Some people believe a child that does not receive any discipline feels himself to be invincible. This is only a half truth, IMO. I believe that all children believe themselves to be invincible, and it's up to their parents to show them where their limits lie, whatever that may entail. Physical force is quite possibly the fastest, easiest, and only through consideration of the aforementioned, the most effective means of asserting authority and administering punishment for an action. However, as many have shown, it is not the end-all-be-all answer. Once again, however, there aren't many forms of "nonviolent punishment" out there that really seem to work anymore.

I mean, think about it. Nowadays children have Cell Phones, the Internet, various types of Video Games, TV, music, and more and more are gaining access to these things in their own rooms. For "Grounding" to hold any kind of weight, you'd need to go to the trouble of removing all of these all at once. If you simply send them to their room, you're just doing what most kids would want to do anyway. If you cut the Internet and Cable from their room, they'd still have their video games. Cut the power from the room completely, they'd still have battery-operated things like DS, iPod, etc. And god forbid if your kid likes to read, but I suppose if you have a kid that likes reading maybe you're not so bad off. You'd have to go to incredible lengths to deprive your child of things just to make it "feel" like a punishment, and even more just to make sure the deprivation keeps and the child doesn't pull out some "secret" stash and undermines everything you just tried to do. All to be a "good" parent and not "beat" your child.

Now, maybe I'm being a little rash. To those who are against spanking/smacking your kids, what do YOU all do to punish your kid when they do something wrong. And a follow-up question, how well does it really work? If you're not keeping a close eye on them, how do you really know they're being "punished" and not just sent to their room to do something they probably do already.
 

Choppaduel

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Mar 20, 2009
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LarenzoAOG said:
if you teach a child that if he does soething wrong the outcome will be a blistered ass, he'll shape up fast, works on dogs too.
That speaks volumes. Are we raising children into independent people, or raising them into obedient trained "dogs?"

[hr]

TestECull said:
I got spanked as a child but I don't fear or automatically submit to authority. As a matter of fact questioning authority is what usually led to me getting spanked in the first place.

Timothy Leary puts it well. I wish more people shared this sentiment.
 

boyvirgo666

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May 12, 2009
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Hobo Steve said:
Its quick, its effective and it works.
Not hitting your kids just turns them into spoiled little cunts who think they are invincible.
If you love your kids, beat them.
exactly my mom hit me when i fucked up and im gonna hit my kids when they deserve it. its not child abuse unless you do it randomly and for no reason. but when they fuck up they deserve it
 

SillyBear

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May 10, 2011
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jedizero said:
SillyBear, you are coming in, thumping a 'parents guide', that doesn't exist. There is no supreme uber parents guide that can be used for all children, and all situations. That doesn't exist, *can't* exist.
I never even suggested that there was. I was offering evidence that shows clearly that hitting a child isn't a smart thing to do. They countered this with illogical nonsense.

I think it's a shame you are telling me to shut up, when I am advocating that people don't hit small children and I have provided solid, sound evidence from well respected sources. But whatever.
 

zarguhl

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Oct 4, 2010
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From what I can see in this thread, there are a lot of angry people who see kids as a burden, lesser beings that need to be tolerated and molded to get them into shape to be a "proper person."

Also a lot of resentment, like "I was beaten and it did me good so I'm going to do the same to my kids!" So without even having kids yet, the assumption that there'll be "reasons" to beat them is already in place?

I know some parents just lack the understanding of kids and believe smacking is the only or right way to control them and don't realise it could be wrong or that there's a better way. Fair enough, there is a LOT of propaganda and misinformation put out designed to cause exactly that.

However in reality a good parent has no need to use violence against their kids. They do however need a full understanding of how people (children included) actually operate and they need the ability to confront reality rather than just react, so they don't use what was done to them as an excuse to do the same to others. For example a parent doing a bad job, getting a bad reaction from their kid, then getting angry and blaming the kid, thus punishing them. It comes back to the adult's lack of understanding and inability to confront the real situation (i.e., they make a mistake, suck it up).

A child raised with genuine love and understanding (as opposed to being looked upon with resentment as a burden) will not require harsh discipline. If you got your GF knocked up, resent her and the baby and consider it something you need to force into obedience so it doesn't get in your way, yeah, you'll have a terror on your hands.

Dogs get trained into obedience easily. Training a human into obedience is a lot harder and comes with far greater risks... Dogs only rarely go nuts and bite their owners, humans never stop finding a way to hurt their tormentor - overtly or covertly - to the grave.
 

NathLines

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May 23, 2010
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It is wholly unneeded. I never needed to get hit, my mother scared the living shit out of me anyway. Sure, I hate her now but I really think that I've grown from the ordeal.
 

Raregolddragon

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Oct 26, 2008
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Humm my mother and father tanned my hide for just about fuck up I ever did. I learned to be responsible very quickly.

I am 21, enrolled at Sulross State University working getting a degree in Computer Science I have a 3.432 GPA

I have a decent 9 bucks an hour summer job at Hastings right now during the brake.

I drive a 1997 960 Volvo.

I am going to have to say beatings work for raising your kids, and I am going to have to say yes I will spake, whip, beat my kids when they screw up.
 

jedizero

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Feb 26, 2009
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I'm not telling you to shut up because of that, I'm telling you to shut up because when you start going down to insulting, or things like this:

SillyBear said:
I agree, and there is something interesting about a person who so readily defends violence towards a child without providing any reliable evidence or any shred of a logical assessment of why, and all the while denying every piece of evidence that proves otherwise. It's a little disturbing, but it does interest me. Life would be a very simple place for them, I guess.

I am glad they have no worthwhile medical or psychological association on their side though. Haha.
You are falling for bait for trolls.

Perhaps he has a problem expressing himself. Perhaps he's just here being a trolling asshole. Who knows? You offered proof, when he refused to accept it, let alone try and discuss it, its better to just ignore him and discuss this with other people who are actually willing/capable to do so.
 

warprincenataku

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Jan 28, 2010
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LFC Scouser said:
It's called child abuse and it is illegal if someone does it report them simple enough right?
Ah, you must be a child of the 'time out' way of punishing. Which means you're probably younger than 20.
 

SillyBear

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May 10, 2011
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jedizero said:
I'm not telling you to shut up because of that, I'm telling you to shut up because when you start going down to insulting, or things like this:

SillyBear said:
I agree, and there is something interesting about a person who so readily defends violence towards a child without providing any reliable evidence or any shred of a logical assessment of why, and all the while denying every piece of evidence that proves otherwise. It's a little disturbing, but it does interest me. Life would be a very simple place for them, I guess.

I am glad they have no worthwhile medical or psychological association on their side though. Haha.
You are falling for bait for trolls.

Perhaps he has a problem expressing himself. Perhaps he's just here being a trolling asshole. Who knows? You offered proof, when he refused to accept it, let alone try and discuss it, its better to just ignore him and discuss this with other people who are actually willing/capable to do so.
Ah, good thing you told me to shut the fuck up then. Imagine what would have happened if you didn't. Very mature of you.
 

LarenzoAOG

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Apr 28, 2010
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Choppaduel said:
LarenzoAOG said:
if you teach a child that if he does soething wrong the outcome will be a blistered ass, he'll shape up fast, works on dogs too.
That speaks volumes. Are we raising children into independent people, or raising them into obedient trained "dogs?"

[hr]

TestECull said:
I got spanked as a child but I don't fear or automatically submit to authority. As a matter of fact questioning authority is what usually led to me getting spanked in the first place.

Timothy Leary puts it well. I wish more people shared this sentiment.
Well if that was the case it sure didn't work on me, I used to get my ass beat because I argued constantly with my parents, still do, and also my dogs love me, it was someone else's dog, put my pup's entire head in his mouth so I smacked his ass, he didn't do it again.
 

jedizero

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Feb 26, 2009
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SillyBear said:
Ah, good thing you told me to shut the fuck up then. Imagine what would have happened if you didn't. Very mature of you.
You're also failing to notice I said for *both* of you to.

Feel free however to feel slighted in someway from letters over the internet. I'll be over here throwing peanuts.
 

zeldagirl

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Mar 15, 2011
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As someone brought up earlier, why should we punish children, who are smaller and more fragile than us adults, with even the threat of violence? Yes, I understand the argument "well, light spanking works," (in some cases) but even with the worst behaved kids, I've seen parents manage to subdue them without actually hurting them.

SillyBear and others managed to cite a lot of *good* psychological sources on this, so I'm not going to bother, but really, I think it's a trend we need to move away from.
SillyBear said:
jedizero said:
SillyBear, you are coming in, thumping a 'parents guide', that doesn't exist. There is no supreme uber parents guide that can be used for all children, and all situations. That doesn't exist, *can't* exist.
I never even suggested that there was. I was offering evidence that shows clearly that hitting a child isn't a smart thing to do. They countered this with illogical nonsense.

I think it's a shame you are telling me to shut up, when I am advocating that people don't hit small children and I have provided solid, sound evidence from well respected sources. But whatever.
You keep on keepin' on, because I think you're spot on through this discussion.
 

Siberian Relic

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Jan 15, 2010
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I advocate spanking, but I can really only speak for my case. I was paddled in my youth, but my parents knew how to exercise restraint, and they conveyed how that punishment was meant for guidance out of love and not abuse out of frustration. I never came to hate, disrespect, or fear my parents. What I feared was that paddle.
 

Stako

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Apr 2, 2011
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Firstly, I believe whoever does so does it because of fear of losing control over the child. Most 'Adults', as we probobly have came to call them in this topic, hate to lose control over their kids, although not admiting it. Every parent has an idea for his/her child and when that idea gets cracked, if they havent got good nerves, they go onto a violent level.

I don't approve of this. A child should be given the freedom it deserves, the parent is there to keep it on the right track, but not via force, but via wisdom and explenation. Sadly, most parents don't know that and use violence against they're children, and the scary part is that that child is going to probobly be the same one day - the case is either the same, or drasticly different, but for it to be different the child must have at least one close figure which to explain to it why this is wrong and make it believe so, which is rare, although it doesnt seem like it.