The old belt (Parents using violence to correct you)

[RaNDM G]

I'm more in favor of using discipline over the use of violence. For most situations, permanently taking away a child's liberties in the household is more effective than simply causing temporary pain. It asserts that you are essentially the King of your castle, and that you alone establish what rules the commoners (the children) follow. Hitting may be necessary on rare occasions, but it's more important for a parent to follow up on their promises (ie: Following through with threats).

This article gives pretty good advice on how to raise kids. Link.

As for times where hitting is the only option to getting your children's attention, it really depends on the crime. In minor cases, a slap on the wrist or a Gibbs-slap is fine. Spanking pushes the boundaries, but I think it's acceptable for when a child intentionally breaks something, hurts someone, or makes someone cry.

In any case, whipping or beating is unacceptable. A person who whips their own child is no better than a master whipping their slave.

 

[captainwolfos]

I'm totally unopposed to giving kids a well deserved slap. Some of the people and their kids around here need it, especially ¬_¬ Either that, or don't have kids. Crisis averted, if you're all for 'someone think of the children'.

 

[Semitendon]

It's a fine, fine, line.

Personally, I am of the opinion that spanking can be used as an acceptable punishment. My parents spanked me, and it definitely worked. However, it only used as a last resort, and only when the situation warranted it.

For example, I remember being a young child, maybe 6 or 7, and I started to run into the road to get a ball or something. Before I had taken one step into the road, I was jerked back, spun around, with my mom's face about an inch from mine. " If I EVER, catch you running into the road, you won't be able to sit down for a week!" The sheer intensity and the fact that I knew she was capable of making good on her threat kept me from running into the road until I was old enough to have permission to do so.

See, my parents gave spankings, and it wasn't a bunch of idle threats either, so for most of my childhood, my parents could get obedience with the suggestion of spanking, rather than the actual use.

Unfortunately, spanking can be used in ill manner as well.

Examples.

1. Parents who lose control or are angry when they spank. This can quickly devolve into physical abuse, and that is one of the worst things a person can do.

2. Parents who use spanking exclusively. There are a number of ways to discipline children, some of them effective, others are not, but spanking should never be the default punishment.

3. Parents who use spanking as a threat, which they rarely follow through on. I have friends that have a daughter, and every night is a screaming match at bedtime. The parents yell and sometimes threaten a spanking, the kid screams, but nothing happens. Most nights, the parents give up, and the child is allowed to stay awake past the designated bedtime. This reinforces the childs concept that the parents won't follow up, and that screaming is effective. Eventually, a night comes when the parents can't take it anymore, and actually spank her. The problem is, you can't blame a kid for misbehaving when that type of behavior is taught, and the parents risk the above mentioned reason one.

In short, spanking can be used effectively, safely, with no harm to the child, or it can be used to abuse and undermine the parents own desires for well behaved child. It takes a wise parent to know the difference, and how to use it.

 

[Alar]

Corporal punishment is one of the less effective ways to discipline children. It causes the child to view violence as the first solution, it leads to emotional problems, it creates divisions between parent and child, and most importantly, it is no more effective than nonviolent discipline.

Think about it. What do you think would stop you from doing something, a beating that lasts 5 minutes, or a ban from your computer that lasts a week?

Honestly, I think people who rely heavily on corporal punishment are just lazy. They ought to have taught moral values to their children at a young age, used positive reinforcement when children did the right thing, restricted the use of something the child valued (like a favorite toy, playdates, etc) as negative enforcement instead of beating him, etc. Instead, a lot of lousy parents are just like, "huh, I don't like what he did? I'll just beat him up."

Of course, there are always children who just don't get it, but corporal punishment will do nothing to help those kids anyway.

Yeah, I have done some stupid shit before and I have had the internet taken away. I sure as fuck never behaved like an ass again. It honestly helped me, If I was hit in the situation I would of got more pissed and just caused more problems. When the internet got shut off I just sulked and thought about my priorities and I rearranged them.

Some children are too smart for this. They can find a way to plug the Internet cable back in, or get another cable, or figure out the password, or what have you.

That makes punishments like these ineffectual. Some children are just too smart to be punished with words or what parents believe are 'revoking privileges'.

There's also an age difference. What do you do when a child is too young to properly comprehend a lecture about why what they did is wrong, or when they simply don't care and ignore you?

I am in no way vouching for beatings, but as many other people have stated, a light smack that does no lasting damage can oftentimes get the attention of a child far better than spending half an hour to an hour trying to tell them why what they did was wrong, or what they wanted to do was wrong.

EDIT: I guess what I'm trying to say is a lot of children are different, especially at different ages, and respond in different ways to different punishments. There is no 'one perfect way' to raise a child that I could ever come up with, and I doubt anyone else could. If there were, I'm afraid to think of what that childhood would actually be.

 

[CRAVE CASE 55]

I grew up with 2 cops as parents lol. Every once in a while I would get the belt, and since my parents were cops i got the gun belt which is thicker and heavier. Not abuse unless you cross a line. they never did no me and they raised me to be well not a punk.

 

[historybuff]

You seem to think a spanking equates with abuse. It's not the same.

A spanking is fast and effective. It takes care of the problem right then and there and then it is dealt with, done, case closed.


My aunt tried the "I will nag him until he listens" approach that I have seen you suggest in the comments.

Now my cousin is 17 and a football player. And he has no qualms about hitting her. Now my mom or my grandmother, he wouldn't dare raise a hand to--because they put the fear of God into him. But his mother thought that was "too mean". And nagged him. And now he won't listen to her.

The thing is, is when you're four years old, you cannot reason like an adult does. An adult cannot reason with you when you're four. Children are inherently selfish--because they do not understand other methods to fulfill their needs/wants. When they act up--it's like training a puppy. Take care of it quickly and efficiently.

You really think a five year old understands a parent's attempt at psychological mind games that nagging inevitably leads to? No. And when the child is old enough to understand, they'll simply resent their parents for it. And anyone else who has authority over them.

Babying your kids doesn't get them anywhere. They'll get made fun of in school, they'll have that mean teacher, or cruel kid down the street. They might struggle in a class. When they act up at home, they might get a smack.

It won't kill them.

What I notice about horrible children is that they have horrible parents. Kids themselves are not so bad. It's the parents that make them wretched. I used to work in retail. You know what was similar about the kids who went around and destroyed displays?

His mom or dad said, "OH, honey, don't do that." And then did nothing and then got nasty with employees when we suggested they either control their children or quietly leave the store.

You know what I noticed about the kids who didn't? They had parents who cared enough about them and who were respectful of the general public to keep control of their kids.

 

[Kevonovitch]

Its quick, its effective and it works.
Not hitting your kids just turns them into spoiled little cunts who think they are invincible.
If you love your kids, beat them.

and far too much evidence running around proving you right good sir.

tbh, i'm all for spanking them, taking away luxuries, but nothing excessive. too many kids use too many different things to get away with w/e they want, with no consiquence to them, and thats bullshit, and frankly, the generations coming up like that, i cannot express my opinion on them without being banned on the forums.

i'll keep it short, no consiquence or "punishment" if you will, what do they learn? "I can do whatever I want, and YOU can't stop me!" sound familiar? it should. so they grow up, feeling entitled, and always looking for a way to do exactly that, whatever they want, regardless of everything else.

hell, my folks used a leather belt, and frankly, sure it sucked back then, but hey, i knew what i was getting in shit for, and why, and honestly, no real problems here.

 

[zarguhl]

Sure, I was very young and just a child, but I still had a sense of pride, and I would rather act like a little shit to spite this painful, embarrassing moment, even if it risked getting spanked again.

Exactly. Kids actually have a much better sense of pride than adults. Adults go all "Aww, I was bad, I deserve to be punished for I am worthless and modest and blah blah blah." Kids get punished and want to attack!

That's how it should be. Once a person is beaten into apathy so they aren't willing or able to fight back when they are wronged, their life is over.

With a lot of parents this happens to their kids at a young age because they are continually held down by their parents.

Good parents raise self determined, capable, proud and effective adults who go on to do something worthwhile in life.

Parents who hit their kids raise covert, snarky, yet obediant and apathetic adults with little ambition or drive. People who are "well adjusted" and "happy" with things as they are, without any concept of it being possible for things to be better.

These people argue that your environment controls you, that you can't really get anywhere in life anyway, that it's all about luck or who you know that defines how well you do in life, etc, etc. That is the result of raising a "well disciplined" child.

Edit:
And anyone who doesn't respect themselves won't ever really respect others. They'll just say so because it's been programmed into them as the safe thing to say.

A child learns respect and responsibility by being shown respect and responsibility and being permitted to take responsibility themselves. i.e. Actually letting them help and be a part of the family, not treated as some burden on the group.

 

[me.vicky]

I hate to see when kids get hit on or beat or abused...Why do people let kids get beat up on, that only teaches them to cower in fear and think that you should always submit to authority.

I don't think you should ever lay a hand on someone who is a minor...what I'm stressing is that violence should never be used on kids as a solution to a problem that could be fixed in less harmful ways.

By beating I mean a punishment that is meant to cause pain. I just think physical violence with intent to hurt should never be used. And regular physical punishment should never be used until the child repeats the same thing over and over again.

First of all, I resent the implication all the way through your wall of text that physical punishment, of any form, is tantamount to child abuse (hence the terms beating, violence, and abused). Beating and physical punishment are not freely-exchangeable words. There is a BIG difference between using pain (in, say, the form of a calm and well-explained spanking) to discourage negative behavior in your kids, and lashing out in anger at someone smaller and emotionally vulnerable to you because of messed-up psychology.
Yes, a physical punishment is meant to cause pain, but it isn't meant to cause someone severe physical, mental or emotional trauma. When I got in trouble as a kid, my parents NEVER lashed out at me in anger, or deliberately tried to injure me. A spanking meant that a parent would take me aside, explain what I did wrong, and tell me they still loved me and were no longer upset after the spanking had happened. THAT is the difference between discipline and abuse. The problem is, not all parents do this, hence the blurring of the lines between what is child abuse and what is not.

Secondly, I take offense at your idea that children should not "think that you should always submit to authority." As a parent, it is your job to teach children to obey authority, including (especially) your own authority, as they will have to deal with authority figures for the rest of their lives, and will eventually become authorities in their own lives (for example, if they themselves have children). It is unavoidable; if a child is going to become a functioning member of society, then somewhere along the line they must learn to respect authority. Anything else would eventually descend into anarchy.

Lastly, why do you bite on your words in your edited first post? I think either I or you are confused as to what "physical punishment" entails. Should it "never be used?" Or should this "violence" be used only when other methods of punishment fail to work. There's a reason people spank their kids: IT WORKS. Spare the rod, spoil the child.

 

[Eisenfaust]

spare the rod, spoil the child

the definition of rod here is always subjective, depending on what's needed... essentially it just means "discipline"

specifically, beating? traditionally (when done right) it should only have to be done once, twice... as a psychological deterrant it's incredibly effective. they mucking up, they get the belt (or in my case, the slipper... which stung like hell) and they learn that mucking up gets them punished (applications for later life, see?) and they abide by the rules. If done correctly, it should only ever have to be done twice at the most (that's all that i needed), with maybe the occasional threat afterwards. works wonders

i'm not advocating full on bashings... but the odd light beating teaches them, psychologically, the real world consequences of their actions, when legal punishment wouldn't be fully understood...

 

[Alar]

You seem to think a spanking equates with abuse. It's not the same.

A spanking is fast and effective. It takes care of the problem right then and there and then it is dealt with, done, case closed.


My aunt tried the "I will nag him until he listens" approach that I have seen you suggest in the comments.

Now my cousin is 17 and a football player. And he has no qualms about hitting her. Now my mom or my grandmother, he wouldn't dare raise a hand to--because they put the fear of God into him. But his mother thought that was "too mean". And nagged him. And now he won't listen to her.

The thing is, is when you're four years old, you cannot reason like an adult does. An adult cannot reason with you when you're four. Children are inherently selfish--because they do not understand other methods to fulfill their needs/wants. When they act up--it's like training a puppy. Take care of it quickly and efficiently.

You really think a five year old understands a parent's attempt at psychological mind games that nagging inevitably leads to? No. And when the child is old enough to understand, they'll simply resent their parents for it. And anyone else who has authority over them.

Babying your kids doesn't get them anywhere. They'll get made fun of in school, they'll have that mean teacher, or cruel kid down the street. They might struggle in a class. When they act up at home, they might get a smack.

It won't kill them.

What I notice about horrible children is that they have horrible parents. Kids themselves are not so bad. It's the parents that make them wretched. I used to work in retail. You know what was similar about the kids who went around and destroyed displays?

His mom or dad said, "OH, honey, don't do that." And then did nothing and then got nasty with employees when we suggested they either control their children or quietly leave the store.

You know what I noticed about the kids who didn't? They had parents who cared enough about them and who were respectful of the general public to keep control of their kids.

Everything here is pretty much something I agree with. I'd like to see more people addressing the younger children, rather than the 'rational' children that one can negotiate with.

 

[JET1971]

When i was little the first time i said "no" to my father... i walked away with a bloody lip. I never ever said "NO" again in defiance with my father or my mother for that matter. the back of his hand made contact with my mouth so fast i didnt even realize it for several seconds. looking back on it, It got the point across that I was not incharge and not to backtalk, and it was the best way to get the point across. in a grocery store standing in line and begging for candy, if i persisted after mom said no then i got a swift swat on the ass, hurt like hell and shut me up too! when I did something stupid and got in trouble, i knew there was going to be a belt with my name on it waiting for my ass at home. I didnt get into trouble as much becuase of it.

Did it teach me that violance is OK for solving problems? haha no it taught me violance is bad! hurts like hell and is not ok to do to others. If I ever got into a fight and I started it.. I got the ever loving shit kicked out of me all the while being asked "hows it feel! You like that?".. well it felt like it and I never started a fight after. I wont raise a fist to anyone unless its in self defense.

It wasnt always spanking for being bad, that was reserved for the worst case scenarios. there were plenty of lectures, getting grounded with no TV, phone, music, toys, anything other than school books. and truthfully.. i prefered the belt than a week with nothing to do but school books.

Today i see little shitheads with no respect and trash talk coming out of their mouth like it was a sewer, and directed at mom or dad and they both stand there with no options because if they swatted the little shit they get CPS called on them and the kids know it and sometimes threaten it. corporal punishment has a place and is effective, a complete lack of it creates entitled lil bastards who need a good old fashioned beating.

 

[Astoria]

There's a difference between discipline and abuse. My parents hit me a few times when I was younger and I've never played up once. It was one swift smack and then I was put in my room and that was it. When a parent turns to violence straight away now that is wrong but if they've tried everything they can think of then one hit isn't going to permenatly damage them and the shock enough would probably make them stop. I think most of us know where to draw the line.

 

[Gokuofuin]

mmmmm, all of these responses have a fair amount of truth and good points in them, but I still side with the option of some children are worse than others.
One child will do something wrong and be reprimanded for it, ok so he understands that what he did is a problem and he should not be doing it, then he goes about his life never repeating that action and everyone wins.
Now the other child goes threw the same situation but he realizes something, and that is that his parents cannot actually DO anything to stop him from repeating that action again, so he does it again and now he gets a thwack from his dad on his arse. (not with any instruments just a bare hand) then he realizes that if he does it again his dad will punish him in the same way again.
So he now no longer does it.

This brings about two main points:
1) NOT all children need to be given physical punishment
2) ALL children need to be given a second chance to break the rule, then heavier punishment can be dealt out.

These points of course only work with some parents, if there was a universal law for raising children then parenting wouldn't be the chore it is.

Those are my thoughts on the matter. (BTW I was given physical punishment as a child and it did not change the way I see my parents or make me into a 'physical violence solves everything' person)

 

[JET1971]

You seem to think a spanking equates with abuse. It's not the same.

A spanking is fast and effective. It takes care of the problem right then and there and then it is dealt with, done, case closed.


My aunt tried the "I will nag him until he listens" approach that I have seen you suggest in the comments.

Now my cousin is 17 and a football player. And he has no qualms about hitting her. Now my mom or my grandmother, he wouldn't dare raise a hand to--because they put the fear of God into him. But his mother thought that was "too mean". And nagged him. And now he won't listen to her.

The thing is, is when you're four years old, you cannot reason like an adult does. An adult cannot reason with you when you're four. Children are inherently selfish--because they do not understand other methods to fulfill their needs/wants. When they act up--it's like training a puppy. Take care of it quickly and efficiently.

You really think a five year old understands a parent's attempt at psychological mind games that nagging inevitably leads to? No. And when the child is old enough to understand, they'll simply resent their parents for it. And anyone else who has authority over them.

Babying your kids doesn't get them anywhere. They'll get made fun of in school, they'll have that mean teacher, or cruel kid down the street. They might struggle in a class. When they act up at home, they might get a smack.

It won't kill them.

What I notice about horrible children is that they have horrible parents. Kids themselves are not so bad. It's the parents that make them wretched. I used to work in retail. You know what was similar about the kids who went around and destroyed displays?

His mom or dad said, "OH, honey, don't do that." And then did nothing and then got nasty with employees when we suggested they either control their children or quietly leave the store.

You know what I noticed about the kids who didn't? They had parents who cared enough about them and who were respectful of the general public to keep control of their kids.

Where is the rep button? you said basicly all of it. especialy the training a puppy part because thats a great analogy. in many ways a puppy and a child learn things the same ways. cause and affect, if you do something wrong and the affect is a sore ass... you learned that doing that is not a good idea. and we like puppies learn that way naturaly. if it doesnt kill us but hurt like hell we know better than to try it again. if it was something we did good and got a treat... yep gonna do that again!

*edit

I just want to point out that i am talking about very young children. once they get older and become more social.. say around 10 then punishment should always be more towards removal of privilages since thats very important to them. but that age depends on the child too.

 

[FalloutJack]

Teaches the wrong message. It teaches you that your parents are violent sociopaths. It teaches that they will do wrong in order to point out your wrongs (assuming you were wrong in the first place). You can't be passive to a kid, but a beating only makes them loathe.

 

[Trippy Turtle]

I'm generally the quiet non-confrontational kid and i'm normally well behaved. my parents have never hit me and if they did i would probably hit them back (or restrain them, depending how hard they hit.). If they told me to go to my room or something sure i would do it but corporal punishment is so wrong it makes kids think violence is good and that they should submit to someone because they are somehow better then them.

Its quick, its effective and it works.
Not hitting your kids just turns them into spoiled little cunts who think they are invincible.
If you love your kids, beat them.

Also to you, I'm not a "spoiled little ****" and quite honestly how would you like it if i decided you done something wrong and smacked you across the face? Sure i would like to but it wouldn't help anything.

 

[jakefongloo]

There's a difference between violence and discipline. When children are young and want to be defiant you need to show them who's in charge and the only method their growing minds can understand is force. I'm all for whippings, my mother didn't use a belt though; she used a plastic paint stirrer.

Fuck, ow! I just got open hand spank

The physical assertiveness made the point but my parents willing to sacrifice their money, time, jobs to me while still maintaining their pride and dignity made me respect them. Once I was 8 and beyond I never did a wrong because if I dissapointed my parents it would literally make me feel like the worst shit in the world.

Everything I did...am doing is only to pay them back for the unconditional support they have given me.

I know for a fact however that i would have taken advantage of them (unintentional or otherwise) if they did not establish themselves as the dominant force.