The old belt (Parents using violence to correct you)

[LTAshler]

The old adage of "spare the rod, spoil the child" applies here.

I work in childcare and can testify to the truth of this statement. Several of the kids I work with have told me about their parents' disciplinary methods and, without exception, the ones whose parents give them spankings are the ones who are the best behaved. Those whose parents seem to think that their children can do no wrong are some of the most disrespectful persons i have been around.

I have observed similar trends in how both I and my friends were brought up.
I also think it important to clarify the difference between spanking and beating. Spanking is hitting the child on the backside with a judicious amount of force and does not leave lasting injury. Beating connotes physical violence that often results in injury and sometimes even death. Spanking is acceptable (but should never be done while the spanker is angry, and from personal experience, tends to work best when accompanied by a lecture), while beating is NEVER acceptable and should be vigorously prosecuted.

Our culture seems to have developed a sense of entitlement that needs to go away and soon. If people lay around expecting to be pampered, it won't be too terribly long before any given third world country would be able to march in and take DC.

 

[SillyBear]

I said, quite clearly that you can get evidence from different sources supporting pretty much anything.

Oh, what rot. I'd like to see you get evidence from any official pediatric association in the Western World that advocates hitting your children. Go on, that's a challenge. I can save you the trouble right now and tell you that you aren't going to find it. I'd also like you to find evidence for the world being only two thousand years old in a valid scientific journal. Oh wait, you can't.

There is a different between posting any sources and posting sources from multi-national medical professionals that have conducted tests that unarguably suggest beating a child doesn't do much good.

The violent video game one was just a example since gamers (and you) always quickly dismiss their findings simply because you do not agree with them.

Oh, nonsense. You're ridiculous. I said off hand that I hadn't seen any piece of real evidence to suggest video games being linked to violence. Why? Because I fucking haven't. I never said that it wasn't true, and I never claimed to be a opposed to the idea. You made that part up, you dunce. Then, after making that part up, you started criticising me for it. You're a real genius mate.

Yet you expect others to take sources you trust as the word of god.

If you want to pretend all those international organisations are full of nonsense, you're allowed to. If you want to think that they are all brainwashed and they are all full of shit, fine, go ahead. But once you completely fail to acknowledge their actual experiments, and discount them despite them being conducted perfectly and despite them showing real proof - you're an idiot. Simple.

Go beat up a child or something and jog on.

 

[EvilPicnic]

Not really. On things that have clear cut facts, yes. On issues like psychology which at best are just opinions then anecdotal evidence is just as valid.
What makes millions of parents any less worthy to decide these things than a bunch of twats in coats? Nothing.
When the psychologists study every single child in the world then they will be able to determine shit as fact. Right now, nope.

I think that's a misrepresentation of the situation.

Firstly, there is no such thing as a 'clear cut fact', all that there can ultimately be is a consensus that something is probably true. When the vast majority of studies and experts conclude that the use of corporal punishment in the raising of a child is ineffective and possibly counter-productive, then we can reasonably accept that fact to be true.

Secondly, you seem fixated on the position of the parent, but haven't mentioned the child yet once. The desired outcome is a well-brought-up child, not affirmation of the parent's satisfaction with their own parenting.

Thirdly, no, it isn't twats in white coats vs. millions of parents. It's twats in white coats who have worked with and studied millions of parents and their children vs. other opinionated individuals.

And finally, If studying every single child in the world will lead us to truth, then restricting your knowledge to just your own personal sphere will lead to the opposite.

Oh, and yes, your description of anyone doing rigorous research as 'twats in white coats', positively reeks of anti-intellectualism, sorry.

 

[thejackyl]

Nothing wrong with physical disciplining your children. That being said there is a line between disciplining them and beating them.

Sometimes I see children misbehaving where I work, and I want to jump across the counter and beat the child. Sometimes out of frustration, but most of the time it's because the parents refuse to even say anything to the kid.

THAT being said... It should only be used as a last resort. If all else fails, use fire physical discipline.

 

[KezzieZ]

I agree with you, OP. Or at least I think I do if I got the message right.

Beating kids even for bad behavior is not the way to go.

On the other hand, I think I'm at least mostly alright with corporal punishment depending on the age of the kid and the severity of their own actions. I had a couple of spankings when I was young and, while I understandably wasn't happy at the time, I'd prefer it to the idea that I could've grown into a spoiled jerk, you know?

 

[Klarinette]

Spankings worked for my generation, man. Beating your kid with a belt is extreme, but a swift smack on the ass was an effective way to get a kid to understand that they fucked up. The way that a lot of kids are being raised now, using simple words just isn't going to cut it anymore.

 

[LTAshler]

Spankings worked for my generation, man. Beating your kid with a belt is extreme, but a swift smack on the ass was an effective way to get a kid to understand that they fucked up. The way that a lot of kids are being raised now, using simple words just isn't going to cut it anymore.

A-M-E-N

 

[lullabykid]

... it sure as shit put the fear (respect) in me for my parents.

Beat your children, for the future!

I see a viscous cycle here. You conflate fear with respect as a child because your parents beat it into you, then if you gain power later in life you beat that same "respect" into others.

I hate this cycle, it causes so much suffering in the world.

So don't beat your kids, for the future!

break this tired old routine.

[hr]

My father is probably a rare exception but back when I was a young (3-17 years old) he would give me and my younger sister all out beatings. Keep in mind my father was a alcoholic and probably one of the worst people I know lol. I remember my sister broke his chair one day and I couldnt bear to think of how bad he would hit her so I took responsibility and man did I get it bad haha.

Overall the experience made me resent my sister(who never deserved it) and made violence second nature to me. I have a kid on the way now and I probably will spank but I don't believe he/she will ever know how much it hurts me to do so.

please break the cycle of violence

also, I take it you no longer resent your sister?

Lol cycle of violence. Only if you knew how much I truly hated my father.

And my sister. She is dead so I think she cares very little about my feelings towards her

 

[Shadow-Phoenix]

Its quick, its effective and it works.
Not hitting your kids just turns them into spoiled little cunts who think they are invincible.
If you love your kids, beat them.

You sir are the first poster on this topic to make complete sane sense since all i see today are chavs running amock the UK that have never been properly punished along with newer generations that just run all over their parents and need a good beating since it worked back in the old days it shall also work in the present.

 

[Keith Reedy]

Unless you have extensive knowledge or raising children shut the fuck up and and find a better way to think you are an expert at something you are not. I have 4, how bout you? I have trained martial arts so its ok to spank my kid now? Do I have your permission?

Ah, this old adage. "I do something so I'm allowed to do it". Nice. And I do have a very sound knowledge of raising children.

If you want to hit something you are supposed to love and is twice as small as you, go ahead. Just be safe in the knowledge that there are millions of parents who don't hit their children and are better parents for it.

If you also want to ignore the advice from practically every pediactric society in the western world, including the American Academy of Pediatrics, then go ahead. Your kids, their life. I'll leave you with this though:

"A study in the May issue of Pediatrics asked nearly 2,500 moms how often they'd spanked their 3-year-old children in the past month. 45.6% of the parent's never hit their children. The researchers also asked questions about the level of aggressive behaviors shown by the child.

Even after accounting for parental risk factors, such as parenting stress, alcohol use and other types of aggression within the family, frequent spanking at age 3 increased the odds of higher levels of aggression at age 5."

And here is another case study that measured the effects across six different countries: http://www.physorg.com/news189367630.html .

I'm pretty sure you can guess by now what they found out. They found that spanking leads to more child aggression and anxiety, regardless of the country, regardless of the type of parent.

So don't give me this whole "shut the fuck up" routine. Just because you have children does not make you morally correct, especially when nearly every child health association in the Western world disagrees with you. And at least I am citing stone cold evidence that suggests my side of the argument has weight behind it. You are the person screaming telling me to "shut the fuck up".

I'm not surprised your reaction to an action you don't like is to be aggressive. It's clear I'm not the only one who has learnt this. Maybe you'd prefer to hit me? Or will I be privy to another insult? All you are showing me is someone with your aggressive attitude believes they have a right to hit things. I get it, you hate it when someone suggests you are wrong and you hate it when you see someone who is advocating for non-violent solutions. This isn't news to me buddy, so unless you want to calm down and discuss it, I'm not interested in talking to you.

snip

You can look at the evidence I posted above, too. Oh, and this http://heldref-publications.metapress.com/app/home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent&backto=issue,1,6;journal,41,85;linkingpublicationresults,1:119938,1

I'll just gonna say a little something about such research. There are too many other variables involved for any study in such a subject to provide any form of a solid conclusion. This is why we have so far failed to prove or disprove whether video games and other media increase violent tendencies or cause harm.

Now my opinion on physical discipline, It depends, I was spanked as a kid always saw it coming after the first time. Never spanked when I didn't see what I did wrong. Never spanked when I didn't realize I deserved. Most children will respond to talking, some absolutely will not. These may necessitate something a bit more drastic. If your worried about causing harm. Never hit in anger. A stinging slap on the bum or leg is not gonna cause serious harm. The research listed further up is inconclusive in the extreme. This is unlikely to cause back problems it could contribute. But not so much as falling when playing as a child, hard menial labor and improper lifting.

My opinion in short for those haters of long text blocks, Its alright, in the proper circumstances to physically discipline but never beat.

 

[Saelune]

If you really want to hurt your kids. Make them love you. Then being dissapointed in what they did will really hurt.
Violence just breeds spite.

 

[Warlord211]

I'd personally rather take the pain of the whippings my parents would give me when I acted up when I was a kid, then be yelled at by them now. I think some amount of disciplinary violence is necessary when raising your children. I know I'm better for it. This 15 year old I know is a self entitled little shit stain. His parents always treated him like a little prince, never laid a finger on him, now he smokes pot every day and just an all around asshole. At least my parents taught me my actions would have consequences and I couldn't act like a little brat forever.

 

[Tsaba]

snip

I wouldn't call a slap on the ass violence or a beating, it is effective method of teaching a consequence in this case pain for the actions they performed. If they don't receive a negative consequence for their actions some people/children/hell spawned demons won't know how to act in certain situations or consider the consequences of their actions.

EDIT:
Do I think a spanking is warranted for everything? no.

Do I think that spanking should be allowed for parents to discipline their child, to help shape and mold the them to not think solely of themselves but of others and/or of the consequences of their actions? Yes.

 

[Keith Reedy]

If you really want to hurt your kids. Make them love you. Then being dissapointed in what they did will really hurt.
Violence just breeds spite.

I agree with this I would rather be punched in the head than have my parents give me that "I'm disappointed in you" line and the look oh the look.

 

[jedizero]

*snip*

*snip*

Both of you?
STFU.
Steve, you have found something you believe works for you. However, Sillybear is offering what seems to be valid evidence.

Not *all* psychological studies are geared towards making false evidence to use as ammunition against a medium of art, and it is a logical fallacy to believe this is true. Its akin to saying 'Penguins are black and white' 'Zebras are black and white' 'Therefore penguins and zebras are the same thing'

You're applying it here in 'this psychological study is full of bullshit and false evidence.' 'therefore *all* psychological studies are full of bullshit and false evidence.'

I'm not saying that you have to change, I'm just saying: Hey, what if he's right? What if there is something else that works? And if it doesn't, hey, you spent a few minutes listening to another human being expressing his/her opinion, there're worse things that can be done with your time.

SillyBear, you are coming in, thumping a 'parents guide', that doesn't exist. There is no supreme uber parents guide that can be used for all children, and all situations. That doesn't exist, *can't* exist.

Your children appear to be working perfectly fine without physical punishments. That's *great* to hear. I'm glad for you and your children. However, what is perfect for you and your children might not be perfect for another persons children. Children, just like people the world over, all are different.

The irony here is that *both* of you are acting like children.

 

[LarenzoAOG]

My parents weren't afraid to tear my ass up, and I think I'm a better person for it, the fact is by age 6 kids stop giving a shit about time-outs, if you teach a child that if he does soething wrong the outcome will be a blistered ass, he'll shape up fast, works on dogs too.

HA! Captha: function child

 

[Choppaduel]

Lol cycle of violence. Only if you knew how much I truly hated my father.

And my sister. She is dead so I think she cares very little about my feelings towards her

What do you find amusing there exactly?

That doesn't really answer my question, which is: Do you, in reflection, resent your sister?

I apologize if I'm getting to personal, you are one of the few people here who was severely beaten as a child and I'm curious about your experience.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

you bet your silly ass my kids will get a smack on the ass more than once, kids don't have common sense, they aren't born with it, it's lessons learned and if they do something beyond without a doubt retarded you bet your ass i'm going to explain to them why i just smacked that ass harder with my hand than a bat ever could

believe me growing up getting that smack to the ass was one of the most concious things on my mind daily, it became such a thing to think about that logic was burned into my skull because of it.

I don't think it should applied all the time, most things can be explained with a solid voice and good word choice, but sometimes that firm hand to the ass is highly necessary to get a kid to say "fuck that, i'm not doing that ever again"

hopefully being firm on their childhood i'll be able to be lenient as hell when they become a teenager, if not, i'll just use other methods...