The point of Avatar, why empathy is important and why humans are like cancer

[brainslurper]

what the fuck is an empathy

 

[Lavi]

Forgive me if I'm misreading your nonsensical aggregation of words there but, are you saying that the trees on earth are all cells that form a sentient being? Are you trying to tell me that trees have feelings and thought?

The Navi view nature much as some people here do. Thus, the trees are the same in their meaning.

 

[Internet Kraken]

Holy shit, I left for like 10 minutes and a whole lot of people replied. I'll try to answer all topics brought up here.

People say that chopping down a tree isn't bad because it has no emotions. I say that chopping a tree down is just as bad as chopping a human's legs off and leaving him/her to bleed to death.

I'm sorry, but are you serious? This is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard. I mean really, you think it's wrong to chop down trees? What the hell?

okay that was majorly overstated, I'll admit, but for the TREE it's the same, albeit if the person was given major painkillers. And yes, I do think it is wrong to chop down trees, as long as we don't need to do it. If we need to for shelter or firewood, fine by me, but we overuse paper to a ridiculous extent.

I'm sorry, but you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Trees are a renewable resource. The amount of clear cutting that occurs has been greatly reduced, and many efforts have been made to preserve and replenish forests. Trees are the least of our concerns in terms of resource consumption. What the hell do we use paper for that is unnecessary? The reason we use any resource is because we need to do so in order to preserve our current standard of living. I'll admit that we do squander many resources, but paper isn't one of them.

We have computers, we don't need nearly as much paper as we use.

What the hell does this even mean?! How are computers a replacement for paper?! This statement baffles me.

 

[S-Unleashed]

I feel bad for the countless animals slaughtered to keep me fed for the past twenty-odd years. However, the will to survive is far stronger than the remorse I feel for their death. Their sacrifice was necessary for my survival or betterment, and I have since rationalized this in order to sooth my regrets.

Humans aren't cancer (okay, some are), we're just self-serving, just like every other creature on the planet. Don't think for a second that your faithful dog wouldn't eat you in a second if its survival came into question.

This is what's on my mind.

 

[r0manz]

Firstly, dog tastes horrible. I couldn't eat a cat because they are just so cute and fluffy.

But now to a point, let's look at what makes a good movie:
-Good plot
-Good characters
-Character advancement
-Lack of romance is nice
-Humans that act like Humans

Avatar only has 1 of the above, good characters, and only 1. The bad-ass space marine Colonel. Everyone else is a bland person who's entire life is a nice little straight line on either side of the coin that is morality.
You have the corporate douchebag that Americans love to hate.
Your nice little attractive (if it was Human) love interest
Some tree huggers.
Some Jarheads.

Everything else is scrapped though, the story is laughably ripped off, the acting is passable at best laughable at worst. Some of the characters some characters randomly do things totally against their personality (that military chick from LOST), I spotted the love interest the first time I saw that chick Na'vi, and none of the people act like people!

I felt that the message the movie tried to leave with me was that nature isn't bad, which brought to my attention how much I hate nature. The bugs, the annoying animals, the diseases, etc. Perhaps I was left with the wrong message but it seemed to me like Avatar was trying to tell me that we lost our Humanity when we started cutting down trees. That is just nonsense.

Now the technology behind Avatar, I must admit, is impressive. I hate those 3D movies though, they hurt my eyes.

 

[Ocelot GT]

there's a difference between empathy and survival.

Do you think a lion has a boo when it eats a zebra?

*crying* "oh im so f****g upset" *takes another bite out of the zebra* ;..; nom nom nom

The irony of avatar, which makes ppl look mean cruel is that the hero is a human, and the entire movie was made by humans for humans

 

[kotorfan04]

I would say we are more like a parasite, we take what we can and give nothing in return.

Parasites are not aware of the damage they do to their hosts. Parasites do not try to keep their hosts alive. Parasites do not think of their host as anything other than food. Humans are not like that. We see Earth as far more than a pile of resources, hence why there is now a greater urge in modern society to preserve our planet.

Humans didnt start trying to preserve the planet untill it started dieing. We were not aware of the damage being done untill now. We are parasites.[/quote]

Not to be a jerk but the average parasite such as a tapeworm really doesn't want to kill off its host, after all once the host dies so does their food supply. Now sometimes a great mass of parasites will be in the same host and overly tax him leading to the death of the host organism. So I agree with Mr. Awesome.

 

[Mcupobob]

We have computers, we don't need nearly as much paper as we use.

What the hell does this even mean?! How are computers a replacement for paper?! This statement baffles me.

Wouldn't making computes be more expensive and use up more unrenewable resources?

sry about spelling btw/

 

[Versagen]

First of all, OP, who appointed you to sit on your high horse and spout this crap? Seriously, what's up with the people who run around calling all of humanity viruses? Stop stealing lines from the Matrix, stop trying to take your morals from a movie, and look at yourself. If we have the blood of nature on our hands then so do you.

What are you eating? If plants are things to be worshiped and animals all must be saved and preserved then what do you snack on?

And for the empathy thing - people with no empathy whatsoever are called sociopaths. A lot of them become killers because they can not relate to people, they feel nothing. The majority of people have empathy. Even if they run around murdering trees. Hell, even if they kill someone they can still have empathy.

I cheerfully eat both meat and plant matter, but I still cry like a baby whenever I see a Human Society commercial. And I'm sure that a few hundred million people on this planet feel the same way. Just because we're not out there worshiping trees doesn't mean that we have no empathy.

okay that was majorly overstated, I'll admit, but for the TREE it's the same, albeit if the person was given major painkillers. And yes, I do think it is wrong to chop down trees, as long as we don't need to do it. If we need to for shelter or firewood, fine by me, but we overuse paper to a ridiculous extent. We have computers, we don't need nearly as much paper as we use.

Except for the fact that plants and humans experience pain differently. Even hooked up to the best painkillers a human would feel pain eventually. And when you cut a tree down it dies. Its life is over. A human can live. A human can learn how to use a wheelchair, can learn how to walk on their hands, or even get prosthetic legs.

A tree can't. That's why your comparison is laughable at best.

That being said, have you seen an office? I used to work at a company that was run almost entirely by computers. And we used paper up like you wouldn't believe. Everything needed to be printed, mailed, copied, faxed, and if you messed something up you had to fix what you needed to fix with the computer and print out an entire new package - and a package has about sixty sheets of paper.

We still need paper. And unless you're living an entirely paper-free life then maybe you should look to yourself before ranting to us on a gaming site.

 

[Jark212]

I hate it when people do this...

It's true that some people are douche bags who don't care about anything but themselves, but the majority are decent people. It's an insult to say that all Humans are blood thirsty slash and burning creations that will kill and destroy everything we come across. If you haven't noticed many World Governments are working to protect the environment and to preserve endangered species, for example Antarctica is rich in metals and minerals but it's protected...

Your logic is flawed, and is an insult to the Human race...

 

[FluffyNeurosis]

Yeah, damn those Brazilian peasants cutting down the rain forest to live in decadent luxury and excess! blah blah whitey is the devil blah blah
What else is new?

 

[DocBalance]

OP:Here's the funny thing about fiction....it's not real. I'm honestly getting sick on people either ragging on or praising Avatar's "message". If what I've heard is true, Avatar is an Anti-war, pro-nature, pro-communisim, pro-capitalism, pro-war, pantheistic, monotheistic mess. Having seen it, it's none of these things. It's a work of fiction. It's a movie. The message is heavily up to interpretation. Let's all stop pretending that there is some kind of over-arching "true message" in a work of fiction. There may be an intended message, but as I've seen nothing from James Cameron stating "this is a movie about environmentalism and how humans are cancer" then I'm gonna have to mark your interpretation as just that: An interpretation.

 

[Lyri]

The point with avatar is that the trees weren't just trees, they were a network that the natives connected with on a spiritual, and apparently also on a physical level.

They weren't just trees in avatar, unlike the trees we have on earth.

That's one of things I hate about Avatar. The connection between the Navi and nature is completley unrealistic.

Just like how the Humans connected to the Navi, or how mountains floated. There wasn't alot of realism in that film, so what that one little snippet made you rage is beyond me.
It's symbolic of all the other tribal peoples out there, who believe themselves to be intouch with Gaia. Whether it be through touching a tree or turning moss & insects into paste and ingesting it.

 

[Internet Kraken]

The point with avatar is that the trees weren't just trees, they were a network that the natives connected with on a spiritual, and apparently also on a physical level.

They weren't just trees in avatar, unlike the trees we have on earth.

That's one of things I hate about Avatar. The connection between the Navi and nature is completley unrealistic.

Just like how the Humans connected to the Navi, or how mountains floated. There wasn't alot of realism in that film, so what that one little snippet made you rage is beyond me.
It's symbolic of all the other tribal peoples out there, who believe themselves to be intouch with Gaia. Whether it be through touching a tree or turning moss & insects into paste and ingesting it.

My problem with it is that it takes that spiritual connection and makes it a physical one. When such a connection is real and can be directly observed, it just feels ridiculous that the humans are blatantly ignoring it.

And the floating mountains were also ridiculous.

 

[Zombus]

not to get too involved or anything but i believe the term cartesian applies to humans viewpoint on other species/nature/etc in that we see ourselves as removed and/or superior to the other denizens of earth

 

[r0manz]

OP:Here's the funny thing about fiction....it's not real. I'm honestly getting sick on people either ragging on or praising Avatar's "message". If what I've heard is true, Avatar is an Anti-war, pro-nature, pro-communisim, pro-capitalism, pro-war, pantheistic, monotheistic mess. Having seen it, it's none of these things. It's a work of fiction. It's a movie. The message is heavily up to interpretation. Let's all stop pretending that there is some kind of over-arching "true message" in a work of fiction. There may be an intended message, but as I've seen nothing from James Cameron stating "this is a movie about environmentalism and how humans are cancer" then I'm gonna have to mark your interpretation as just that: An interpretation.

Are you referring to James Cameron movies or fiction in general? Because if you're referring to fiction in general I highly recommend you read the Dune series, all of Isaac Asimov's books, watch Gran Torino, and a few others I could name if you wish. You'll see that fiction can have an 'message' in it.

 

[Lyri]

My problem with it is that it takes that spiritual connection and makes it a physical one. When such a connection is real and can be directly observed, it just feels ridiculous that the humans are blatantly ignoring it.

And the floating mountains were also ridiculous.

I have seen people who had never seen a cow before, it's not so ridiculous to assume that this guy in his steel tower wouldn't care about the trees.

 

[DocBalance]

OP:Here's the funny thing about fiction....it's not real. I'm honestly getting sick on people either ragging on or praising Avatar's "message". If what I've heard is true, Avatar is an Anti-war, pro-nature, pro-communisim, pro-capitalism, pro-war, pantheistic, monotheistic mess. Having seen it, it's none of these things. It's a work of fiction. It's a movie. The message is heavily up to interpretation. Let's all stop pretending that there is some kind of over-arching "true message" in a work of fiction. There may be an intended message, but as I've seen nothing from James Cameron stating "this is a movie about environmentalism and how humans are cancer" then I'm gonna have to mark your interpretation as just that: An interpretation.

Are you referring to James Cameron movies or fiction in general? Because if you're referring to fiction in general I highly recommend you read the Dune series, all of Isaac Asimov's books, watch Gran Torino, and a few others I could name if you wish. You'll see that fiction can have an 'message' in it.

I've read Dune, and a bit of Asimov. I'm saying the "message" is rather subjective. Until the author himself states a message, you really can't be sure what the message is. Like I said, I've read so many different opinions on avatar that if they're all right, it's the most schizophrenic movie ever created. I'll use one of my favorite examples: Fahrenheit 451, by Ray Bradbury. Bradbury himself has stated that it carries a message of anti-censorship. No duh, right? However, I've read summations by people who think the main hero is actually the villain, and that the book is advocating complete censorship because if so much as one nut slips through the cracks, all hell breaks loose. Those are two HIGHLY conflicting messages.

 

[Internet Kraken]

My problem with it is that it takes that spiritual connection and makes it a physical one. When such a connection is real and can be directly observed, it just feels ridiculous that the humans are blatantly ignoring it.

And the floating mountains were also ridiculous.

I have seen people who had never seen a cow before, it's not so ridiculous to assume that this guy in his steel tower wouldn't care about the trees.

We have discovered a connection that bonds all of the creatures on Pandora in a literal sense. Something like this is completley unheard of. And we're just going to blow it up.

Yeah that sounds ridiculous to me.

 

[Turtleboy1017]

Humans sort of are like cancer - described as such by a certain Agent.........

No

That is the worst way to describe the human race. It's completely inaccurate, and I can't believe that some people here that speech and actually agree with it.

Humans are not like a disease. We're far more complex than that.

I agree... at least a disease will kill whatever it has infected, and allow all of it to eventually be consumed by other bacteria, and perhaps feed another animal as well.

Humans in recent years have indeed started to realize the damage they have been doing. The pioneering attitude is slowly being replaced by one more concerned by the damage we have been doing to our natural resources over time.

HOWEVER, the one thing that I hate THE MOST about the whole human/resource argument is the fact that we are so god damned WASTEFUL. Honestly, the amount of food and resources we simply WASTE makes me far angrier than the fact that we have trashed a river or leveled a forest. I am glad that we have the ability to see we are doing harm, and making national parks, and efforts to bring back what we have harmed. However, it just does not compare to what we waste. I can't speak for other countries, but I know for a fact that most developed countries (America, England, France, Germany, w.e) waste amazing amounts of food.

Restaurants will toss food that goes unconsumed. Households will throw away food they don't want to finish. We leave the water on when we brush our teeth, and throw away wooden chopsticks every time we eat sushi. We toss books into trashcans, and much too many people throw trash that is not biodegradable into the dumps. I know that people can't be completely blamed for this entirely, but the system in which we use these resources is so broken sometimes it just seems silly. I wouldn't mind leveling a forest, and then trying to bring it back, if we had actually USED all the wood well. Buuuut perhaps 5 percent of it was lost in transit, 10 percent was used to photocopy an ass, 15 percent on newspapers that will go into the trash with 0 effort to recycle, and... well you get my drift.

I agree that Humans in general are TRYING. We have realized that perhaps this world is not so limitless as earlier believed, and that preserving wildlife should be practiced more persistently. The huge difference between an animal and a human is the amount of resources we use. Millions of years of evolution, natural selection, and species isolation has created a balance. A balance where a cat eats a bird, shits out dirt that a worm can feed on, and than have that worm be eaten by the bird. A cheesy "Circle of Life" if you will. Humans have gone and thrown a giant rock at that. We can go where we want, when we want, introduce new species to places they should never be, and just generally fuck shit up, for example using the dirt that was supposed to feed the worm to fill bags of fertilizer, therefore denying the bird of its worm and the cat of its bird. (EXTREMELY simplified btw, but I don't want to type up a huge food chain and how we affect every part of it.)