The real problem with sexism

[dtgenshiken7]

Probably wasn't expecting quite the reaction he got, I'd say most likely a 14 yo with nothing to do, and hoping a post with a lot of replies automatically gets respect, he sees a hot-button issue (actually, he used one that has been done to death and revived so many times the original topic and/or solution has been lost in piles of random crap), but was't quite expecting the incredible amount of cynicism he got from (tempted to say us but I'll say you guys for the point of this).

Really, I'd say it'll be either a long time, or he ain't never coming back here. In short, Yes. Yes he was new here. And apparently the rest of the internet.

 

[Jenvas1306]

Is it sexism if I get something down from a shelf for a small woman? Cause I'm a girl too, just that I'm tall. Recently a small guy asked me to get him something in my local supermarket, cause it was out of his reach (happens if you're just little above 3feet).
But well, when carrying something home from there, some (male) help would be neat. Men just tend to be stronger, which has to do with the ammount of testosterone and a higher muscle density and more muscle mass.
Both things have biological reasons, but mentally men and women are simply equal.

If I wasnt bored currently, this would be to lame to repeat...

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

Oooooh, a gender topic. Now my better judgement says stay the f*** away before you get humiliated...but I'm stronger now. I can do this!

Ok...

I'm not sure that that's a thing that happens. I've virtually never been asked to do something "because I'm male", it's often because I'm taller or stronger. Whether or not this is associated with the requester's gender is irrelevant, although naturally girls are more likely to need to ask someone else to lift a heavy object (COME ON, IT'S SCIENCE). The closest thing I can think of that may actually exist is females who take a hard stance on any sexism yet enjoy the benefits of chivalry knowing that it is gender-based preferential treatment (that said, there are no negatives and males have to initiate it for it to happen), and in gaming, the duality of needing more females in games but also for some reason not wanting to show them dying or debase them with the juvenile shit male characters go through (the number of games with special points, combos or shots that involve the penis is frankly shameful). As for the former, don't care (maybe it's a little hypocritical but there's no pressure either way), and as for the latter, equal treatment is the only cure, whatever that may involve.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

So that was a scary read. I'm going to go listen to some soothing music now.

 

[Colour Scientist]

You must have a pretty sheltered life if your biggest problem with sexism is people being inconsistent about when they want help getting things down from high shelves.

 

[disgruntledgamer]

For starters you shouldn't be going around hitting everyone who mouths off to you anyway, regardless if he's male or female. If I were to go around and punch everyone who was being a prick I'd never stop.

If someone is attacking someone else that's a different story, but there is a thing called reasonable force. You're going to have to use more force to stop a 200 pound man than say a 110 pound woman, this is just common sense.

As for the equality thing, I think all women should have equal rights to men, however when the ship goes down her a$$ better be next to mine.

 

[Undeadpool]

Well done completely misrepresenting what feminism is (ironically about as bad as most feminazis do). To make a long, complex issue short:

Misrepresenting feminism: WOMEN THINK THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO DO EVERYTHING MEN DO, EVEN OUTSIDE THEIR BIOLOGICAL LIMITATIONS!! (in this case: muscle mass)

Actual feminism: Women make excellent soldiers (and superior snipers) due to their increased tolerance for muscle pain and discomfort (among other reasons), they should be allowed to join the armed forces.

Her statement was that women were just as capable in combat as men. Given that at that point neither of us had any combat training or experience we should be equally able to defend ourselves (from her statement), yet she hides behind me because I am a man. We weren't that different size wise, so you can't go with the usual statement that men are larger and therefor better suited to combat.

I understand why she did it, I am not a dunce, but by her doing it she shows the hypocrisy inherent in such statements. I think we need to embrace our differences and get over this whole rigid equality thing. I think we should be treated as equals, I don't think we should ignore our own personal strengths and weaknesses. I think women would make better snipers as they are more limber and tend to be smaller, this means they can get themselves into tighter places and stay there for longer periods. Meanwhile in a fist fight men are better suited due to size and strength differences. This doesn't mean there aren't exceptions to the rule, but that is kind of the point isn't it? Some people are better suited to other jobs, stop making generalizations on both sides of the fence.

Oh god guys, you're killing me here. Seriously, do you do stand up? Please let me know when the first intergender boxing matches or MMA fights will occur; would pay money to see that.

...I can't tell if that's a strawman or if you just entirely missed the point.

snip

I think this sums up my reply really well. I have had women ask me for help more times than I can count for things they could really do themselves but are just to lazy to do. I have also noticed that women always get preference on relaxing jobs. I used to work in as a IT assistant and the second any physical labor came up and a woman didn't want to do it I would have to drop my job to go do hers and 90% of the time it wasn't cause it was to heavy they just didn't want to and would claim it is to difficult without even attempting.

But ya this topic has been done to death as others have said this is the sorta things where threads about sexism towards guys tend to spawn from.

Well done completely misrepresenting what feminism is (ironically about as bad as most feminazis do). To make a long, complex issue short:

Misrepresenting feminism: WOMEN THINK THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO DO EVERYTHING MEN DO, EVEN OUTSIDE THEIR BIOLOGICAL LIMITATIONS!! (in this case: muscle mass)

Actual feminism: Women make excellent soldiers (and superior snipers) due to their increased tolerance for muscle pain and discomfort (among other reasons), they should be allowed to join the armed forces.

Sorry but I think women deserve a little credit they are not so weak they cannot lift a few boxes that weigh less than 5 pounds over a couple feet. Everything I said was from personal experience in things that have happened to me. I mean I am not ridiculous and if a slight person needed help with a few 20 pound boxes I would not judge them or not help them. If something is decently heavy I get it, it might be a bit much that's cool I don't mind helping out but at the same time if you can do something yourself you really should.

That being the case: you had some absolute crap management as I too was speaking from personal experience from having never known a woman who hid behind her gender beyond high school.

I think this sums up my reply really well. I have had women ask me for help more times than I can count for things they could really do themselves but are just to lazy to do. I have also noticed that women always get preference on relaxing jobs. I used to work in as a IT assistant and the second any physical labor came up and a woman didn't want to do it I would have to drop my job to go do hers and 90% of the time it wasn't cause it was to heavy they just didn't want to and would claim it is to difficult without even attempting.

But ya this topic has been done to death as others have said this is the sorta things where threads about sexism towards guys tend to spawn from.

Well done completely misrepresenting what feminism is (ironically about as bad as most feminazis do). To make a long, complex issue short:

Misrepresenting feminism: WOMEN THINK THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO DO EVERYTHING MEN DO, EVEN OUTSIDE THEIR BIOLOGICAL LIMITATIONS!! (in this case: muscle mass)

Actual feminism: Women make excellent soldiers (and superior snipers) due to their increased tolerance for muscle pain and discomfort (among other reasons), they should be allowed to join the armed forces.

We're not saying this is what feminism is supposed to represent. Literally neither of us even mentioned feminism or alluded to feminism. Only the OP did that. The closest we came to that is me saying "to the OPs point", which is a flimsy basis for such a rebuttal. I was establishing that there is a double standard in play here. It's also establishing that people in our workplaces are making biological assumption and allocating workloads simply based on generalizations about gender that aren't even applicable here, which is sexist. We even explicitly pointed out that it's not outside their biological limitations, and in my case likely less outside theirs than mine in the long run.

Also, what's with the mocking use of cap locks? For someone who was implying a lack of maturity in that other guy, your response certainly doesn't appear to be a bastion of maturity itself.

I'm not always and I use caps to engage in hyperbole and make an exaggerated point. And when someone wants to bring down the entire notion of "sexism", then yes, we are talking about feminism either directly or indirectly. Just because the word itself hasn't been brought up, doesn't mean that's not what's being talked about.

 

[axlryder]

I'm not always and I use caps to engage in hyperbole and make an exaggerated point. And when someone wants to bring down the entire notion of "sexism", then yes, we are talking about feminism either directly or indirectly. Just because the word itself hasn't been brought up, doesn't mean that's not what's being talked about.

Well such use of hyperbole is needless and really only counterproductive. It's not really my place to say what you should and shouldn't do though.

Anyway, I've already established that potential implication is a flimsy basis for such a rebuttal. You conflating two concepts doesn't somehow actually make them identical or interchangeable. It seems like you're just filling in the blanks for yourself and trying to shoehorn my comment's meaning into your own hastily conceived interpretation.

Besides, I've already shown how your rebuttal is off base. My use of sexism in describing my situation is apt. My coworkers are making assumptions/decisions about the allocation of workloads based on predefined gender roles that aren't even appropriate in a given situation. Directly ignoring the subjective nature of the human physical condition in favor of gender stereotypes is sexist. The majority of my comment was a criticism of such sexism and the hypocrisy of my co-workers, thus confirming (at least in my own experience) that this is a problem. There's nothing much else that my comment was intended to convey. Certainly not saying "woman should be made to do everything equally to men, regardless of their biological limitations". That actually directly goes against the spirit of my comment, as I'm specifically saying that, as a man, my physical condition contradicts the stereotypical mold, which is a fact that should be taken into consideration. So why in the world would I say "ALL WOMAN" should do something when I'm specifically bringing up that situations should be viewed on an individualistic basis and not based on generalized perceptions?

I just don't see your criticism as being applicable.

 

[DevilWithaHalo]

Ha! Sure, Men's Rights is a perfectly legitimate movement. Sorry, you don't get any pity, but if it's any consolation I'm embarrassed on your behalf.

But I want your Pity. As the only Feminist MRA in existence I feel I need lots of pity; logically speaking of course. Don't you believe in equal pity for all human kind? Check your privilege man, you have an easier time getting pity, and we need legislation to insure that those less fortunate also get pity.

...I can't tell if that's a strawman or if you just entirely missed the point.

I don't build straw men my good man; I find them rather worthless. I prefer brick; that fucking wolf can't blow them so easily. I really hate it when that damned wolf blows my straw men; it makes me sick! Bricks also don't have points; because points prick people; and no one likes a prick.

 

[Olas]

I can't talk about sexism/feminism anymore. I just... can't.

But I wanted to come here to wish all you brave and persistent people the best of luck in fighting the good fight.

 

[bluerocker]

*Reads thread title*

Oh hey, maybe this'll be interesting and we'll all talk about sexist issues from both sides!

*Reads rest of post*

(I've been wanting to use that gif for a proper and legitimate reason.)

On a more serious side, Welcome to the Escapist, blah blah blah, etc. However, I cannot help but question your waste of your first post on a kind of thread we've all been wanting to forget for some time. Bad first poster. Now would you kindly go into the corner and think about what you've done. Please, we don't need more of this kind of senseless postery here (save for forum games, but those are on purpose.)

snip

Speaking of gifs, those are brilliant, and I will be putting some of them into my gif folder. Nicely done.

 

[NiPah]

Probably wasn't expecting quite the reaction he got, I'd say most likely a 14 yo with nothing to do, and hoping a post with a lot of replies automatically gets respect, he sees a hot-button issue (actually, he used one that has been done to death and revived so many times the original topic and/or solution has been lost in piles of random crap), but was't quite expecting the incredible amount of cynicism he got from (tempted to say us but I'll say you guys for the point of this).

Really, I'd say it'll be either a long time, or he ain't never coming back here. In short, Yes. Yes he was new here. And apparently the rest of the internet.

He made his name on the 19th, made his post on the 19th, and the last time he was active was 8 minutes after said post...
It's clear what he was and what he was doing, 120 posts later and this topic is still getting replies.

 

[Dense_Electric]

ital mutilation and how it's endemic in some cultures. Like the world's fourth most populous country. And it's 86%+ of households that go ahead with it. And how that's scary to me.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/nov/18/female-genital-mutilation-circumcision-indonesia

But, gosh, how's that relevant? Cos one of the reasonings behind this is to curb female sexual urges in order to keep them chaste.

Perhaps I'm a bit late to the party, if we're going to talk about that, I think it's only fair to point out how endemic male genital mutilation is in the world's third most populous country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_circumcision#United_States

Now admittedly, the situation seems to be improving, but the numbers I'm reading are still obscenely high.

 

[Lt._nefarious]

Welcome to the Escapist and I think you should know that if you make a sexism thread well, it'll be messy...

OT: Are the women you work with short? Because women tend to be a bit shorter and it could just be for conveniences sake and not because, y'know, all women are evil and are trying to rape and murder all the good, kind hard working men... Just sayin'...