The REAL Problems With FF13

[Velocity Eleven]

ok, so if I was to rank the main FF games, 1 to 13 (excluding 11, not played it) FF13 would be 8th (of 12)

the thing is this is nothing to do with no towns or (you choose auto-attack all the time) nor about the linearity, but simply the heavy lack of customisable growth...

I seriously think the "no towns" argument is irrelivent, cause what do you need towns for?

 

[DividedUnity]

How about make the chapters relatively the same size instead of having 2 bloated chapters at the end. Also not having to play about 20-30 hours to get to the good part of the game (in my opinion)

 

[Velocity Eleven]

Towns are a major feature of RPGs? Gives the game a more immersive feel, making you feel like you're in another world with real people?

really? I dont care about any of that, for me its all about the ability to level up and customise

Personally i just hate the model of spectacle over substance.

i know what you mean

How about make the chapters relatively the same size instead of having 2 bloated chapters at the end. Also not having to play about 20-30 hours to get to the good part of the game (in my opinion)

I never understood the whole "it gets good by chapter 11" thing, sure the world is more open but you're still doing all the same stuff, its not as if your choices have really expanded

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

My only problem is that Hope still isn't likable...after people said he'd become bearable.

That's the trade-off for the AWESOME factor of Sazh, though.

I also thought the game was better before chapter 11. I'm doing all the Stone missions now. Well, a lot of them anyway. Then moving on with the story...These missions suck...

 

[DividedUnity]

How about make the chapters relatively the same size instead of having 2 bloated chapters at the end. Also not having to play about 20-30 hours to get to the good part of the game (in my opinion)

I never understood the whole "it gets good by chapter 11" thing, sure the world is more open but you're still doing all the same stuff, its not as if your choices have really expanded

Well I thought being given the chance to explore environments that where reasonably open compared to everying before chapter 11 whilsts killing giant monsters was pretty awesome. That said its not that I didnt enjoy the rest of the game.

Ive stopped playing FF13 before I had finished it so I cant really give an opinion on anything after chapter 12

 

[alexelric]

About the no towns part, I think it kinda fits the story, I mean, the l'cie are viewed as terrorists in cocoon society, so A) they are on the run so they can't spend too much time in one place, and B) even if they did most people probably would shoot, slash or run far away on sight so it kinda makes sense you don't get to roam around until you are out of cocoon.

The linearity is another senseless bashing fiesta, I found it as linear as Final fantasy X, it is almost exactly the same where the world opens up only in the final third of the game, before that is a linear path from A to B; the main difference is again history wise: in X the characters where viewed as heroes and everyone was nice to them (well in a general sort of way), while in this one the average opinion of the party is "OMG A TERRORIST THEY GONNA KILL US ALL RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!"

REAL PROBLEMS, the auto attack, i think it cheapens most of the fun out of the battle system, sure, you can go without using it but it's the first goddamn command in the interface so many times you can choose it by mistake. should've been in one of the triggers (like the paradigms) so if you don´t want to use it it wouldn't be on the way of the menu.

Also on a more personal note, Hope, Damn that kid annoys me, sorry square enix but I think it's about time you drop the whole "emo kid looking for vengeance" act. the rest of the cast I loved (yes even Vanille, she's perky to the point of cuckoo-lander material but she has a reason to be that way and her character is not that much of a cardboard cutout, besides, shes cute) but Hope can go and cry himself to death on a corner somewhere far away.

 

[Velocity Eleven]

REAL PROBLEMS, the auto attack, i think it cheapens most of the fun out of the battle system, sure, you can go without using it but it's the first goddamn command in the interface so many times you can choose it by mistake. should've been in one of the triggers (like the paradigms) so if you don´t want to use it it wouldn't be on the way of the menu.

Also on a more personal note, Hope, Damn that kid annoys me, sorry square enix but I think it's about time you drop the whole "emo kid looking for vengeance" act. the rest of the cast I loved (yes even Vanille, she's perky to the point of cuckoo-lander material but she has a reason to be that way and her character is not that much of a cardboard cutout, besides, shes cute) but Hope can go and cry himself to death on a corner somewhere far away.

The auto-attack works in this game because the game is meant to be about juggling the paradigms, if you were made to select individual attacks everytime it would get far too hectic... especially when you consider the pure speed of the battles

as for Hope, am i the only person who had never gotten "annoyed" by a character, the closest i got to annoyed was Zell...

 

[kurupt87]

FF, to me, are about story and the world and characters in it.

XIII does it the wrong way, it bludgeons you with CGI and cutscenes, which tell me why I should care about these people, but I don't ever get to know them, so I don't care. What I mean by this is the difference between being told what somebody is like (CGI, cutscenes), and meeting them and judging them myself (cutscenes initiated by the player, talking to people and the other party members etc).

I think a main reason for this (and why I didn't like XII) is because the game doesn't have a protagonist, it has a group of people. A good story always has a protagonist, or many protagonists. None of the characters are deep enough to be called a protagonist in XIII.

The game is split so rigidly between storytelling and anything player related that the people under my control seemed unrelated to the story.

The gameplay, to me, seemed to be there purely to split up the story.

 

[Velocity Eleven]

FF, to me, are about story and the world and characters in it.

XIII does it the wrong way, it bludgeons you with CGI and cutscenes, which tell me why I should care about these people, but I don't ever get to know them, so I don't care. What I mean by this is the difference between being told what somebody is like (CGI, cutscenes), and meeting them and judging them myself (cutscenes initiated by the player, talking to people and the other party members etc).

I think a main reason for this (and why I didn't like XII) is because the game doesn't have a protagonist, it has a group of people. A good story always has a protagonist, or many protagonists. None of the characters are deep enough to be called a protagonist in XIII.

The game is split so rigidly between storytelling and anything player related that the people under my control seemed unrelated to the story.

The gameplay, to me, seemed to be there purely to split up the story.

I thought FF13 had one of the best stories in the series

 

[Shoggoth2588]

Towns in past FF titles have had specialties, ya know? One town in FF-VIII featured the Ultima draw point. Gold Saucer was the mini-game mecca of Final Fantasy VI. The more towns I've been in in FF-III, the more Magic I've come across [and advanced weapons/armor too]

The shops/ item system of FFXIII has you unlock previously common items such as ethers and soft. Phoenix Down can't even be purchased. Like with Final Fantasy-VIII, monster battles yield no GIL but, with the drop rates I've been encountering, and the price tags attached to many drop items, finding GIL is much more work...but for much less reward.

Another problem I've had is the level limitations placed on you, the character, by the game. As I've griped in previous threads, I've gotten stuck on various boss and non-boss encounters despite being as leveled/ developed as the game allows me to be. In the cases of Cid Raynes, end-of-chapter-8-Eidelon and, end-of-chapter...9 I think Fal-Cie, I had to lose 10+ fights before getting lucky enough to pass those segments and, as stated, as developed as I was allowed to be.

I am currently 9 hours, 15 minutes into a Final Fantasy VIII run and, after the fire cavern trial, have ground my way to a level 20 Squall with 100 Blizzaga, working on Firaga and, Thundaga. I've also got about 5 hours into the DS port/remake of Final Fantasy-III which I am less committed to but, still having fun with.

As for Dissidia [which I recently picked up] it's not bad for a fighting game but the magic users are pissing me off.

 

[kurupt87]

I thought FF13 had one of the best stories in the series

The story, on an intellectual/philosophical level was indeed very good, it makes you think. However, a good story needs good characters and (if fantasy) a good world.

While I liked most of the characters and the world was academically and visually very interesting/good, the game never actually made me, the player, feel involved with either the characters or world, which is crucial in telling a story using a video game.

 

[alexelric]

The auto-attack works in this game because the game is meant to be about juggling the paradigms, if you were made to select individual attacks everytime it would get far too hectic... especially when you consider the pure speed of the battles

as for Hope, am i the only person who had never gotten "annoyed" by a character, the closest i got to annoyed was Zell...

Yes, but I find the battles more attractive if you ditch the auto attack system and go for a personal strategy, sure is a little harder but you get the satisfaction for actually being able to pull off the strategy(specially BECAUSE the frantic speed), I'm not saying the auto attack shouldn't be there just that it should not be the first choice, other games (like the SMT series) map the auto attack in a different button and it works out nicely, as it is is just bothersome interface option that get's in the way (for me at least).

As for the characters thing, well it's different for everybody I guess, when I play a game (specially an RPG) I like to relate to the characters and their views about the world they live in, in the case of Hope, it's hard to relate to him when even as the history progresses and he is out of reasons for being all depressive and whiny about he still keeps being the same angsty *****... mind you I'm at the end of chapter 10 so maybe he gets better later on but honestly I doubt it.

 

[Zukonub]

I thought FF13 had one of the best stories in the series

The story, on an intellectual/philosophical level was indeed very good, it makes you think. However, a good story needs good characters and (if fantasy) a good world.

While I liked most of the characters and the world was academically and visually very interesting/good, the game never actually made me, the player, feel involved with either the characters or world, which is crucial in telling a story using a video game.

meh. It involved me in the characters, so that was enough. I do wish we got more of the world though... If they gave us more freedom in Cocoon, many more people could have sympathized with the characters. tbh SE needs to hire new level designers.

 

[DarkPanda XIII]

..Hookay, I hope I don't get punched for this...

RPGs need the ideal towns to create a number of storylines, possibly tell more about each character you have as well as create a few side-quests. Set things up so that anytime you return to the city, something happens. etc.

There were many things that indeed bothered me, which I could be made fun of for the fact that I lasted as long as Yahtzee when it first came out. Got to the first touch of the actual plot, and said.....no...and I didn't want to go further.

Really, it already felt like the weakest, mostly because I had less action time than game time. My roommate started to laugh when she walked in and saw me watching one of the many cutscenes and said. "So, how's the game so far?"

And my reply was "...I'll let you know when I hit a button"

And really, I do like a few of the characters, Vanille most of all because I do like the perky types. Snow also started to catch my attention. Lightning, Hope, and Sazh didn't really get my attention (though the moment I saw the chocobo chick popping out of Sazh's head, I could only say 'you gotta be kidding me').

I mean, really....One of the best plot I've seen was Final Fantasy 8 (okay, I haven't actually gone through most of the older ones, so bear with me), best battle system was Final Fantasy 10, the best group overall that I liked was FF12 (only person I disliked was Vaan, but Balthier sort of overshadowed him, and Basch was a fav strong guy). Another fav was FF9 (and at this point I'm suddenly realizing that everything I like is pretty much opposite from most people I know)

Final Fantasy XIII is pretty much taking all the good stuff from the other games and putting them together..HOWEVER, it seems like the person that was doing the research took the mediocre stuff by accident and thought they were the good parts.

So yeah...Mediocre that was very cinematic.

 

[alexelric]

I mean, really....One of the best plot I've seen was Final Fantasy 8 (okay, I haven't actually gone through most of the older ones, so bear with me), best battle system was Final Fantasy 10, the best group overall that I liked was FF12 (only person I disliked was Vaan, but Balthier sort of overshadowed him, and Basch was a fav strong guy). Another fav was FF9 (and at this point I'm suddenly realizing that everything I like is pretty much opposite from most people I know)

Final Fantasy XIII is pretty much taking all the good stuff from the other games and putting them together..HOWEVER, it seems like the person that was doing the research took the mediocre stuff by accident and thought they were the good parts.

So yeah...Mediocre that was very cinematic.

I'm with you halfways, FF8 had a nice story, not great but nice, the battle system was fantastic in 10, and I have all sorts of problems with the 12, first one being that off all the points of view they could have used to tell that story they choose the outsider/cameraman... I mean, you could kill off Van in the first 15 minutes and there will be no diference at all!. FF9 was almost perfect in my opinion... except for some characters (Quina.. dear lords Quina... WHY!?).

so far, 13 ranks high in my personal favorites by ommission, because doesn't have any deal breaking flaws (in case you are wondering, the draw scheme of FF8 and the gambit/licence system of the 12th make them to go on the bottom of the list)... so, yeah, is an enjoyable game, not the best it could be but certainly not the worst FF ever... that particular place is for FFX-2.

 

[Zukonub]

@People who say any FF game is the 'worst'. Have you played II? An absolutely awful abomination.