The right to be racist , sexist and/or Homophobic *Read in full*

[klasbo]

The problem is when several people of the same racist/sexist/homophobic opinions come together and create a culture around those opinions, because this creates a group of people who either consciously or subconsciously reinforce each others beliefs, often to the point of delusion. A lot of people who are racist/sexist/homophobic are so because they aren't aware of what they are saying is degrading to those on the receiving end, simply because they are in a culture that silently accepts (or sometimes promotes) such action.

So the big question is if sexism/racism/homophobia in groups of people is wrong. And I think the answer here is an obvious yes, given that it impedes the personal and intellectual progress of those on the receiving end (for example not getting the jobs that you are qualified for, for no other reason than your gender/ethnicity).

I would also like to add that not opposing is just as much good as passively accepting. Issues like these won't go away by ignoring them, because it is in that ignorance that these opinions thrive.

 

[Jonluw]

Um, yes?
Don't most people hold this opinion?
You can't give a person jailtime for simply being racist.

Umm... yeah, yeah you can. At least in Britain you can. It's called inciting hatred and it's why you can get arrested for, say, shouting anti-Muslim slurs outside a mosque. It's also why the English Defence League (think the BNP but made up almost entirely of rowdy football fans) was recently banned from going on a protest through a street in London, because it could have caused a disturbance.

These people aren't simply *being* racist though.
They're acting on it.

It's not illegal to want to kill someone. It's illegal to act on the urge.

(Personally, I disagree with the sentiment that it should be illegal to say racist things by the way.
Since in my mind, the idea of freedom of speech is that retarded opinions and ignorance should be fought with reason and education, not censorship.)

Huh, I guess you're right. Though I'll point out that people can say racist things in public, but they have to be careful where they say them. If the police think that violence could arise, either against the racist or against the people the racist is being racist to, then the police have a right to wade in there and pull the bastard out with force.

That seems more reasonable at least.

Wait...
I think this is the first time a discussion I've had on here has concluded at all (and on good terms, even).
All the other ones have just devolved into flame or ended with one participant leaving.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

The problem is when several people of the same racist/sexist/homophobic opinions come together and create a culture around those opinions, because this creates a group of people who either consciously or subconsciously reinforce each others beliefs, often to the point of delusion. A lot of people who are racist/sexist/homophobic are so because they aren't aware of what they are saying is degrading to those on the receiving end, simply because they are in a culture that silently accepts (or sometimes promotes) such action.

But...if we outlaw large groups of people coming together, spouting ignorant nonsense, and reinforcing each others delusions, internet forums will cease to exist!

 

[A Distant Star]

I grow tired of this whole. "I'm not racist but..." Really when I read this sort of post it really just makes you seem like a bigot hypothetical are such a strong tool for racists to hide behind. Not only does it make you come off as a bigot, it makes you seem very self entitled, and people who play the, I want the right to hate people but I don't want people to hate me in turn really are the worst kind of hypocrites, wanting to criticize entire social groups on the most superficial of shit, and yet, when the quality of the shit they say get's criticized, suddenly they're the ones who's opinions are being oppressed. Because we all have to respect -there- rights, but fuck the rights of ethnic minorities, gays or women. It's disgusting.

Let me make this very clear. You or any one do have every right to be racist, sexist or homophobic. But if your going to express those feelings in a public forum, we have every right to beat you down for being the petulant child that you are. Criticizing someone isn't taking away there right to be a bigot, but complaining about how people who don't just curl up and bow to there every bigoted whim are taking away there rights, is very much calling for there critics to be censored.

It's a weak argument and it shows that you are aware of how weak your position really is, and is so often followed by "I'm fine with women, gays and blacks, your just standing up for freedom of speech." It's a tired argument, I didn't buy it the first time I heard it and I don't buy it the next couple hundred times.

I hate people based on the quality of there character, actions and ideas. Black people can not choose there ethnicity, women can not change there gender with out considerable surgery (And something tells me you would discriminate against them for that if they did.) gay people do not largely choose there orientation (and even if they did I can not see why it should mater) but a person with agency can choose the quality of there character, and racists and homophobes betray themselves as being of poor character indeed. I will for ever value the company of any black lesbian with a thought in her head over any straight white male who's ideas are shallow as a puddle in the Sahara.

Let me make this very very plain. If it's in yours or any ones right to hate an entire social group for what ever superficial reason you deem worthy. But it is in mine or any one ells' right to slap them down for being petulant children.

Go cry some where else, you will find no sympathy here.

*If the tone of my post seems a little off it's because I have edited it quite extensively as per the request of a moderator. She was most polite about it, so I chose to acquiesce.

 

[JdaS]

"Sexe"

Plus your lack of ability to use the ever beloved shift key (I hate it when people forget to capitalize I's where appropriate). Also, you can end a sentence with a "?" you do not have to put a space prior to the "?" and doing so is rather irritating. Actually, on a second read, you seem to do it with a lot of punctuation. I advise you get rid of that little quirk before you ever have to write a formal essay.

Finally, your last statement "Also i have been discriminated against in the past due to my skin color and i don't wish that on anyone." does not really have anything to do with any of your above points, bar acting as a slight disclaimer against being called racist.

Now, your actual point...

Yes, there is something wrong with holding those beliefs. You cannot be charged for it or done for it or anything at all like that. But it is morally wrong. If someone, in this day and age, hates anyone based purely on attributes such as skin colour or sexual orientation then it shows a colossal break in the education system where they grew up, it shows that society has broken down to some degree in that area.

So no, You do not have the right to be racist or homophobic. You do not have the right to, as you put it... (With annoying errors removed)

Racism is,by definition,"disliking or hating another race".

Sexism, is by definition "disliking or hating people of a specific sex".

And lastly Homophobia "hating or disliking a homosexual person".

Actually, homophobia is a bit of a misnomer. Phobia - Fear of. Homophobia - Fear of same-sex relationships (Although amusingly this never seems to apply to two chicks when a guy is involved. Only met one homophobic dude who hated on lesbians) but everyone makes that mistake. Or perhaps it is just that the word has two meanings, one in latin, one more common.

Anyway, I digress.

Now, do I have the right to hate you for who you are based on nothing? No, I do not. You seem to forget, any of the above things will lead to discrimination, from minor things like "I just don't like being around fags" (Let us be honest here, noone of that disposition is going to say homosexual's) which means that person will avoid associating themselves with an entire subset of society for no reason whilst at the same time using derogatory terminology, to major things "Fags should burn because they are an abomination and I should go and burn fags"

TLDR;

No, it is not ok to be racist in your own home. It is not ok to be mildly racist around your friends and only hang around with Black/White/Indian/Chinese people. It is not ok to avoid homosexuals because you have a personal disliking of them. Because the hate or, as you put it, "Dislike" is caused by a lack of education, it is caused by ignorance and fear. It is damaging and a blight upon our society.

That is my view, at least.

Just allow me to grace you with a 5 minute long standing ovation. What should in all honesty be common sense seems to be a view held only by a minority of people.

You're free to think as you damn well please, but if you're willing to dislike/hate/avoid someone purely for being black/white/yellow/brown/magenta/cyan or because they are gay/lesbian/transgender then you are, in my books, a fucking moron.

 

[Da Orky Man]

Um, yes?
Don't most people hold this opinion?
You can't give a person jailtime for simply being racist.

Depressingly enough, yes you can. "Inciting hatred". At least in the UK you can.

 

[zerobudgetgamer]

To quote the immortal words of George Carlin: "I believe I have the right to do anything I please; BUT, if I do something you don't like, I think you have the right to kill me."

Short, sweet, and brilliant.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

snip

Freedom goes both ways. You have the right to be as racist/homophobic/sexist as you want, you also have the right to be criticized/ostracized for your actions.

 

[Woodsey]

Um, yes?
Don't most people hold this opinion?
You can't give a person jailtime for simply being racist.

Umm... yeah, yeah you can. At least in Britain you can. It's called inciting hatred and it's why you can get arrested for, say, shouting anti-Muslim slurs outside a mosque. It's also why the English Defence League (think the BNP but made up almost entirely of rowdy football fans) was recently banned from going on a protest through a street in London, because it could have caused a disturbance.

Um, yes?
Don't most people hold this opinion?
You can't give a person jailtime for simply being racist.

Depressingly enough, yes you can. "Inciting hatred". At least in the UK you can.

That's not the same as simply being a racist.

 

[Jonluw]

Um, yes?
Don't most people hold this opinion?
You can't give a person jailtime for simply being racist.

Depressingly enough, yes you can. "Inciting hatred". At least in the UK you can.

Refer to my post exchange with Orangeban earlier in this thread.

 

[Spritzey]

Live in london myself, pretty sure making racist remarks can very easily get you in trouble with the police. Personally going back to the OP, if I knew someone who chose not to associate themselves with different ethnic, gender orientated groups etc. I myself would very immediately consider that person completely ignorant and thus not even worth my time, it's like a weird form of prejudice in reverse.
Also our notions of free speech are a delusion at best, it's a form of control to make us believe we have this freedom when we do not. My french teacher of a couple years ago, spoke out against school policies to the local MP and got sacked because of it, this is in some ways an example of this ways in which our social standing and the roles we assume mean we generally do not speak what we believe, and when we do we are punished because of it. All in all, the case is very often that we have the freedom to say what is socially acceptable, and people who don't adhere to that are simply branded abnormal.

 

[Grubnar]

Everyone is a little bit racist.

 

[StrixMaxima]

Hatred is contagious. It can only remain dormant for so long, until something political/social/economical bursts the bubble.

I find it strange to even compartmentalize people like that. Color, sexual orientation, race, etc, should not be real factors in this day and age. Why they remain important? Because some people use freedom of belief to keep brewing hatred.

We should actively and consciously fight against our hidden sins, such as prejudice, racism and etc. I do think we can overcome them and eventually become better people.

 

[Soods]

Each one of us have freedom of choice.

Source please! (If you have no idea what i'm talking about, go wikipedia determinism)

On topic: Even though we may not like everyone, (imo) we should strive to like everyone.

...

who am I kidding, I can't really contribute to this conversation.

 

[ThreeWords]

That's all well and good. You have the right to be an arse, and not be punished specifically for it. Just don't expect me to put up with it. I have an equal right to rail at you for being ignorant and stupid.

Interestingly, the definitions I use differ in that mine consist of the idea of 'unreasonable discrimination', as opposed to simple dislike. This is not within your 'rights', in that you are actively abusing people for reasons of race, gender or sexuality. And this i will not tolerate in anyone.

 

[Saraphim]

I hate everyone on the basis of them being human beings. I'm a non-discriminating hater! People should be allowed to hate or love whatever they want provided that they do not act on their feelings.

 

[syrdefi]

I am of course opposed to racism/sexism/homophobia, but I support people having the right to "hate speech"

Mostly because I know of people who consider "racist" to mean "someone who once made a less-than-positive statement about a non-white person."

We have our own right to dismiss ignorant statements, but I would never want them to be forcibly silenced.

 

[CrazyGirl17]

While I understand people's right to an opinion... I dislike it when people use it to mistreat others. I believe in having some limits after all... but that's just me.

Um, yes?
Don't most people hold this opinion?
You can't give a person jailtime for simply being racist.

Umm... yeah, yeah you can. At least in Britain you can. It's called inciting hatred and it's why you can get arrested for, say, shouting anti-Muslim slurs outside a mosque. It's also why the English Defence League (think the BNP but made up almost entirely of rowdy football fans) was recently banned from going on a protest through a street in London, because it could have caused a disturbance.

...Really? Maybe I should move to the UK sometime...

 

[RagTagBand]

Hell yeah, My version of free speech extends much further than is currently accepted by society.

I firmly believe that people should be able to honestly express their views, regardless of how disgusting those views may be, so that A. An accurate view of where humanity is on the moral progression exists and B. We can tackle those moral hindrances appropriately and, above all, directly.

Racism, for example, is not defeated by pretending it doesn't exist or hiding it away, or stopping people expressing it...much in the same way cancer doesn't disappear if you stop acknowledging you have it.

Do you hold what is commonly thought of as racist views? GREAT, tell me about them, so I can intellectually spank you, informing you of your errors and others like you of your errors.

 

[Evelynia]

In my experience, most people will on some level discriminate against a variety of people based on stereotypes, including everything from fashion to economic status in addition to race and orientation. Most people are decent and won't act any differently towards anybody based on these biases, but it's kind of hard to stop people from having them.