The RPG Trio, is the agility character gimp?
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I always thought it was always:
Warrior- dumb, strong, slow, and durable
Rogue- Fast, smart, skill based, weak, and bad in direct combat
Mage- Moderate intelligence, most difficult to play as in direct combat, but overall most powerful if leveled up properly.
I usually prefer the rogue, or the mage (Brains over Brawn FTW!)
Warrior- dumb, strong, slow, and durable
Rogue- Fast, smart, skill based, weak, and bad in direct combat
Mage- Moderate intelligence, most difficult to play as in direct combat, but overall most powerful if leveled up properly.
I usually prefer the rogue, or the mage (Brains over Brawn FTW!)
Agility characters tend to be the strongest for me. For those of you who have played KH2, I find the most useful abilities to be the ones that let me either a) recover from a hit OR b)allow me to dodge or block incoming hits, as both sets of abilities leave the enemy exposed after their attack, allowing me to hit hard and fast. The most prominent battle I can think of is against Sephiroth, I tried like 15 times to kill him with brute force, yet I only ended up winning because he could never get in chain attacks because I recovered and the other half of the time I block-countered his attacks.
Another game I use agility in is Infamous/Prototype, as I find quick and unblockable attacks to be the most effective way to win in terms of health lost.
Another game I use agility in is Infamous/Prototype, as I find quick and unblockable attacks to be the most effective way to win in terms of health lost.
Actually, the classes are pretty well balanced in Dragon Age. On most difficulties, ALL types of characters are great at dying a lot.
The trend seems to be that in a game based around the stealth/sneaking/agility (e.g. Splinter Cell, Assassin's Creed), games in which you don't have the option to choose to play differently, the agility/stealth guy is ridiculously good.
However, in games where you can choose to play with different skills, the agility guy usually stinks in direct combat, which you always wind up getting in to. Sure, in games like KOTOR I/II, Mass Effect, etc., you *can* play the stealth guy, and you *can* beat the game, but there are really only two outcomes: One, the way the game is played is so similar between the classes that it really doesn't matter which one you pick, or two, the game is undeniably biased towards the lowest common denominator Beefy McGee strength characters.
And what about the first person shooters? Imagine in Call of Duty you're standing up on a building when someone playing as an assassin runs up the wall, stabs you in the neck, and throws your corpse off of the side.
... Actually, Infinity Ward should get on this pronto.
However, in games where you can choose to play with different skills, the agility guy usually stinks in direct combat, which you always wind up getting in to. Sure, in games like KOTOR I/II, Mass Effect, etc., you *can* play the stealth guy, and you *can* beat the game, but there are really only two outcomes: One, the way the game is played is so similar between the classes that it really doesn't matter which one you pick, or two, the game is undeniably biased towards the lowest common denominator Beefy McGee strength characters.
And what about the first person shooters? Imagine in Call of Duty you're standing up on a building when someone playing as an assassin runs up the wall, stabs you in the neck, and throws your corpse off of the side.
... Actually, Infinity Ward should get on this pronto.
It depends entirely on the system. In general, the "rogue" character tends to be a jack of all trades. While this is invaluable in a game where there is a party available, in all other circumstances the result is a character ill suited to any task. They tend to deliver high amounts of damage but can rarely sustain much in return. The ability to sneak and speak in a compelling fashion can keep them out of harms way in only a handful of situations.
In most modern RPG's, the agility character is often a poor choice for the PC. The one exception is probably Dragon Age: Origins. The reason is simple - the PC will have the best stats by the end and the rogue requires a fair amount of micro-managing to use correctly. The tank and healer on the other hand can be left almost entirely on autopilot after the battle is joined, leaving you free to divide your attention between the rogue and your mage who will gleefully murder your entire party if it means killing an especially threatening blade of grass.
In most modern RPG's, the agility character is often a poor choice for the PC. The one exception is probably Dragon Age: Origins. The reason is simple - the PC will have the best stats by the end and the rogue requires a fair amount of micro-managing to use correctly. The tank and healer on the other hand can be left almost entirely on autopilot after the battle is joined, leaving you free to divide your attention between the rogue and your mage who will gleefully murder your entire party if it means killing an especially threatening blade of grass.
To pull up my DotA case from earlier, the agility characters are just as powerful as the Str/Int characters. Lower survivability against casters (less health, more armour from their agi stat) but a high attack speed, high damage and a lot of DD skills makes them powerhouses. If you toss on a Lothar's Edge (Wind Walk activate) or play as Clinkz (comes with a Wind Walk skill) then that can save you from a lot of trouble as well as let you set up ambushes.SnarkyNinja said:
That's not to say the Str/Int characters are lacking somehow. Dirge is one of the few melee Int characters in the game and he can absolutely dominate opponents (and entire lanes of mobs) with a combination of Plague, his zombies, damage aura and his team-heal/damage-enemy beam.
Or how about the Lord of Avernus (Str)? With his combination of skills it's incredibly hard for him to ever die. [footnote]Note: All cases based on roughly DotA Version 6.52-6.54[/footnote]
Just one case where the agility guys don't suck. There are plenty more out there I'm sure. One obvious one I've forgotten is WoW where Rogues are generally pretty damn competitive on the meters, along with kitty druids.[footnote]Subject to patch changes by the whims and desires of the Almighty Blizzard[/footnote][footnote]I can use footnotes![/footnote]
I love the idea of the agility character, and for the most part I feel they are a much more interesting character to play, and to roleplay. Typically they have a more interesting story (I say this with absolutely no clarification whatsoever). On the other hand, in DA:O I have found rogues to suck. Badly. To the extent that my party was PC (Warrior with shield), Alistair, Shale and Morrigan. In Neverwinter 2 however, I found a duelist to be excellent (also monks but they are probably more of a fighter-type).
To sum up, in pen-and-paper, with more freedom to roleplay and exploit the athletic and acrobatic nature of agility-types I think they are among the most fun. However, in video games I don't believe their essence has been captured adequately yet.
To sum up, in pen-and-paper, with more freedom to roleplay and exploit the athletic and acrobatic nature of agility-types I think they are among the most fun. However, in video games I don't believe their essence has been captured adequately yet.
I can't say anything useful about rogues & friends, but what I do have noticed is that mages are by the far most powerful in pretty much every RPG. Not always from the start, but definitely later in the game. And because of the so much needed crowd-control in many of those games, mages are not just the most powerful, but often also the characters that control and direct the battlefield. My most recent example: Dragon Age. Even if you play a warrior or rogue who totally kicks ass, if you want to complete the game on anything from normal difficulty and up, you'll end up playing a mage 90% of the time anyway. Warriors run to their targets and start hitting them, rogues run behind their targets and start hitting (and stunning them), but mages are busy controlling multiple targets at once, both with attacks and crown-control, and are therefore the only class that you have to control for yourself to be effective.
..Not that I have a problem with that, but still.
..Not that I have a problem with that, but still.
It depends on the game, probably.
I generally find the warrior/mage to be the strongest classes. The mage usually skilled in crowd-control, but if you have a properly build warrior, and go for the mage first, the warrior is usually the best.
Or at least that's how it worked in Baldur's Gate II.
And if we talk about KOTOR II, that game was strange in this regard. The Jedi lightsaber-master spec kicked total ass with all those buffs, but so did the Sith Force-master spec. Both were way too overpowered, though.
I generally find the warrior/mage to be the strongest classes. The mage usually skilled in crowd-control, but if you have a properly build warrior, and go for the mage first, the warrior is usually the best.
Or at least that's how it worked in Baldur's Gate II.
And if we talk about KOTOR II, that game was strange in this regard. The Jedi lightsaber-master spec kicked total ass with all those buffs, but so did the Sith Force-master spec. Both were way too overpowered, though.
I dunno, I always play mage, like, always. Like everytime I play a game and his has the 3, I play mage and nothing else forever. I dunno, the only games I ever played agility were DotA and that's not much different from playing strength, except you rape people with criticals, and Fable, where ,yes you are a gimp.
D&D is an entirely different matter, cause of all the hiding and dissarming and stuff. In D&D, when playing with a good party, a rogue is an invaluable tool. Plus, they're so damn fun!
D&D is an entirely different matter, cause of all the hiding and dissarming and stuff. In D&D, when playing with a good party, a rogue is an invaluable tool. Plus, they're so damn fun!
Wha? Mages absolutely dominate in Baldur's Gate 2. They can annihilate Dragons before even taking a hit with Time Stop->Contingency of Greater Malison->Chromatic Orb/Finger of Death. Warriors cannot say the same. Plus a Sorcerer is generally the preferred choice for BG2 solo runs, although I've also seen Thief and Ranger/Cleric multiclass solo runs as well.Spinozaad said:
I personally like rogue classes in most games. For instance, I've played both mage and rogue in Dragon Age Origins, and my rogue characters were infinitely more fun and powerful. Sure, a mage can lock down an entire room, but there's just something very fun about turning into a whirling dervish of blades and taking down all the grunts who were trying to swarm you. The damage output on the rogue is extraordinarily high if you play it right. I think what stumps most people is the tactics to it. You can't just run into the middle of the fray, and you can't stand in the back, either. You have to plan your path, thread through the thick of things, and tactically plan your next moves. It requires a bit more thought than some people want, and if that's the case then stick with a tank and have fun hacking and slashing.
Agility heroes are a smart persons character. Strength heroes you run up and smash. Intelligence you stand back and throw fireballs. Agility heroes have to figure out how to get every advantage over the enemy. Have to figure out how to get up to the enemy without being noticed.
Least that is my opinion.
Least that is my opinion.
I'm sorry, but link is not agility class, he is a hybrid of every class (depending on the game) he is a warrior (who else do you know who can take like... 20 arrows to the face and still be alive? Especially with the magic armour from TP, oh and lifting a boulder about 20 times your bodyweight = pretty strong) mage (dins fire anyone? Songs which can turn back time? sounds pretty magical to me) and he has the ninja like reflexes and skill of an agility class.
So IMO link can't be used in this argument.
Although agility class still pwns in some games, it's just often harder to use.
So IMO link can't be used in this argument.
Although agility class still pwns in some games, it's just often harder to use.