The sarcasm/BDSM discussion thread!

[Geo Da Sponge]

Snip.

I very much doubt you are in any kind of position to judge what is and isn't an insult on that matter. Two decades worth of experience in the field does allow me to make judgments on wildly inaccurate claims pertaining to said field. Especially when she had been asked repeatedly to cease insulting those who actually do engage in D/s and BDSM.

Of course, this is yet more example of how only the convenient bits are spoken of and the inconvenient bits are ignored and desperately attempted to be buried under a flurry of posts.

Way to make an appeal to authority there. Because as we all know, BDSM isn't at all based on personal tastes and desires, and presenting your tastes as more 'legitimate' than others isn't smug at all.

Well are you going to highlight the inconvenient bits? I'll admit that I only browsed the thread, but all of her posts seemed pretty... Well, empty. That's not exactly a compliment, but I couldn't find any 'insults' from her that weren't based entirely on you disagreeing with how she interpreted something.

Disagreement is perfectly fine. Dismissing the emotional depth, sincerity and weight of the submissive's dedication when submitting to a dominant by calling it "roleplay" even after having been educated on it is very much offensive. That there are people who do "roleplay" BDSM or D/s in the bedroom is a certainty and I addressed it. That does not, in any shape way or form, excuse the offense of dismissing real BDSM and D/s as mere pretense and roleplay.

And no, BDSM is not based on personal tastes and desires alone. The definitions are old and they're firm. That posers and hobby amateurs start using the terms to describe themselves does not make their actions hold any kind of water when compared to the real thing.

Yes, I'm certainly smug and arrogant. I earned that, by learning the subject in very intimate detail, over time and through hard lessons.

You're right. Let's go ask what those definitions are.

From Wikipedia (I know, perfect source right?):

"BDSM is a preference and sometimes form of personal relationship centering around activities that are erotic but may not be sexual, and which may include the consensual use of restraint, intense sensory stimulation, and fantasy power role play."

Or Urban Dictionary (Another perfect source, of course. And I'm using the second definion given, but only because the first just shows what the acronym stands for):

"A physical, psychological and usually sexual power-role-play with consensual participants."

Annnnd Google:

"BDSM is a type of roleplay or lifestyle choice between two or more individuals who use their experiences of pain and power to create sexual tension, pleasure, and release."

Those are literally the first three defintions I can find that go beyond just saying what the initials stand for. Your definition that doesn't include roleplaying doesn't seem very firm to me now.

Now I'm not saying that what you do is roleplay, because I can see that would be rude. Not rude enough to deserve what you said to Boudica about it, but whatever. But I think it's just as rude to start saying that what other people do isn't 'real' BDSM just because it's not what you like.

Can...Can I follow you from thread to thread? You have a way of remaining civil throughout a debate. I like that.

Umm... Sure. I should warn you that I don't post much. You see...

I don't usually post on the Escapist. But when I do, I get involved in a really messed up and thread derailing argument.

 

[SpectacularWebHead]

I like the fem-dom kind of BDSM roleplay, personally. I don't like the male dominant version because I dislike men having any power. My current boyfriend enjoys it, so I've little reason to care about changing lol.

50 Shades of Grey had BDSM in it to the same degree that A Serbian Film has sex in it--i.e. it's all wrong. The book itself is creepy, but not sexist.

I'd say that it was... It was largely about a guy treating a woman as a slave to his whims seems sexist to me. Especially considering the lack of consent being half of the authors thrill. It's both wrong and sexist.

I also want to make a comment about that first bit completely devoid of the concept you MAY have been joking, but There's about fifty other guys who jumped on that bandwagon.

It's not sexist, it's just about one woman being degraded (partially) against her will. Kind of like how a movie with a black guy being beaten up isn't racist, it just has one example of something that could be racist in it. You get me? A little hard to explain.

Kind of... It's like circumstantially sexist? This guy would likely do this to a partner no matter what there gender (If he was bisexual) because he's a dick?

It's hard to analyse because the book is such trash.

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

Ah...Boudica and Deviate always make these threads for me...I've gotten to lurking for/in them, because I just know a fun little argument will crop up between either one of them and someone else. This one even had the bonus of 2 arguments! So much rage, so little time.

On topic: While I don't think that the 50 shades series is sexist, per say, I do think it is terribly written and should probably have received far less attention than they actually have. All they really are, from what I can tell, are a published version of terrible porn-fics that are found on the internet.

Though it has spawned fairly entertaining things from the internet. Want to hear part of this terrible book read in Morgan Freeman's voice? Here you go!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5rUqNP40wY&feature=g-user-u (not embedded because NSFW language)

Thank you, thank you! We'll be here all week. Also, thanks for the Morgan Freeman link. I love collecting those videos.

 

[ItsAChiaotzu]

I like the fem-dom k

Well this thread exploded! And I haven't got fifty million messages saying I'm a ****, which usually happens everytime I try to talk about real issues.

I'd say that's a win!

Wait, what? You got insulted? What did you do?

Also... why did you change your avatar? I miss the toast...

You know what reading through this made me realise?

You are the guy from 50 Shades of Grey. That's kinda funny.

Anyway, back to being OT, or at least kind of. I dunno about anyone else but my penis doesn't give a shit about my ideologies. I could be the staunchest feminist on earth and it wouldn't control what my penis did whatsoever. Describing any kind of pornography as sexist kind of misses the point of pornography as far as I'm concerned because pornography and sex don't deal in the same circles as equality and rhetoric.

I am? Lol. You gotta explain this one to me.

It's simple really. The guy from 50 Shades of Grey, as I understand it, was abused by a woman when he was younger which left him with issues in which in his relationships with women he liked to have complete control over them and this took the form of sexual dominance. As far as I can glean from your post, you have pretty much the exact same issues. Thought that was an interesting parallel.

 

[Tippy]

I like the fem-dom kind of BDSM roleplay, personally. I don't like the male dominant version because I dislike men having any power.

Are you serious?

The more you post the less I can take you seriously. "Feminism is a celebration of women, that's why I hate men".

Guuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrl, sort yourself out. Mmmm hmmm

You're going to have to show me where I said I hate men. I'd really like to see this magical ability of yours to summon forth things people never said. You should also probably explain to my boyfriend that I hate him.

Seems like major issues with men if you (and I quote) "dislike men having any power".

That's not a healthy attitude.

Oh, you can't show that I "hate men"? Odd that you would make the claim, knowing you cannot support it.

"I dislike women having any power."

Do you know what would happen if I (a man) said that? Or especially, a man in power (e.g. a game developer). Feminist groups will tear him to shreds.
Hell, men have said far more light-hearted and vague stuff than that and feminists have STILL launched attacks on them, trying to twist and exaggerate their words into blatant sexism.

Which is why you need to be careful of what you say. Men don't really mind if women say they "dislike men being in power" (it's easy to throw off as a joke) but women and political groups become very, very serious when a man says the same thing.

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

I like the fem-dom kind of BDSM roleplay, personally. I don't like the male dominant version because I dislike men having any power.

Are you serious?

The more you post the less I can take you seriously. "Feminism is a celebration of women, that's why I hate men".

Guuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrl, sort yourself out. Mmmm hmmm

You're going to have to show me where I said I hate men. I'd really like to see this magical ability of yours to summon forth things people never said. You should also probably explain to my boyfriend that I hate him.

Seems like major issues with men if you (and I quote) "dislike men having any power".

That's not a healthy attitude.

Oh, you can't show that I "hate men"? Odd that you would make the claim, knowing you cannot support it.

"I dislike women having any power."

Do you know what would happen if I (a man) said that? Or especially, a man in power (e.g. a developer). Feminist groups will tear him to shreds.
Hell, men have said far more light-hearted and vague stuff than that and feminists have STILL launched attacks on them, trying to twist and exaggerate their words into blatant sexism.

Which is why you need to be careful of what you say. Men don't really mind if women say they "dislike men being in power" (it's easy to throw off as a joke) but women and political groups become very, very serious when a man says the same thing.

Back up a bit, Tippy. We already had a massive argument over this and she clarified the context. Don't see why she doesn't go back and edit it, but... She apparently means "I dislike men having any power over me".

 

[Fiz_The_Toaster]

I don't understand BDSM and I don't see the appeal of it, but whatever. People can do whatever the hell they want in the bedroom, and why should I care?

Also, I really don't think it's sexist, but then again, some people will claim anything is sexist if they look at it hard enough.

 

[Skullpanda]

I like the fem-dom k

Well this thread exploded! And I haven't got fifty million messages saying I'm a ****, which usually happens everytime I try to talk about real issues.

I'd say that's a win!

Wait, what? You got insulted? What did you do?

Also... why did you change your avatar? I miss the toast...

You know what reading through this made me realise?

You are the guy from 50 Shades of Grey. That's kinda funny.

Anyway, back to being OT, or at least kind of. I dunno about anyone else but my penis doesn't give a shit about my ideologies. I could be the staunchest feminist on earth and it wouldn't control what my penis did whatsoever. Describing any kind of pornography as sexist kind of misses the point of pornography as far as I'm concerned because pornography and sex don't deal in the same circles as equality and rhetoric.

I am? Lol. You gotta explain this one to me.

It's simple really. The guy from 50 Shades of Grey, as I understand it, was abused by a woman when he was younger which left him with issues in which in his relationships with women he liked to have complete control over them and this took the form of sexual dominance. As far as I can glean from your post, you have pretty much the exact same issues. Thought that was an interesting parallel.

I don't abuse an unwilling partner or gain satisfaction from basically ruining someone's life.

He's insane. I'm dominating.

Also, to add to your argument here: You're far more entertaining and much better written than that terrible character. Not to mention the whole gender difference thing.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

I don't understand BDSM and I don't see the appeal of it, but whatever. People can do whatever the hell they want in the bedroom, and why should I care?

Also, I really don't think it's sexist, but then again, some people will claim anything is sexist if they look at it hard enough.

Also, I really don't think it's sexist, but then again, some people will claim anything is sexist if they look at it hard enough.

...but then again, some people will claim anything is sexist if they look at it hard enough.

...if they look at it hard enough.

hard enough.

Childishness aside, I don't think I'll ever understand why people get so worked up about how others get their jollies in the bedroom.

If there's consent, then it's nobody's damn business.

 

[ItsAChiaotzu]

I like the fem-dom k

Well this thread exploded! And I haven't got fifty million messages saying I'm a ****, which usually happens everytime I try to talk about real issues.

I'd say that's a win!

Wait, what? You got insulted? What did you do?

Also... why did you change your avatar? I miss the toast...

You know what reading through this made me realise?

You are the guy from 50 Shades of Grey. That's kinda funny.

Anyway, back to being OT, or at least kind of. I dunno about anyone else but my penis doesn't give a shit about my ideologies. I could be the staunchest feminist on earth and it wouldn't control what my penis did whatsoever. Describing any kind of pornography as sexist kind of misses the point of pornography as far as I'm concerned because pornography and sex don't deal in the same circles as equality and rhetoric.

I am? Lol. You gotta explain this one to me.

It's simple really. The guy from 50 Shades of Grey, as I understand it, was abused by a woman when he was younger which left him with issues in which in his relationships with women he liked to have complete control over them and this took the form of sexual dominance. As far as I can glean from your post, you have pretty much the exact same issues. Thought that was an interesting parallel.

I don't abuse an unwilling partner or gain satisfaction from basically ruining someone's life.

He's insane. I'm dominating.

I haven't read the whole thing, but I have read the part where he provides her with a contract to sign if she is willing to conform to his system. His style of domination may be more severe than yours but it's rooted in the same psychological problems and manifests itself in almost the same way.

 

[Fappy]

-Snip-

I am disappointed in myself that I didn't notice this

Daystar's always hard enough. That's a fact.

 

[Fappy]

-Snip-

Hey, hands off!

We're not quite divorced yet!

I am still discussing with my lawyer how I am going to get his moon fortress in the settlement.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Oh Daystar...You always know JUST what to say!...MARRY ME!

I'm spoken for I'm afraid

-Snip-

I am disappointed in myself that I didn't notice this

Daystar's always hard enough. That's a fact.

You let the side down bro.

Your response was flaccid and premature.

 

[taciturnCandid]

There is nothing wrong with BDSM. It is an extension mainly of natural tendencies to either be a dominant leader or a submissive follower. There are no predefined roles and actually many partners who engage in it switch roles occasionally.

Afterwards the partners come together and recognize that it is just play. They recognize each other as equals and as partners. Those that don't often turn abusive, which is something that puts a strain on the relationship. It is often times misportrayed in media.

There are other things that bother me with the portrayal of BDSM in media. One thing is the link to Sadomasochism. BDSM is about power, humiliation and pleasure. Pain is used to reinforce roles.

Sadomasochism is about using pain for pleasure. Masochists feel pleasure when recieving pain and Sadists find pleasure in inflicting it. Often times this is completely seperate from the BDSM scene as there is no part of power playing involved. Just indulgence in pleasures. However, Sadomasochists often times participate in BDSM and find enjoyment in some of the acts use to establish dominance.

While as people can be into the BDSM scene and not be Sadomasochists at all. For them, the pain is part of humiliation. It is part of the play and not an action of pleasure in itself.

It just seems to me though that people forget about aftercare so much. They focus on the roles people take during the sessions and not really on the whole experience.

 

[Fappy]

Oh Daystar...You always know JUST what to say!...MARRY ME!

I'm spoken for I'm afraid

-Snip-

I am disappointed in myself that I didn't notice this

Daystar's always hard enough. That's a fact.

You let the side down bro.

Your response was flaccid and premature.

Too many innuendos!

Is it getting hot in here or is it just me?