The Stigma of Role-Playing Must Die!

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BryceN

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Nov 23, 2009
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My experience with tabletop gaming has been tainted by the two head tabletop gamers in my area, Jim and Jason. They seem to be the only people who host games that meet according to my schedule. (what a surprise, they host some RPG or another almost every single day) The problem is, they're total douchebags. They try to alienate anyone coming to see what D&D and other pen and paper RPG's. It's turned me off to the whole genre so much that I don't even want to try again with a different group, much less learn to DM myself. It's people like that that give D&D a bad name.
*edit* I don't think D&D is a satanic indoctrination, or even a stupid concept, and i certainly don't look down on people I meet elsewhere that play it.
 

patryn0

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Oct 27, 2009
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These are great articles, OP, the story web was very helpful actually. However, this one isn't making my game better, and I don't care how or what people think about D&D or any other table tops. If they don't like my cup of tea, they can have their own dumpster swill.

More tips, less soapbox pls.
 

tetron

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Dec 9, 2009
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I'd say it's mostly a lack of DMs. Also the barrier for entry if anything would be the learning of the game, a lot of people may watch someone play D&D and think it's cool but not have the patience for it.
 

masterplan 1980

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May 23, 2010
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i have a comment related to this article.
i am a metalhead through and through. i hang out with metalheads and i hope to be successful in a band. i am smart but i do poorly in school.
problem is, i'm also a nerd. i think roleplaying sounds like the most fun thing ever, but i'm afraid that if i did it i would be ostracized from my circle. i really need to be in a band.
i guess i'm just saying that i wish it was more acceptable to be a role player. :(
 

Master of Magic

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May 24, 2010
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I've read 3 pages of rationalizing, and people dancing around the issue, when the answer is plain as day.

It's not because D&D was maligned in the eighties that the hobby has such a bad reputation. The only reason is that a vast majority of the people who play the games are nerds, period. There's no smoke without fire, and stereotypes are always true, else they wouldn't have become part of common worldly wisdom in the first place. Of course people protest when they're in the receiving end, but it doesn't change the facts.

Guys who were hardcore fans of intellectual and introverted hobbies demanding huge time investments, like chess, were universally deemed as losers well before any D&D smear campaign.

That's the only reason why. Introverted guys are deemed as losers by society, because a man's worth is entirely determined by his ranking in the social totem pole. An intellectual man who doesn't also have status and power to go with it is deemed a loser too. We still function on the DNA of our prehistoric ancestors, an era in which for men dominance, physical strenght and manliness were all that mattered. They were the ones who sired children and got to pass their genes, while their subordinates were weeded out of the gene pool.

The qualities deemed attractive are those that will allow guys to pass off their genes according to the standards of our prehistoric ancestors. It's plain to see that if you're an hardcore RPG fan, you have far less chance of having dozens of friends, of having a high status job, of being handsome and muscular, of being married, of possessing anything that our brains are hardwired to make us admire.

It's especially bad for RPGs because the introverted guy stigma is combined with that of escapism. If you fantasize about escaping reality, it's mostly because society and life have dealt you a bad hand. And it's even worse for heroic fantasy games because in fantasy men are blessed with powers and become heroes revered by the world's inhabitants. Fantasy games are based on European folklore, on the epic heroes of legend part of the fundational myths. They were the embodiment of the ideals that the men were then to strive for.

If someone has a fetichism over that it's likely because he fantasizes about being everything he isn't in real life, and of living in a world where he is not only welcomed, but where everyone needs him, admires him, and where he has the possibility to accomplish numerous exploits.

Many of you in this thread confess to instantly perceiving RPG players as losers the instant you witness any telltale sign of being a fan of the hobby. I admit that it's also the first reaction I ever have: "That guy must be a social outcast."

All of this is simply peer pressure and evolution at work, so there isn't anything wrong with spending a lot of time playing PnP games so long as you don't neglect the other aspects of your life. But for these reasons, as long as role-playing games exist, they will come with the stigma of loserdom, period. World of Warcraft is eclipsing everything else, including D&D, as to what most people instantly think of when they think of RPGs, and the stigma is still as strong as ever. Mention to anyone that you like WoW a lot, and instantly they'll think of you as a loser.

It's also true that there is a complex with hedonistic activities in our society. We are supposed to work hard and take care of our family above all, less we are perceived as irresponsible. Someone who has an inordinate amount of time to spend on hobbies has way more chances of being a social outcast because if he has so much time to spend on entertainment it's because he has a void to fill.

It's hard as hell to orchestrate PnP games because when you grow up no one has the time to dedicate a whole evening every week to a hobby.

I'm sorry this isn't meant as an attack, and I don't try to be hypocritical (I would say I am a loser myself), but to me it seemed like the elephant in the room.
 

LordKiwi

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May 19, 2010
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Last Thursday me and 4 friends got together to play an RPG. No one had done any preparation, no one had to GM and the whole thing was over (character gen through to the end of the story) in 2 1/2 hours (about the length of a movie).

We played http://www.bullypulpitgames.com/games/fiasco/ but there are plenty of other games in existence you can play without them devouring your free time, needing to commit to regular games or spend too much money on.

I mentioned this before but I figure I wasn't specific enough.

TL;DR: If you have a busy schedule, play a game that doesn't take much time.
 

Mr. GameBrain

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Aug 10, 2009
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I've been playing videogames since I was 6, but not once have I ever come into contact with D&D, (excluding games like Neverwinter Nights that are based on the D&D mechanics).

I would like to give it a go sometime though, (LARP sounds quite fun, and would be pretty cool way to do something creative and active, (though I hope it isn't just medieval themed, (would be pretty cool to act out something futuristic, (Modern-sci-fi esque, or B-movie lolsomeness!), or even something akin' to street fighter (though some would find that kinda silly! XD)).

Problem is, I can't seem to find enough people with the time and the open-mindedness to give it a go.
Even my closest friends, (both avid gamers like me! :D), are usually too busy to even get into contact with me sometimes.
 

Psydney

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Oct 29, 2009
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Doh, I'm terrible about checking messages. But here's the link:
http://waywally.com/dnd/umber/
Not sure how intelligible it is mid-read :)
 

Kojiro ftt

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Apr 1, 2009
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Yeah, its easier to turn on the xbox or PC and send party invites to play some online game. Finding local people to get together at the same time, for several hours (ok a few at least), and play D&D is tough.

Speaking of which, I'm looking for a group to play D&D with in Beaverton, OR area :)
 

Addendum_Forthcoming

Queen of the Edit
Feb 4, 2009
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I can still sorta understand why it's fringe ... if only for the quintessential role of the DM...

Yes ... being a DM is painful. You spend just as much time reading, listening to players whine how you're so totally nerfing their character below everybody else by not letting their character learn a ridiculously oped spell, than actually PLAYING.

And even then it's some sort of freaking prerequisite that the DM shouldn't have any fun by their ownsome even once they do all the legwork themselves.

Then everybody thinks you're a little Hitler when you turn around and judicate on a scenario because one PC is being a smartass with a wish spell by trying to make you read two pages of legal jargon that you inevitable throw over your shoulder and say;

"Mystical Wish genie says 'TL:DR. Banishment to Stygian pits for your crime of pissing off Mystical Wish genie'".

People think DMing D&D is strange ... because it is. You must be partly masochistic to want to DM a game ... playing D&D is normal. I think it's completely normal. You bring a few 6 packs, share them amongst the others, somebody brings a couple of pizzas and you play.

But being a DM is not the same as playing D&D ... because alot of the time it feels like a second job.

PCs just need to drag their butts to the game ... whereas you have to be at EVERY game, do 50 times the amount of reading, think on the spot and ad lib ALL the freaking time, be the target of so much geek rage over things you just 'rule' then and there.

So playing D&D = normal ... DMing D&D = insane ...

Your only comfort is the knowledge that your players *might* raise their hand at the end of an adventure and say 'I don't mind running a few side missions' ... your heart jumps for joy ... then you realise the pc now dming hasn't dmed in decades and has refit his adventure with training wheels whilst (understandably) he refinds his dming ability.

So your 'break' becomes a tedious hacky-slashy affair with your lovingly created character joining the rigmarole of a homogenised D&D adventure.

Ain't life grand for a DM? Which is, heart and soul, what D&D is all about ... the Dm ... and how crushingly lonely it is to be a DM that you fantasise about TPKing everybody just so somebody realises you want to be a PC again.
 

Lord_Kristof

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Sep 24, 2010
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You want the hobby to stop having a stigma and to be more socially acceptable and recognizable as a valid way of spending time, and even perhaps an artistic medium? Great! I've got a solution.

STOP PLAYING FU**ING D&D.

It's the single most characteristic role-playing game which everybody has at least heard about, but at the same time it's, by default, as far from the role-playing principle as possible. Consider this introductory video and take note of how many times the word 'roleplaying' is used and in what context, and what the guy says about the importance of roleplaying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76yhnu4Kwew&feature=related

For those of you who don't want to watch it for any reason, I'll tell you. The word is used three or four times, in the following contexts: traps, 'other hazards', 'non-combat situation such as chasing a guy in a crowded market rolling for such skills like Athletics, Acrobatics and Streetwise'. Also, he doesn't say ANYTHING about the importance of role-playing in, you know, a ROLE PLAYING GAME.

Seriously, the fact that D&D is so popular is possibly the one MOST damaging thing and the biggest problem for the hobby. RPG players as seen as these guys who sit in the basement fiddling with miniatures and rolling dice. Not as those guys which create alternate realities in which they play roles, not unlike in theatre, only more freeform, with a lot of improvisation and creating a story together. What games does that description remind you of more - D&D, or World of Darkness? D&D, or Call of Cthulu? D&D, or Warhammer (let's count second or first edition here)?

I wanted to read through all the articles from the series, but I simply don't find myself interested in reading about D&D. D&D is not the only RPG on the market, it's not the best RPG on the market in ANY department, and it's also not an RPG, or RP-encouraging, in my understanding. You want the stigma to go away? Start playing something else, preferably more story driven and slanted toward actual role-playing than 'dungeoneering', and promote that. Maybe some day people will finally see that RPG's are probably the most important gaming achievement in human history, or at least in the last 100 years.
 

dubious_wolf

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Jun 4, 2009
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I realize this is a bit late and will be considered threadromancy, however this little topic has hit pretty close to home as I have recently had a lot of problems with some of my friends on this very topic.
A few of my seem like fairly nerdy people, they watch Supernatural, they enjoy dragon age mass effect and one of them is deeply immersed in the star wars universe. I thought it might be a cool idea to introduce the serenity RPG (these guys are all massive Firefly fans) It went smashingly. we met on thursdays and shot purple bellies, blew up expensive space mansions, smuggled contraband, etc. But as the game wore on I as the GM began to see a pattern, they enjoyed combat. They thrived on it, every time there was fighting they began to get excited unlike when we were simply roleplaying. I suggested after carful consideration that my nerves couldn't take running fast hard combat on the heavy and cumbersome combat mechanics in the SerenityRPG. I suggested D&D 4.0. Huge mistake. Each person dismissed it. "It's too nerdy", "magic is stupid" It was hypocrisy at it's finest, how can you play one RPG and see another as "too nerdy" it's all the same caliber of nerdy. In all honesty my opinion of the group dropped, I thought I had found a group of people that were excepting of nerd culture. Instead I found a group of guys that want me as the GM to be an interactive simulation, providing option cues and dialogue trees, much like the videogames they play. It frustrated me and left a bit of a division between us as a group ever since.

TL;TR
This has been a great series so far in helping me understand RPGing in a hostile world.