The Stigma of Role-Playing Must Die!

[LadyRhian]

You know, I'm a woman, and I've been playing Dungeons and Dragons for well over 30 years now (started the summer before 5th grade, am now 43). I've played it since the original Blue Box edition (although you could still find the three books in the white box if you looked- I had book 4, the Gods and Deities, with the Egyptian Gods on the cover), and I still play today, although not 4th edition. Honestly, I feel 4th edition is a great combat simulator, but it's not a roleplaying game as I understand RPGs.

That being said, it's easy finding places to play online without resorting to webcams. You can go to RPOL.net or Playbyweb.com and find games there, though finding a good GM is harder. Also, the games are more spread out in time, as it is like posting on a message board. The GM posts what you see, people respond, the GM updates the situation. Playbyweb even has a dice roller to make random dice rolls for you. It's different, but that doesn't make it bad. It also allows people from different timezones and even different countries to RP together. Go check it out. I run two games there, both in the Adult section (for ultraviolence and occasionally sick-making descriptions, not necessarily for sex). They are Albion Forest and Called to Duty.

 

[0over0]

...I often feel more like the world's worst playwright getting ready to show with some of the worst actors ever.
But it's all in good fun!

I've almost never been able to just play--I've pretty much always DM'd (except for short bursts or one-offs), and I'd have to agree with that statement. It's a blast, but really only for the people who are very into it. It's like quadruple off-Broadway experimental audience participation theater with wet dogs and strobe lights--there's just not a big audience for it.

But, yes, it is fun.


It can also be pretty difficult to find a good match for a group. They have to be people willing to spend several hours weekly or bi-weekly together with that nasty dichotomy of rules technicalities and wide-open imagination. The personalities often just don't mesh well together.

I also live in NYC and gamers here are like they are everywhere (just more of it and, at the same time, harder to find in some ways)--and the general population as well. There's always a certain percentage of slackers, jerks, know-it-alls, loudmouths, smelly people, rude people, flakes, etc. It's tough getting through the sludge to get to the particular brand of personalities you want. Daunting, even. And as you get older, chances are you know fewer people who consider gaming of any sort a viable hobby.

I'm not saying it's impossible--if one is dedicated enough to something, almost anything is possible. But these are all things that work against f2f rpging as a growing hobby. People are lazy, overcoming these things requires work. Most people don't like to work even when they get paid for it.
Net result? F2f rpging is a niche and will probably remain so.

 

[Atmos Duality]

TBH honest AD, if it takes you 5 hours to prep for a 5 hours game of D&D 4e, you're doing something wrong... encounter building takes a handful of minute at most. As for the plot/rp, well, that depends on the DM. I know I like to freeform a lot, so my 'notes' for the night usually consist of a few guiding lines and stuff I think would be cool if it happened.

Still, it does take more time for the DM... but that's one guy. The players have it much easier.

The point still stand tho: The time needed is only really an issue if you're trying to tack it on top of an already busy schedule. If you decided 'D&D is my hobby' instead of 'Karate (or whatever) is my Hobby', you'll find you'll have plenty of time for it... and that in fact, it's actually a lot less time consuming than many other hobbies out there.

Heh. Who said I was running 4E?

And writing for game is only time consuming in an empirical way. I write my stuff down between breaks, during downtime etc, and I have a pretty strong memory for these things.

Fact is, I create most of my encounters from scratch since D&D 3.5 (or even 2nd Ed) has a number of logical holes in it, or because most of the default stuff is either too good or too sucky.
However, it's the plot work that consumes most of my time, as my games tend to lean on the "large" side; It usually starts small, and then word gets around about what I've been running and suddenly, I have a 9-12 person game.

For each character, that's another factor I have to consider since each and every one can potentially derail an already nebulous plot. It's important not to be too controlling with your players, otherwise you get what we call "railroading".

On the other hand...if the players start deliberately abusing the system and it's hurting any sort of mood or encounter I attempt to create, then it's probably time to bring the hammer down on someone. Creating the aftermath can be just as interesting.

I've almost never been able to just play--I've pretty much always DM'd (except for short bursts or one-offs), and I'd have to agree with that statement.

It can also be pretty difficult to find a good match for a group. They have to be people willing to spend several hours weekly or bi-weekly together with that nasty dichotomy of rules technicalities and wide-open imagination. The personalities often just don't mesh well together.

Aye. The personality compatibility of my playgroup is so complicated that I could probably write a Psychology Master's Thesis on it. And you bring up a huge point that bothers me: seldom is anyone else willing to take the DM role and let me play.

It seems once you've sat in the God-Chair, you're stuck there.

 

[Sol_HSA]

Haven't played for a long time.
Used to do it a lot as a kid.
Still have friends who'd love to play.
Nobody I know has negative feelings towards RPGs.
So, why don't we play?
No time.

 

[Plurralbles]

My friends started a game a while ago. It's really fun. Of course, it would be more stressful if our house rules weren't in tact.

Anyway, I'm playing 3.5 because the GM and veteran players hate 4.0.

Simply put, it's more work to set up and play.

Really? coming from a complete newb: 2 hours one day to make a character. a half hour to go out and get a figurine(mine is Fry from futurama*ranger* and his bear is Nibbler), and once all that is in place, you can just start a game anywhere. All the work after that is strictly the Gm's, and even that can be half assed and take an hour a week, tops, to prepare. Once there is no question on which dice to roll, turns go by rather quickly and get quicker everytime. Just have good communication with the group and everything works out quite fine. Once a week session that lasts as long as we can play. Not too hard.

My group stayed with 3.5 bcause the veterans realized 4.0 was shit.

 

[Gantoris13]

It may seem that there is a wall to entry, but IMO its imaginary. It really comes down to a few things does the idea of role playing interest you? and are you willing to learn the rules?

Pretty simple in my book. In my group of friends we just started (all of us) about 3 months back with D&D 4E. I started as DM and we just read the books and dug in. It was actually pretty easy to get started and we all were going into it knowing that we were going to make mistakes but learn as we go.

I honestly think it was easier to start not having anyone that had played before then if we had someone that was a long time player. The reason being that the experienced player would have gotten frustrated with the time it takes a totally new player to learn, and us as new players would have gotten frustrated because we were frustrating the "expert" player.

Since we first learned we have incorporated more experienced players into the group and everything went very smooth, and were were able to play while learning minor tips & tricks from the more experienced players.

For us until we just jumped in and did it, was the idea that the game takes a long time and a lot of effort to learn to even begin playing. That was the imagined wall that was barring us in the past. That's what needs to be fought against, IMO if someone has played a computer based RPG they can play tabletop games. And the learning curve is about the same.

 

[Otterpoet]

Regrettably, RPGs like D&D tend to attract the socially bankrupt more often than not. And many members of the gaming culture just take their hobby way too seriously. Combine that with years of prejudice and stigma and you have the perfect storm of ignorance.

I've been running and playing RPGs since 1979; I even wrote a couple in the early 90s. So, I've been allowed to see the entire progression of the industry. And one thing continues to stick in my mind: We don't do ourselves any favors. I will never forget sitting on a bus and hearing a dopey-eyed, oily haired teen rocking back and forth and muttering the rules for Disciples (from Vampire: The Masquerade). My first instinct was to say, "Hey, you play too?!" But the instinct that won out was, "Don't make any sudden movements and back away slowly."

The reaction most uninformed people have is the latter as well.

 

[Brokenglove]

Been playing pen and paper table top gaming 16 bloody years and still play once a week, its great mental exersise and a nice alternative to hitting buttons all day long...

playing rogue trader at the moment and loving it but would not mind another classic d and d game sometime...

and yes there should have been more response to the idiots trying to depict rpgs as the devils instrument, when confronted by a christian fuckwit determined to prove to me that my hobby was evil I simply pointed out the irony of someone following their own mythical book that was actually PROVEN to have cause tragedy and death, jonestown to name but one.... and I can't thrown a d20 and simply kill jesus with my +10 sword of smiting so no fai, the dudes no more real than an orc.

Gah, people who see one retard who happens to also have religious beliefs and use them to tear into the religion piss me off so much.

I'm a pretty conservative christian, and my first d&d game was with a group of people I met at my church! The youth leader was the gm!

 

[sunpop]

I actually did the whole process of becoming a gamer backwards, I started off being forced to play outside and do the whole sports thing. I had played snes and a good amount of n64 but when I moved up to middle school I somehow became popular and met a friend who got me more into gaming. By the time I left for my high school in another town (regional trade school) I had already met a bunch of the "cool" kids and so when I became more and more of a gamer no one cared. People who once looked at my computer shop and said nerd now were friends with one of them and stopped.

Since first hearing about D&D I always wanted to try it out but never knew anyone who would want to play. About a year after graduating I met some people who play D&D and have started getting into it and love it. I play 3.5 by the way they told me about 4th edition and well..no thanks.

I like to think I helped break the social gap between the "nerds" and the "cool" kids, not to mention one of my friends from computer shop ended up being the most well known person in the school. For better or worse.

People always look at D&D players as a bunch of looser but then I always bring up the difference between us role playing and an actor role playing is they get payed absurd amounts of money to do it, and sometimes we do it much better.*cough cough* megan fox *cough* oh excuse me.

 

[Talvrae]

Ohhh god just read Dark Dungeons for the first time... what a piece of crap... how poeple can take that seriously?

 

[Necromancer1991]

In my opinion, playing D&D is ok, if I could get a group going here in the middle of NJ I'd play regularly. Just 'cause some nut decides to go running into the catacombs of the nearest mausoleum to fight the undead hordes in RL, doesn't mean we all act like that(LARPers excluded).
Yet people still think that D&D is a weird hobby, sure role-playing a dwarf may alienate some people but you know what, f*ck them, it our life and if we want to play D&D that's is our choice and ours alone!

 

[Escape_Artist]

My friends started a game a while ago. It's really fun. Of course, it would be more stressful if our house rules weren't in tact.

Anyway, I'm playing 3.5 because the GM and veteran players hate 4.0.

Simply put, it's more work to set up and play.

Really? coming from a complete newb: 2 hours one day to make a character. a half hour to go out and get a figurine(mine is Fry from futurama*ranger* and his bear is Nibbler), and once all that is in place, you can just start a game anywhere. All the work after that is strictly the Gm's, and even that can be half assed and take an hour a week, tops, to prepare. Once there is no question on which dice to roll, turns go by rather quickly and get quicker everytime. Just have good communication with the group and everything works out quite fine. Once a week session that lasts as long as we can play. Not too hard.

My group stayed with 3.5 bcause the veterans realized 4.0 was shit.

I'm not saying it isn't fun (because I enjoy such games myself), I'm just saying that generealy people would rather not spend the 2 hours of character creation and then the few hours (for the dm) to make the campaign and instead play some kind of video game with pretty much everything prepared already.

 

[Escape_Artist]

also, 4.0 does kinda suck. What happened to only magic users having spells?

 

[Baralak]

also, 4.0 does kinda suck. What happened to only magic users having spells?

IT is only magic users that have spells. A Fighter can't have a special attack or two? They really aimed for cinematic combat with 4e, and I think they nailed it on the head. I'd LOVE to play more 4e if I could find a DM and players...Makes me wonder where WotC were claiming that 4e was their best-selling edition yet or somesuch a year or so back...

OT: I have had a co worker tell me with a straight face that D&D was Satanic, and she was in her late 20's, early 30's, so the stigma's still out there if anyone doubts it, and it's not just the older folks. I just went "Nah, it's just a game." But I don't think she heard me....

Either way, I mainly play my RPGs online with OpenRPG, great program, it is! Been playin' soem 3.5 D&D, the occasional d20 Modern game, and just started up some Dragon Age!

 

[Kyoufuu]

That is all.

 

[szaleniec1000]

I was at school before anyone who wasn't a geek in my town had internet access, there were no Chick tracts or fundamentalists on TV telling us that we'd burn in hell for playing D&D, and nobody at school cared about anyone else's hobbies. (Unless, of course, they supported the wrong football team.) I never found out either that there was supposed to be something wrong with playing RPGs, or that playing RPGs should somehow become a major part of your identity, until long after I left school. To this day I don't honestly understand either position. It's always just been something to do. A form of escapism, no different from reading, watching TV or for that matter video games.

 

[Erie Isle RP inSL]

I like that Greg referenced the "culture". I think it's worth noting that RP has a wink-nudge/secret-club appeal to certain people. Those people might not be nearly as enthusiastic about their hobby if roleplaying had mainstream acceptance.

It's a catch 22 really. We'd love to have more people come play with us, but certainly not at the expense of losing creative thinkers that identify with, and enjoy being on the fringe.

 

[Croaker42]

Some way to play these games without actually meeting in person would be a good start. Some sort of webcam-group would be nice.

As you said, a new player can't really be asked to DM a game. So if there are no nearby players, then you can't start playing, and if you don't start, you can't be a DM eventually, therefore there will be no groups, so people can't start... Self repeating cycle!

The location barrier has kept me out of the game so far. I tried some play by post, but it took ~6 months for one battle to play out. Some sort of webcam type setup for people with no nearby groups would help with that.

Check out http://www.rptools.net/ It has a few programs that allow for internet hosted tabletop gaming. I havn't quite figured them out but they seem like a good idea. They would ceartainly cut down on a 6mo battle time.

I should really take the time to learn these tools. They would make for a great escapist PnP gaming option.