The Stigma of Role-Playing Must Die!

[0over0]

PnP RPGs have some built-in disincentives to play:

1) They require a comfortable GM (who preferably knows the rules quite well, can be a good host, is objective and even-tempered, can tell a good story, is not shy, can do a little acting, can improvise, can listen to others' concerns, can adjudicate--already most people, let alone most gamers, fail).

2) It's very time intensive. You don't really get together for an hour--the way you can with a videogame. Generall 3+ hours are taken up, once a week--that's a big time commitment.


3) You can't have huge numbers play, and too few isn't as fun (for some, personally, I don't mind 1 on 1). Optimal number is 4-5 I think for most people.

4) Players are not easily replaced--not only can it take months to find a comfortable person to fill in, but they have to be worked into the story and brought up to speed somewhat with that particular campaign and whatever story has already happened.

In short, D&D takes dedication. That's not a bad thing per se, but given society's values, you can't expect it to be a fast-growing hobby.

 

[bakonslayer]

I like to call this the Heroes of Newerth effect. The difference (and reason that this is worth fighting for) is that Dungeons and Dragons is fun.

 

[Thee Prisoner]

Well there's your problem. Drop your liberal friends and get some libertarian friends (i.e. smart people). People act as if the moniker "liberal" immediately means open-minded when the reality is it's just closed-mindedness in a different way than "conservatives."

That sounds very closed minded of you.

 

[Bigsmith]

And also shit like this.

I have to agree with you on that, IMO i don't like how they record DnD sessions. its the same thing i have with larp, You can't make a judgement by watching a 5min clip of it on youtube you have to play it. *rant over*

Ah well, its a shame it isn't still viewed as Satanic. If it was i could go around scaring people with my Dmg.

 

[Tarkand]

2) It's very time intensive. You don't really get together for an hour--the way you can with a videogame. Generall 3+ hours are taken up, once a week--that's a big time commitment.

How is it a big time commitment really?

You don't have poker nights with the guys?

You don't raid on WoW?

You don't watch Hockey/Basketball/Football/Soccer/whatever sport every week? Sporting event usually last 3 hours, often more if you count pre and aft shows.

Most people already invest 3hours+ a week to a given hobby.

 

[Tarkand]

One of my biggest personal issue with D&D (and other rpgs) being stuck with such a stigma is that to me, it's ultimately just something to do while I hang out with my long time friends. We play D&D, we talk about stuff, ***** about our lives and it's just a way to let loose and have some fun.

The same way a lot of people play poker every Friday night.

But somehow because we're sitting around a table with dices and books instead of chips and cards, we're weird.

 

[Georgie_Leech]

Yet another interesting article on D&D. Man, now I'm wishing my old D&D games actually worked on my Laptop...

Incidentally, love the T-shirt. In NWN, you could turn PvP off, so that was basically my strategy. Sorcerors are awesome...

 

[Nigh Invulnerable]

2) It's very time intensive. You don't really get together for an hour--the way you can with a videogame. Generall 3+ hours are taken up, once a week--that's a big time commitment.

How is it a big time commitment really?

You don't have poker nights with the guys?

You don't raid on WoW?

You don't watch Hockey/Basketball/Football/Soccer/whatever sport every week? Sporting event usually last 3 hours, often more if you count pre and aft shows.

Most people already invest 3hours+ a week to a given hobby.

I think the person it's a big time commitment for is the DM. And since a good DM is rare enough as it is, finding one who can devote a decent amount of time to planning and prep can be difficult. Also, getting all the books for D&D can be rather costly.

 

[Miumaru]

I'd love to play pen and paper DnD, but my anti-social behavior makes that hard. I used to know people who played, and expressed my interest, but I was never invited.

 

[Kaihlik]

@blakfayt - try and find a system with easier rules to learn. My favourite system (40k roleplay games and WFRP 2nd edition) has two basic mechanics that if you know them you can play the game, the more complicated stuff can come later. Those mechanics are that to suceed at something you need to roll under your characteristic on a d100 whith modifiers for your level of skill of +0, +10 or +20 depending on how well trained you are and modifiers assigned by the GM dependent on difficulty.

The other one is that damage is the damage stated on the weapon - soak, which is the first digit of your toughness (Toughness 33 for example would be 3 soak) + you armour bonus - any weapon modifiers.

While the game is alot more complicated than that if you know those rules you can pick other things up along the way. Character creation is pretty simple as it involves randomly rolled stats and preset equipment.

Don't feel that D&D is your only option for Roleplaying games just because its the most poplular. There are plenty of other games out there alot of them better than D&D in different areas.

There is Paranoia, New World of Darkness, Exalted, GURPS, Call of Cthulu, 40k Roleplay, WFRP 3rd ed, Dragon Age, Serenity, Battlestar Galactica, A Song of Ice and Fire and many many more. Just pick one thats right for you and your group, one that matches with your interests pretty well and has a level of complexity that suits you. If your not sure about a system ask around online or go to a gamestore and ask for advice.

Kaihlik

 

[LordKiwi]

If DMing, time constraints, lots of rules and planning are all problems then people need to look at games that support that, rather than just seeing D&D and giving up. There are plenty of good ones out there... Polaris, Universalis, Fiasco, Shab-al-Hiri Roach and more, it's just they usually get overlooked.

There are also plenty of games that don't deal with 'geeky' sci-fi or fantasy, for instance Grey Ranks, Breaking the Ice, Dogs in the Vineyard and Fiasco (again).

 

[miezebieze]

In germany, a well known red-top/tabloid newspaper stigmatized goths as satanists too, what was followed by a low tide of the scene in the nineties. The stigmata /are/ still there, but look! Today, there're so many (so called goth) mainstream musicians, though it's not the same...- it has changed; like gaming has changed...- You know? I stop now, because the terms seem not to be compareable by logic.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

My experience of adult RPD was excellent, was a gathering of around 4-7 people, the GM was adaptable enough to say 'Elron has been called away by his clan, you'll need to continue your work without him' and just continue the game if someone couldn't be there, and it was really a social event, with drinks, snacks and friends all around a table enjoying the evening, and one or two or us may have been geeky, (me, heh), but 3 of the regulars were women, and 2 of the other players were regular sports fans who'd found something new and fun in our weekly Cthulhu sessions.

On top of that, the GM knew I was a shy, inhibited kind of person, so for my own good, he'd push me into leading the group and roleplaying more, which could be tough but in the end was kind of liberating!

He also had his own rule where he'd give out points for ingenious solutions, or good roleplaying, therefore encouraging people to throw themselves into the game and not try to solve everything with violence.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Well firstly, in your picture you're missing a 4 sided die for you magic missiles and dagger damage rolls. Secondly, I think you're over reacting. I STARTED as a DM, anyone can try it, and I play AD&D! But living in Australia is probably the reason why it's so easy for me. We have this cool store called "Tin Soldier" which specialises in supplies for tabltop games and even has a back room which you can just use for playing whatever you want. So I guess our situation is different to yours.

There is Paranoia, New World of Darkness, Exalted, GURPS, Call of Cthulu, 40k Roleplay, WFRP 3rd ed, Dragon Age, Serenity, Battlestar Galactica, A Song of Ice and Fire and many many more. Just pick one thats right for you and your group, one that matches with your interests pretty well and has a level of complexity that suits you. If your not sure about a system ask around online or go to a gamestore and ask for advice.

Kaihlik

Serenity RPG is VERY good.

 

[bjj hero]

tabletop gaming looks kinda cool. Then I look through the windows of Games Workshop & realise why I will never go further then painting the lil figurines.

sports looks kinda cool. Then I saw a game of football on T.V. and realised why I never play a game where the goal is to grab a huge sweaty dude and through him to the ground

see what I did there?

It is no less of a barrier just because it applies to multiple hobbies. I'm guessing you don't play football so the barrier kept you out, the same way Cousin_IT never started table top games. The biggest difference is that sport is everywhere, often done by the "in crowd", people get girls, earn fortunes and get fame because of the sports they play. Roleplay doesn't have the same obvious incentives. Im not saying there is no benefit to RP, its just not as visible as sport.

I train martial arts and know that seeing the training, watching meat heads in the gym training with aggression (Im 150lbs btw, im in good shape but dont look a monster), the odd bloody nose or big take down scares a lot of people off. Then you lose more when they start, find out it will take a long time to get good and that its hard work.

2) It's very time intensive. You don't really get together for an hour--the way you can with a videogame. Generall 3+ hours are taken up, once a week--that's a big time commitment.

How is it a big time commitment really?

You don't have poker nights with the guys?

You don't raid on WoW?

You don't watch Hockey/Basketball/Football/Soccer/whatever sport every week? Sporting event usually last 3 hours, often more if you count pre and aft shows.

Most people already invest 3hours+ a week to a given hobby.

If you think that most people already have a 3 hour+ hobby of their own an extra 3+ hours a week is a big ask. Look at it this way. I used to DM when younger. I no longer do as I train mixed martial arts 6+ hours a week, work up to 50 hours a week, am a full time father to a (nearly)2 year old boy and a full time (almost) husband. I also have to fit my videogaming in at some point.

An extra 3+ hours a week, at a time that is also compatible with 4-5 other people is a massive commitment. Then if you DM you need plenty of prep time on top.

 

[Seneschal]

I'm not sure the stigma transferred well over the Atlantic. I was introduced to D&D seven years ago by a group of veteran players, and most of them didn't fit the stereotype. Actually, beforehand I though they were serious party monsters. And afterwards, whenever we offered someone to join the group, they'd be interested - random people, someone's friend, someone's girlfriend, makes no difference. Not everyone was devoted, but I've yet to meet a person who isn't enticed by the thought.

Actually, recently a group of friends spontaneously asked if they could join my group, and now we're so numerous we have to split in two campaigns. They don't fit the stereotype either. In fact, throughout my life I've met people that surprised me when they mentioned they play videogames/D&D/Magic: The Gathering, etc. I guess it's all kinda new here, and comes with no stigma attached, so people just try it out with no prejudice.

Well, the people here were never exposed to any controversy, and most people still don't know about roleplaying. An added bonus is the ridiculous simplicity of D&D 4th edition, which became our default system for introducing new players.

 

[Tigbun]

Honestly lots of people have problems adapting to other personas and really getting into the idea of making a story and playing a game that doesn't require constant electrical stimuli. I mostly believe the change was part of the large WoW epidemic, where playing a fantastic person or creature became more common place even if it seriously lacked story.

No matter how hard you try as a DM, it is always going to be hard to get the one person who just wants to kill things into the main story and develop a growing in game person who has more on his mind that just the monsters at hand.