The Surge in LGBT rainbow characters - AKA: The New Demographic and why its happening.

[Thaluikhain]

Others have spoken to you about civil rights, I guess now you have a better idea of just how much protection those rights afford some people when someone else wants cross that line. Not everyone is treated equally in the U.S. They should be, but they are not, even when the law is involved, they are not. Beyond that no one has the right to go to college for instance. A badly timed confession of ones sexual orientation could very well leave a person without the opertunity to create a good life for themselves after loosing their parents support. If someone decided that it was better to wait a while, or not speak at all, to their parents about their orientation because they had a reason to fear that they would be cut off I couldn't fault them at all.

Which just reinforces that any "privilege" I live under, is geographical in nature, and not as a result of my genetics.

Certainly, privilege is a matter of how normal or not you seem to be by society, and society in different parts of the world and at different times have viewed these things differently.

Even in your own (or any other) country, though, some have more and different privileges than others.

 

[MrFalconfly]

Others have spoken to you about civil rights, I guess now you have a better idea of just how much protection those rights afford some people when someone else wants cross that line. Not everyone is treated equally in the U.S. They should be, but they are not, even when the law is involved, they are not. Beyond that no one has the right to go to college for instance. A badly timed confession of ones sexual orientation could very well leave a person without the opertunity to create a good life for themselves after loosing their parents support. If someone decided that it was better to wait a while, or not speak at all, to their parents about their orientation because they had a reason to fear that they would be cut off I couldn't fault them at all.

Which just reinforces that any "privilege" I live under, is geographical in nature, and not as a result of my genetics.

Certainly, privilege is a matter of how normal or not you seem to be by society, and society in different parts of the world and at different times have viewed these things differently.

Even in your own (or any other) country, though, some have more and different privileges than others.

Well sure, people with a job at Maersk have the privilege of being rich enough to drive around in Jaguars, or Ferraris in a country where car prices are triple of everywhere else in the world.

 

[MorphBallBomb]

Didn't read the thread beyond the first page.

I'm siding with the users that are fine with a gay Mortal Kombat character.

Maybe it's pandering. So what? Not like there aren't gaymers out there.

"Opposing the SJW" is a stupid stance to default to, because you will shoot yourself in the foot disagreeing with everything someone says because of politics, no matter what.

 

[Silvanus]

If I had to guess, I would say somewhere close to zero.

Apparently the faschist SNWs are to blame for this imaginary surge in LGBT characters.

Social... nuance warrior?

 

[Vault101]

Does anyone here really believe that companies like marvel, EA or DC really have equal representation in mind when they rewrite characters as gay or turn male characters into female ones or jampack their games so full of LGBT characters that it looks like some deranged version of pokemon (gotta include them all!)?
)

wow that's...borderline disrespectful but whatever

so cynical marketing and blatant pandering are ok for when its the "RIGHT" demographic? cause you can't tell me a majority of AAA games (ala white bro Mcdude Aiden Peirce) aren't cynical marketing decisions, I mean for gods sake look at the original gears of war that's every adolescent males wet musclebound dream

ALL companies involved in commercial fiction are there to make money, some obviously have more passion in the end product than others (ie a small comics press compared to the heads in EA)


so what if the inclusivity in Dragon Age Inquisition was "blatant pandering" I get to play as a ladie who likes other ladies [b/]who the hell cares??[/b] they're appealing to a wider audience I'd call that a smart business dicsion if we HAVE to judge everything via capitalism [footnote/]I'm one of those crazy people who doesn't think that's the only reason you should diversify media but hey what do I know[/footnote]

or lady thor *apparently* that's bad because its pandering to "SJW8" (because got forbid we expect people to read about those who are different from them, gosh that's just mean) but pandering to the SAME ageing "core" superhero demographic as comics have done for the past few decades is all good and well? hell when your a medium struggling to remain relevant I'm sure that's a greeeeaat idea

the people in charge of Lady Thor obviously had fun with it, people LIKED it...that's what really matters [I/]the end product[/I]

it baffles and amuses me that people only notice this shit when it goes in a direction that isn't directly *for* them you think youre not being "pandered" to? no bro, you just mistook that for "normal"

 

[Silence]

I don't understand why it should be an "issue" or "pandering" in the specific case of MKX. All I heard about it was that this is a good backstory.

There are incredibly dumb examples of "faux diversity", but you take one that is not an issue at all?

It's like saying "Leliana from Dragon Age: Origins is pandering to bisexuals".
U wot mate?

And please don't use the quite specific term SJW for people who just want to have some representation. These are not SJWs.

 

[zarguhl]

I find it really weird that people take their sexuality as such a defining point of their identity. I'm a straight guy, but I don't think I've ever led a conversation off with anything to do with sex. I'm not a "Straight Male Gamer" or a "Straight Male Sci-Fi Fan". In fact if I were to list the top 10 things that I find define me as a person, I can't see my sexuality coming up at all. It isn't very interesting to me, or very important.

I find it especially weird in high fantasy computer games. You're playing a character whose purpose in life is to save the world by killing the great dragon or something, and your main defining trait is that you're a bisexual woman? When you walk up to people on the street after slaying the dragon, do you introduce yourself as the bisexual, female, dragonslayer? It's preposterous.

With the kind of deep plots that get into games these days, fantasy, sci-fi, dystopian futures and so on, I can't think of anything less interesting to spend valuable plot time on than a characters sexuality. It is about as exciting as making a story point on which direction they face their toilet roll.

It's a weird sign of the times that people are so feverishly obsessed with the sexuality of themselves and others. People vocally say it doesn't matter to them, yet utterly obsess over it in every area, from TV to games, movies, books, etc. Hell, why not just have a main character keep their private sex lives to themselves and get on with saving the world from eternal darkness? "Oh, Mr. Savior of the World, you're a straight male with a foot fetish?" That's fascinating, it really ads to my understanding of you as a person... No... No it doesn't.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

I find it really weird that people take their sexuality as such a defining point of their identity. I'm a straight guy, but I don't think I've ever led a conversation off with anything to do with sex. I'm not a "Straight Male Gamer" or a "Straight Male Sci-Fi Fan". In fact if I were to list the top 10 things that I find define me as a person, I can't see my sexuality coming up at all. It isn't very interesting to me, or very important.

I find it especially weird in high fantasy computer games. You're playing a character whose purpose in life is to save the world by killing the great dragon or something, and your main defining trait is that you're a bisexual woman? When you walk up to people on the street after slaying the dragon, do you introduce yourself as the bisexual, female, dragonslayer? It's preposterous.

With the kind of deep plots that get into games these days, fantasy, sci-fi, dystopian futures and so on, I can't think of anything less interesting to spend valuable plot time on than a characters sexuality. It is about as exciting as making a story point on which direction they face their toilet roll.

It's a weird sign of the times that people are so feverishly obsessed with the sexuality of themselves and others. People vocally say it doesn't matter to them, yet utterly obsess over it in every area, from TV to games, movies, books, etc. Hell, why not just have a main character keep their private sex lives to themselves and get on with saving the world from eternal darkness? "Oh, Mr. Savior of the World, you're a straight male with a foot fetish?" That's fascinating, it really ads to my understanding of you as a person... No... No it doesn't.

As a straight cisgender male you have possibly the best representation in gaming media, and most media as a rule. So your complaint actually kind of falls flat, because you can automatically identify with most protagonists. Even so if you play as a female character they're generally going to be straight too, which is again fairly well represented. Now you say sexuality doesn't matter... Well for gay men and lesbian women it actually does, as there are sectors of society that actively oppress them. Making it difficult to be yourself makes that sort of thing become a defining characteristic of your personality. Not because it's all that important to the person in question as a general rule, but because it's so important to society and many people find it wrong. I'm willing to bet that you don't worry on a daily basis about being beaten, or killed because of your sexuality, or gender identity.

Also sexuality can be an important story component for characters, as can gender identity. Even in Non-RPG games a persons sexuality, or gender identity can affect a lot of things. It can affect how other characters see them, what romance options they have, how driven they are to prove them selves in spite of being LGBTQ, and so on. It's also added representation for people who are very misunderstood, often hated, and very much under represented. Better representation(and by that I mean actually better, not just more) of minority groups in media can help them be seen as more normal, less to be afraid of, and it can help those minorities cope with them selves.

Granted there are plenty of genres where this can be moot. While Kung Jin's homosexuality might be really interesting backstory for a character... It's almost moot in a fighting game where all but the most hardcore fans pay attention to backstory. The way that they handled it for MKX was rather questionable in my opinion, and could have been done far better. Again it's a fighting game, where the actual canon varies from what happens in the in game fights, which means that either the game, or the story is a moot point. I will never understand why fighting games have massive canons, when said canon has nothing to do in actuality with the gameplay.

 

[Karadalis]

Social... nuance warrior?

Social network warriors

Because i refuse to put the word justice anywhere near the tumblr offense brigade. Justice is something positive... but these people are as much about justice as a good ol lynchmob in the wild west... including torches and pitchforks.

As for the mortal kombat character?

Hes cool, gay or not, dont care... but i find his bow rather silly...

Also:

First AAA game that allows you to brutally eviscerate a gay character... progress

Im surprised that there hasnt been an outcry of mysoginy and homophobia on twitter and tumblr allready.

 

[Silvanus]

It's a weird sign of the times that people are so feverishly obsessed with the sexuality of themselves and others. People vocally say it doesn't matter to them, yet utterly obsess over it in every area, from TV to games, movies, books, etc. Hell, why not just have a main character keep their private sex lives to themselves and get on with saving the world from eternal darkness? "Oh, Mr. Savior of the World, you're a straight male with a foot fetish?" That's fascinating, it really ads to my understanding of you as a person... No... No it doesn't.

It's almost as if being within an ostracised demographic can result in a very different personal journey, with associated emotional issues.

Ill bet there were those complaining in the same vein about Othello, or To Kill A Mockingbird. "Why does race matter? Why bring it up?"

 

[Thaluikhain]

I find it really weird that people take their sexuality as such a defining point of their identity. I'm a straight guy, but I don't think I've ever led a conversation off with anything to do with sex. I'm not a "Straight Male Gamer" or a "Straight Male Sci-Fi Fan". In fact if I were to list the top 10 things that I find define me as a person, I can't see my sexuality coming up at all. It isn't very interesting to me, or very important.

To you, yes, because Straight White Male is taken as the norm. Remember the Girl Gamer controversy (which has yet to fully go away)? It wasn't Girl Gamers as a separate group to Boy Gamers, it was Girls Gamers as a separate group to Gamers. Normal, ordinary gamers aren't girls.

With the kind of deep plots that get into games these days, fantasy, sci-fi, dystopian futures and so on, I can't think of anything less interesting to spend valuable plot time on than a characters sexuality. It is about as exciting as making a story point on which direction they face their toilet roll.

I don't see why sexuality shouldn't come up in a deep story, but assuming for the sake of argument, ok. If sexuality is so unimportant, would you be ok if every single character in every single game from now on was gay? Not necessarily making a big deal out of it, but everyone just happens to be gay.

 

[Metailurus]

Gaming needs more LGBT characters in the same way that the world needs more sporks. It doesn't, its fine as it is.

Should it come up in deep stories? Sure, why not. But not in every deep story.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Gaming needs more LGBT characters in the same way that the world needs more sporks. It doesn't, its fine as it is.

Fine for who?

Should it come up in deep stories? Sure, why not. But not in every deep story.

Don't think anyone was seriously suggesting that it should. But, again, what about getting rid of straight people except for the odd deep story? If the issue is unimportant, that shouldn't be a big deal.

 

[Metailurus]

Fine for who?

Fine for everyone except for the the tiny vocal minority who aren't happy with the status quo.

Don't think anyone was seriously suggesting that it should. But, again, what about getting rid of straight people except for the odd deep story? If the issue is unimportant, that shouldn't be a big deal.

Sure they could, and the developers behind those stories can also enjoy their studio's going bankrupt when no one buys their games as a lot of potential customers aren't interested in in-your-face social agenda being foisted upon them.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Sure they could, and the developers behind those stories can also enjoy their studio's going bankrupt when no one buys their games as a lot of potential customers aren't interested in in-your-face social agenda being foisted upon them.

So, sexuality is a big deal? Having all the same depictions of sexuality would annoy people? Funny that.

 

[Silvanus]

Fine for everyone except for the the tiny vocal minority who aren't happy with the status quo.

It must be great to be in that mindset; comfortable with a wide range of media catering to your demographic, and comfortably dismissive of the wishes of those outside to experience what you already have.

Sure they could, and the developers behind those stories can also enjoy their studio's going bankrupt when no one buys their games as a lot of potential customers aren't interested in in-your-face social agenda being foisted upon them

Y'believe lots of straight people would be unwilling to play gay protagonists?

...But also that gay people should just suck it up and be happy with solely straight protagonists, because it's totally unimportant (but only in that latter scenario)?

Where am I going wrong?

 

[Metailurus]

Sure they could, and the developers behind those stories can also enjoy their studio's going bankrupt when no one buys their games as a lot of potential customers aren't interested in in-your-face social agenda being foisted upon them.

So, sexuality is a big deal? Having all the same depictions of sexuality would annoy people? Funny that.

Is it? If its not, why does this thread exist? why are poems getting removed from games? why does it matter if some fictional mortal combat character, or fictional comic book character are gay? and why are we even having this discussion? If its not a big deal then why do we need more of it?

I'm not the one pushing for social (in)justice brand diversity. Maybe you or someone else can help explain why it's a big deal? I'd much rather it wasn't pushed by a vocal minority as supposedly being a problem in order that I can get on with the small matter of playing games.

It must be great to be in that mindset; comfortable with a wide range of media catering to your demographic, and comfortably dismissive of the wishes of those outside to experience what you already have.

It's grand, thanks. I like to reward the producers of such a wide range of media by spending many monies on it, as opposed to probably not otherwise. It's just a shame that I have to forgo some of that enjoyment to go onto forums to defend the fact that I enjoy it, and that I'm not in the wrong for doing so.

Y'believe lots of straight people would be unwilling to play gay protagonists?

Depends on how they are written, and how intrusively out there they actually are. A badly written shoehorned character is a game ruiner. There is a good reason why Hero Steve is our go to character of choice.

Lets be honest and call a spade a spade. If theres any legitimate argument to more protagonists of this type (i.e. not tribalistic social media circle jerking), its actually that the people who identify as LGBTABCDwhatever and are vocally complaining about Hero Steve as a protagonist, probably struggle to identify with playing as Hero Steve.

What makes you think that people who enjoy Hero Steve therefore, somehow wouldn't have the same problem with the type of protagonist that your various letter acronymed people want? Now ask yourself where the money to justify making that game is coming from.

...But also that gay people should just suck it up and be happy with solely straight protagonists, because it's totally unimportant (but only in that latter scenario)?

Where am I going wrong?

Sure, why not, if it makes you happy to think that, go for it.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Sure they could, and the developers behind those stories can also enjoy their studio's going bankrupt when no one buys their games as a lot of potential customers aren't interested in in-your-face social agenda being foisted upon them.

So, sexuality is a big deal? Having all the same depictions of sexuality would annoy people? Funny that.

Is it? If its not, why does this thread exist? why are poems getting removed from games? why does it matter if some fictional mortal combat character, or fictional comic book character are gay? and why are we even having this discussion? If its not a big deal then why do we need more of it?

This thread exists in part because gaming is growing up as a media force and people are beginning to use it as a political platform, instead of an artistic one

It must be great to be in that mindset; comfortable with a wide range of media catering to your demographic, and comfortably dismissive of the wishes of those outside to experience what you already have.

It's grand, thanks. I like to reward the producers of such a wide range of media by spending many monies on it, as opposed to probably not otherwise. It's just a shame that I have to forgo some of that enjoyment to go onto forums to defend the fact that I enjoy it, and that I'm not in the wrong for doing so.

So what exactly is wrong in your mind with producers and creators more importantly being more inclusive?

Y'believe lots of straight people would be unwilling to play gay protagonists?

Depends on how they are written, and how intrusively out there they actually are. A badly written shoehorned character is a game ruiner. There is a good reason why Hero Steve is our go to character of choice.

Lets be honest and call a spade a spade. If theres any legitimate argument to more protagonists of this type (i.e. not tribalistic social media circle jerking), its actually that the people who identify as LGBTABCDwhatever and are vocally complaining about Hero Steve as a protagonist, probably struggle to identify with playing as Hero Steve.

What makes you think that people who enjoy Hero Steve therefore, somehow wouldn't have the same problem with the type of protagonist that your various letter acronymed people want? Now ask yourself where the money to justify making that game is coming from.

Badly writen Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, and Queer(LBGTQ) characters are bad in more ways than one. They're bad because they give straight people a bad impression of these minorities and insulting to the minority as a whole.

As a person who is not cisgender myself is it some how wrong for me to want to see more transgender and gender queer characters who aren't played as offensive comedy characters? Seriously if you do this to any racial minority it sparks a huge backlash. Do it to trans and gender queer characters, gay and lesbian characters too for that matter... You generally get a pass. Still what's wrong with a minority wanting better representation?

What makes you think that the problem is entirely in weather or not identifies with a leading character is the number one issue? I don't have to fully identify with a character to enjoy playing as them. That still doesn't mean that wanting more inclusion of LGBTQ characters is some how exclusionary to you. We want inclusion, you're arguing for further exclusion.

If you're saying there is no way you could ever identify with a character who isn't straight and cisgender, maybe you're the one with issues?

...But also that gay people should just suck it up and be happy with solely straight protagonists, because it's totally unimportant (but only in that latter scenario)?

Where am I going wrong?

Sure, why not, if it makes you happy.

Because that doesn't make the people who are being marginalized and excluded happy.

So why are you arguing for their continued exclusion if it's not all that important? If it's not important then there is no argument against further inclusion of characters who are different from you, right?

 

[Thaluikhain]

Maybe you or someone else can help explain why it's a big deal? I'd much rather it wasn't pushed by a vocal minority as supposedly being a problem in order that I can get on with the small matter of playing games.

If you'd much rather nothing changed then it is apparently a big deal to you. Is it surprising that it is a big deal to others? Especially as you are going to have plenty of games catering you in any case, and the reverse isn't the case.