Robin breaking necks, Starfire burning somebody alive, and Dove ripping off somebody's eyes, all in one trailer, has pretty much destroyed any interest I had in this show.
See, I'd have no problem with Titans being used to tell dark or mature stories in theory. But I don't think people whose idea of being mature is to have Robin saying "Fuck Batman" can really tell that kind of story. It's just going to look like terrible terrible fanfiction written by an edgy teenager
Perhaps that is EXACTLY what they are going for and trying to appeal to because in my late teens I have read a ton of fanfiction, mostly of Danny Phantom and Teen Titans and both are equally dark and edgy, and fanfics are written and read a lot of people.
I remember this one from Teen Titans where an entire epic plot began with Robin getting anally raped by Slade (even though appearently they were brainwashed by some OC villain to do it) then another chapter of the story involved an edgy romance between Robin and Raven because fuck Beastboy and Starfire RxR is the OTP, and then time travel happened.
And this one from Danny Phantom where Danny in his Ghost Form is captured by his parents and experiamented on brutally, then he becomes extremely edgy, then he has sex with Sam, and after a conflict, he commits suicide by a gunshot to the head, only to come back to life through fanficcy bullshit and everything was happily ever after.
I'm sorry are you genuinely trying to say "Shazam, a child in an adult's body, acts like a child" is the same as "Robin, a child in a child's body, is anally raped"? Is that what you're doing here?You're free to dislike the trailer for Shazam but seriously, dude, there's levels here. Get some perspective
In the end I am incapable changing my perspective because I like my perspective.
I think this Shazam is stupid kids stuff, and if that was the point, they succeed, but its not for me and not what I want for all DC.
I am not asking for Superman to be anally raped, no. I am just asking for DC to have the drama, depth and complexities and overall seriousness in their stories and charcaters to the likes of The Sopranos, Game of Thrones, and Watchmen. Basically I want Superheroes to be for adults, I have long since outgrown Superheroes as kids stuff.
I can't comment on Winter Soldier, but the others...no. Not really.
Age of Ultron doesn't deal with any kind of themes or ideas of substance. Ultron is the stereotypical "humanity sucks so I'm going to remake the world" villain - that isn't some kind of insightful theme. Thor Ragnarok, at best, touches on the idea of colonialism and whitewashing of history...for about a single scene. Civil War alludes to the ideas of oversight vs. personal accountability, but again, doesn't really do anything with them. The themes are background dressing at the end of the day. The only MCU film I've seen that deals with any kind of weighty films (or at least does them beyond window dressing) is Iron Man 3, and given how the MCU has pretty much disowned that film, I doubt we'll be seeing anything like it again.
As I said in my review of Ant-Man and the Wasp, I think Marvel should stop trying for the heavy stuff, because when they go for the fun, light-hearted stuff like Homecoming and Ant-Man/Wasp, they do great. When they try to go for the heavy stuff, they tend to bomb - months on and they're still pulling explanations out of their arse to cover for the fact that Thanos's plan makes no sense.
....... Ok you have a point. Although in Age of Ultron I don't think Ultron himself was really the issue, but more the situations that led to his creation. Still given the choice between the Marvel movies and Grim City, I'll take Marvel.
In the end I am incapable changing my perspective because I like my perspective.
I think this Shazam is stupid kids stuff, and if that was the point, they succeed, but its not for me and not what I want for all DC.
I am not asking for Superman to be anally raped, no. I am just asking for DC to have the drama, depth and complexities and overall seriousness in their stories and charcaters to the likes of The Sopranos, Game of Thrones, and Watchmen. Basically I want Superheroes to be for adults, I have long since outgrown Superheroes as kids stuff.
Word to the wise, but circular logic like your first sentence and calling things "kids stuff" really just makes you look like a giant child. And also, of all the things to deride as being kids stuff...superheroes? They were originally for children, and are still designed to appeal mostly to the younger generation. Of course they are going to be kid friendly. The ones that gear themselves towards adults are the exception not the rule
In the end I am incapable changing my perspective because I like my perspective.
I think this Shazam is stupid kids stuff, and if that was the point, they succeed, but its not for me and not what I want for all DC.
I am not asking for Superman to be anally raped, no. I am just asking for DC to have the drama, depth and complexities and overall seriousness in their stories and charcaters to the likes of The Sopranos, Game of Thrones, and Watchmen. Basically I want Superheroes to be for adults, I have long since outgrown Superheroes as kids stuff.
Word to the wise, but circular logic like your first sentence and calling things "kids stuff" really just makes you look like a giant child. And also, of all the things to deride as being kids stuff...superheroes? They were originally for children, and are still designed to appeal mostly to the younger generation. Of course they are going to be kid friendly. The ones that gear themselves towards adults are the exception not the rule
I want to be a rule, at least co-existiing with the established one. There is an untapped potential for adult Superhero stories that I want to see happen. And just because the likes of BvS and Titans fails does not mean I want it to stop.
Robin breaking necks, Starfire burning somebody alive, and Dove ripping off somebody's eyes, all in one trailer, has pretty much destroyed any interest I had in this show.
See, I'd have no problem with Titans being used to tell dark or mature stories in theory. But I don't think people whose idea of being mature is to have Robin saying "Fuck Batman" can really tell that kind of story. It's just going to look like terrible terrible fanfiction written by an edgy teenager
Perhaps that is EXACTLY what they are going for and trying to appeal to because in my late teens I have read a ton of fanfiction, mostly of Danny Phantom and Teen Titans and both are equally dark and edgy, and fanfics are written and read a lot of people.
I remember this one from Teen Titans where an entire epic plot began with Robin getting anally raped by Slade (even though appearently they were brainwashed by some OC villain to do it) then another chapter of the story involved an edgy romance between Robin and Raven because fuck Beastboy and Starfire RxR is the OTP, and then time travel happened.
And this one from Danny Phantom where Danny in his Ghost Form is captured by his parents and experiamented on brutally, then he becomes extremely edgy, then he has sex with Sam, and after a conflict, he commits suicide by a gunshot to the head, only to come back to life through fanficcy bullshit and everything was happily ever after.
I'm sorry are you genuinely trying to say "Shazam, a child in an adult's body, acts like a child" is the same as "Robin, a child in a child's body, is anally raped"? Is that what you're doing here?You're free to dislike the trailer for Shazam but seriously, dude, there's levels here. Get some perspective
In the end I am incapable changing my perspective because I like my perspective.
I think this Shazam is stupid kids stuff, and if that was the point, they succeed, but its not for me and not what I want for all DC.
I am not asking for Superman to be anally raped, no. I am just asking for DC to have the drama, depth and complexities and overall seriousness in their stories and charcaters to the likes of The Sopranos, Game of Thrones, and Watchmen. Basically I want Superheroes to be for adults, I have long since outgrown Superheroes as kids stuff.
Having a sense of humor and a general hopeful tone doesn't mean it's exclusively for kids. Some of us (i.e. me) enjoy superheroes because they valorize the good in people, and show that through perseverance and self sacrifice virtue and justice can overcome even the darkest of circumstances. It really seems like you equate swearing and violence with "adult" which just comes off as immature.
Samtemdo8 said:
In the end I am incapable changing my perspective because I like my perspective
Although, when you make statements like this I question why I even responded in the first place. There's no point in having a "discussion" that is just you sounding off into the void.
Robin breaking necks, Starfire burning somebody alive, and Dove ripping off somebody's eyes, all in one trailer, has pretty much destroyed any interest I had in this show.
See, I'd have no problem with Titans being used to tell dark or mature stories in theory. But I don't think people whose idea of being mature is to have Robin saying "Fuck Batman" can really tell that kind of story. It's just going to look like terrible terrible fanfiction written by an edgy teenager
Perhaps that is EXACTLY what they are going for and trying to appeal to because in my late teens I have read a ton of fanfiction, mostly of Danny Phantom and Teen Titans and both are equally dark and edgy, and fanfics are written and read a lot of people.
I remember this one from Teen Titans where an entire epic plot began with Robin getting anally raped by Slade (even though appearently they were brainwashed by some OC villain to do it) then another chapter of the story involved an edgy romance between Robin and Raven because fuck Beastboy and Starfire RxR is the OTP, and then time travel happened.
And this one from Danny Phantom where Danny in his Ghost Form is captured by his parents and experiamented on brutally, then he becomes extremely edgy, then he has sex with Sam, and after a conflict, he commits suicide by a gunshot to the head, only to come back to life through fanficcy bullshit and everything was happily ever after.
I'm sorry are you genuinely trying to say "Shazam, a child in an adult's body, acts like a child" is the same as "Robin, a child in a child's body, is anally raped"? Is that what you're doing here?You're free to dislike the trailer for Shazam but seriously, dude, there's levels here. Get some perspective
In the end I am incapable changing my perspective because I like my perspective.
I think this Shazam is stupid kids stuff, and if that was the point, they succeed, but its not for me and not what I want for all DC.
I am not asking for Superman to be anally raped, no. I am just asking for DC to have the drama, depth and complexities and overall seriousness in their stories and charcaters to the likes of The Sopranos, Game of Thrones, and Watchmen. Basically I want Superheroes to be for adults, I have long since outgrown Superheroes as kids stuff.
Having a sense of humor and a general hopeful tone doesn't mean it's exclusively for kids. Some of us (i.e. me) enjoy superheroes because they valorize the good in people, and show that through perseverance and self sacrifice virtue and justice can overcome even the darkest of circumstances. It really seems like you equate swearing and violence with "adult" which just comes off as immature.
I NEVER equated that Swearing and Violence alone with "Adult". I even felt it was out of place for Game of Thrones when they said Fuck, shit, and **** initially watching it because it feels weird seeing a Medieval setting and characters saying it.
The examples of dark and mature stories you gave are exactly why fanfiction is a cesspool of garbage that no one should ever read, ever.
The DC Dark & Gritty, Mature films are 100% Teen Angst Dark and Gritty, Mature films. As in the colours are washed out, and they're as mature as brett who works at Hot Topic but one day hopes his band will get gigs other than his parents garage. And I say that as someone who mostly enjoyed the DC entries as blockbuster popcorn flicks.
Amusingly, Marvel has actually done a better job at telling mature stories, they just tell jokes and have colour, so they dont count, I guess? Like, to flick through a couple...
GoG2 had a guy with lifelong abandonment issues, finally find his dad! Then push away his friends, due to that connection. Then discover his dad willingly killed his mother, because it was inconvenient to love her.
BP was about leaving a child in poverty, only to then find that growing up homeless on the streets makes for some pretty shitty morals, but do give pause to consider the attitude of 'Fuck everyone else, we get ours' international policy.
Ultron had a bunch of messy ethics shit about the creation of life, the aftermath of their superhero battles, which bled into civil war where they (tony) needed to really look at how their (tonys) actions were impacting the world, and considering if their (tonys) decisions could use a little more oversight, because my god they keep fucking shit up.
Were these things done well? Not always? Did they have jokes mixed in? Sure. Were they at least attempts at mature stories/motivations? Waaaaaaaaay more than DC, which has mistaken dark and edgy for mature.
Dark doesnt mean better, and often undermines the ability to tell a mature story. When the world is grimdark, even when genuinely mature stories are hit upon, they are washed out by how terrible everything is. In a world of angst, what could be some dramatic tension and character building, comes across as just another side dish of angst.
The examples of dark and mature stories you gave are exactly why fanfiction is a cesspool of garbage that no one should ever read, ever.
The DC Dark & Gritty, Mature films are 100% Teen Angst Dark and Gritty, Mature films. As in the colours are washed out, and they're as mature as brett who works at Hot Topic but one day hopes his band will get gigs other than his parents garage. And I say that as someone who mostly enjoyed the DC entries as blockbuster popcorn flicks.
Amusingly, Marvel has actually done a better job at telling mature stories, they just tell jokes and have colour, so they dont count, I guess? Like, to flick through a couple...
GoG2 had a guy with lifelong abandonment issues, finally find his dad! Then push away his friends, due to that connection. Then discover his dad willingly killed his mother, because it was inconvenient to love her.
BP was about leaving a child in poverty, only to then find that growing up homeless on the streets makes for some pretty shitty morals, but do give pause to consider the attitude of 'Fuck everyone else, we get ours' international policy.
Ultron had a bunch of messy ethics shit about the creation of life, the aftermath of their superhero battles, which bled into civil war where they (tony) needed to really look at how their (tonys) actions were impacting the world, and considering if their (tonys) decisions could use a little more oversight, because my god they keep fucking shit up.
Were these things done well? Not always? Did they have jokes mixed in? Sure. Were they at least attempts at mature stories/motivations? Waaaaaaaaay more than DC, which has mistaken dark and edgy for mature.
Dark doesnt mean better, and often undermines the ability to tell a mature story. When the world is grimdark, even when genuinely mature stories are hit upon, they are washed out by how terrible everything is. In a world of angst, what could be some dramatic tension and character building, comes across as just another side dish of angst.
Most of Marvel's movie output isn't mature. If DC's issues are that they mistake dark and edgy for mature, Marvel's issues is they don't take anything nearly seriously enough to be mature for the most part. Black Panther and the netflix shows avert this entirely but most of their movies have that issue.
I should also point out that this trailer doesn't show the entirety of the series.
None of the characters portrayed in that trailer are escaping with their reputations intact. Starfire's design is lazy and stupid and pity the poor woman trying (probably in vain) to work with it. Robin is being a total asshole, so of course he gets the best costume. Dove, a pacifist of some repute is clawing a dude's face off. Man, I hope they're trying to play us all for chumps and this is Trigon just giving them the worst possible views of themselves.
None of the characters portrayed in that trailer are escaping with their reputations intact. Starfire's design is lazy and stupid and pity the poor woman trying (probably in vain) to work with it. Robin is being a total asshole, so of course he gets the best costume. Dove, a pacifist of some repute is clawing a dude's face off. Man, I hope they're trying to play us all for chumps and this is Trigon just giving them the worst possible views of themselves.
None of the characters portrayed in that trailer are escaping with their reputations intact. Starfire's design is lazy and stupid and pity the poor woman trying (probably in vain) to work with it. Robin is being a total asshole, so of course he gets the best costume. Dove, a pacifist of some repute is clawing a dude's face off. Man, I hope they're trying to play us all for chumps and this is Trigon just giving them the worst possible views of themselves.
Why does everyone keep calling Dove, particularly the Dove this show is based on, a pacifist? In the comics, she dropped a chandelier on a bunch of criminals to get to a bomb and once stabbed a villain with her own sword. The idea of a pacifist superhero is an oxymoron. Starfire doesn't look like this for the entire show and Robin being an asshole to an extent is nothing new and at least this one only seems to be an asshole to his enemies rather than his friends.
So is this in the DC Arrowverse, or the movie continuity?
Why can't they hit the sweet spot with the Teen Titans anymore? The cartoon was pretty good about balancing being dark and light-hearted. Granted I wasn't exactly a big fan of the anime style-but the storylines and characters were pretty good.
None of the characters portrayed in that trailer are escaping with their reputations intact. Starfire's design is lazy and stupid and pity the poor woman trying (probably in vain) to work with it. Robin is being a total asshole, so of course he gets the best costume. Dove, a pacifist of some repute is clawing a dude's face off. Man, I hope they're trying to play us all for chumps and this is Trigon just giving them the worst possible views of themselves.
Why does everyone keep calling Dove, particularly the Dove this show is based on, a pacifist? In the comics, she dropped a chandelier on a bunch of criminals to get to a bomb and once stabbed a villain with her own sword. The idea of a pacifist superhero is an oxymoron. Starfire doesn't look like this for the entire show and Robin being an asshole to an extent is nothing new and at least this one only seems to be an asshole to his enemies rather than his friends.
Because its mainly an attitude I associate with Jason Todd rather than Dick Grayson. As for Dove, the character as I remember them was a form of pacifist hence why they were paired with Hawk. As for Starfire, if this is a temporary look, why is it being so prominent on the promotional materials. Then again, perhaps you're right: I'm getting a distinct whiff of the largely failed New52 here.
BaronVonVaderHam said:
So is this in the DC Arrowverse, or the movie continuity?
Why can't they hit the sweet spot with the Teen Titans anymore? The cartoon was pretty good about balancing being dark and light-hearted. Granted I wasn't exactly a big fan of the anime style-but the storylines and characters were pretty good.
Because its mainly an attitude I associate with Jason Todd rather than Dick Grayson. As for Dove, the character as I remember them was a form of pacifist hence why they were paired with Hawk.
Because its mainly an attitude I associate with Jason Todd rather than Dick Grayson. As for Dove, the character as I remember them was a form of pacifist hence why they were paired with Hawk.
That seems a really odd thing to keep behind a spoiler. In fact I can't think of anything about any of the characters' costumes that would constitute a a critical plot point. Oh well, it looks like garbage and I won't be paying for it so c'est la vie.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
