The TF2 updates

[ReepNeep]

Blutsauger: The Blutsauger isn't really more powerful than the standard nailgun. Crit chance is determined by the number of points you've scored since your last spawn and medics can score quite highly. The loss of crits is a pretty big hit to the Blut's killing power. Still, I think they should give it a slight damage penalty (maybe 5-10%?) just to further offset the healing ability. I still use the nailgun occasionally and it really isn't any worse. This one is a pretty close match, but the Blutsauger is a bit better.

Kritzkrieg: The Kritzkrieg doesn't work because of engineers, not being ganked by multiple people. The Uber is primarily used as a siege-breaker and its really the only viable option against sentrygun clusterfuckery like you end up with at certain spots in dustbowl. An uber can give a demo, pyro, heavy and even sometimes a soldier a good shot at killing a couple of SGs. That won't work with a Kritz because engineer buildings take standard damage from critical hits. I still see them occasionally, but rarely use one. I also much prefer a standard Uber when I'm on the recieving end. If they fix the Kritz vs. Engie problem, it will be more than useful.

Ubersaw: I disagree with you on the ubersaw. The lower ROF combined with the fact that hitting someone with it throws them back several feet (or more if they're jumping) has gotten me killed on multiple occasions. I'm seriously considering switching back to the bonesaw as I'm a rather melee-happy medic. This one boils down to purely personal preference.

Flare Gun: The Flare Gun is perfect, don't even think about touching it. It has two jobs: giving the pyro a viable ranged attack, and disrupting enemy formations by forcing people to run get health instead of staying for the battle. It does both of these jobs masterfully. That said, I don't use the thing except under very rare circumstances (irritating snipers that I can't reach with my flamer) because I miss my shotgun against rival pyros. Once again a good alternative to the existing weapon.

Backburner: Once they took the extra 50hp off of the backburner, its very well matched with the standard flamer. I definitely prefer the burner though, because I'm a sneaky bastard. With a bit of luck and proper tactics, a good pyro with a backburner can totally dominate the other team. Crit fire kills way too fast when properly aimed for most people to get shots on you before they go down. After using it for a few weeks I've started setting kill records again. Its much more deadly than the standard flamer if you know how to use it. That said, the sneeze attack is crazy useful for defensive pyros as they can totally shut down uber demos and pyros coming for your engineer's buildings. You can also knock medics off of ledges to seperate them from their patients or knock people into an SG's field of fire. Since the flamers have been tweaked and rebalanced, they're fucking perfect.

Axetinguisher: As for the axetinguisher, don't set them on fire till you're close enough to hit them with the axe, silly! Still, it isn't worth a damn thing underwater so unless you have a shotgun, you need the standard axe. The basic axe actually does something to other pyros as well. Another one down to preference.

Four out of six isn't bad, is it?

 

[Shadow Tyrant]

I don't know. It kind of feels like they're unbalancing the game with all the new stuff. All the time playtesting and balancing the current set-up, and now they're throwing it off by adding things. I'm sure they're playtesting these as well, but I just don't know how well it's going to work. I'm sure they'll iron it out eventually, but I think at first it's going to be pretty awkward.

It doesn't matter to me, though. I have the 360 version.

 

[The Wooster]

There's a guy in my clan who swears by the kritzkrieg for defensive play.

 

[milskidasith]

Kritzkrieg for defence is a useful strategy, but only if you are ubering soldiers, demoes, or, in some cases, heavies.

Kritzkrieg soldier: You just have him pop and rocket, but they kill anybody with less than ~150 HP just on splash damage. Great for stopping cart runs.

Kritzkrieg demo: Have you SEEN what throwing multiple crit stickies across a field of enemies, a chokepoint, or on the cart can do?

Kritzkrieg heavy: This one is iffy. It makes the heavy have a lot more range, because he's hitting great damage with his few hits, but it isn't nearly as useful in close range where most people STILL can beat the heavy by running around him.

IE: The only use for it is with long range/indirect fire. Actually sending a kritzkrieged person into combat is asking for them to get killed.

 

[friedmetroid]

Well they're free, so presumably Valve isn't going to spend many of its resources on content that is unlikely to generate additional money.

They have a free weekend for the game with each update. Those free weekends have inspired quite a few people I know to buy the game. I'd say these updates are generating some money, if not directly.

As for the updates themselves... for all the talk Valve's made about how easy it is to balance the weapons against an already balanced set, every unlockable weapon to come out with the exception of the Critzkrieg has been ridiculously unbalanced until patched. As of the Pyro update I can't even stand to play this game anymore, since getting within 5 meters of a Pyro as a Scout equals nearly instant death.

 

[PlaylistOne]

Kritzkrieg for defence is a useful strategy, but only if you are ubering soldiers, demoes, or, in some cases, heavies.

Kritzkrieg soldier: You just have him pop and rocket, but they kill anybody with less than ~150 HP just on splash damage. Great for stopping cart runs.

Kritzkrieg demo: Have you SEEN what throwing multiple crit stickies across a field of enemies, a chokepoint, or on the cart can do?

Kritzkrieg heavy: This one is iffy. It makes the heavy have a lot more range, because he's hitting great damage with his few hits, but it isn't nearly as useful in close range where most people STILL can beat the heavy by running around him.

IE: The only use for it is with long range/indirect fire. Actually sending a kritzkrieged person into combat is asking for them to get killed.

Wait, so what exactly is the difference between a standard medi gun and the kritzkrieg?
(Besides the fact that all the shots are critical hits)

 

[The Wooster]

Kritzkrieg for defence is a useful strategy, but only if you are ubering soldiers, demoes, or, in some cases, heavies.

Kritzkrieg soldier: You just have him pop and rocket, but they kill anybody with less than ~150 HP just on splash damage. Great for stopping cart runs.

Kritzkrieg demo: Have you SEEN what throwing multiple crit stickies across a field of enemies, a chokepoint, or on the cart can do?

Kritzkrieg heavy: This one is iffy. It makes the heavy have a lot more range, because he's hitting great damage with his few hits, but it isn't nearly as useful in close range where most people STILL can beat the heavy by running around him.

IE: The only use for it is with long range/indirect fire. Actually sending a kritzkrieged person into combat is asking for them to get killed.

Wait, so what exactly is the difference between a standard medi gun and the kritzkrieg?
(Besides the fact that all the shots are critical hits)

Medigun gives you an ubercharge which makes you invulnerable Kritzkrieg just gives you straight criticals.

 

[PlaylistOne]

Kritzkrieg for defence is a useful strategy, but only if you are ubering soldiers, demoes, or, in some cases, heavies.

Kritzkrieg soldier: You just have him pop and rocket, but they kill anybody with less than ~150 HP just on splash damage. Great for stopping cart runs.

Kritzkrieg demo: Have you SEEN what throwing multiple crit stickies across a field of enemies, a chokepoint, or on the cart can do?

Kritzkrieg heavy: This one is iffy. It makes the heavy have a lot more range, because he's hitting great damage with his few hits, but it isn't nearly as useful in close range where most people STILL can beat the heavy by running around him.

IE: The only use for it is with long range/indirect fire. Actually sending a kritzkrieged person into combat is asking for them to get killed.

Wait, so what exactly is the difference between a standard medi gun and the kritzkrieg?
(Besides the fact that all the shots are critical hits)

Medigun gives you an ubercharge which makes you invulnerable Kritzkrieg just gives you straight criticals.

Oh, ok.
then i still dont understand what the new needle gun does either...
Sorry, i wont be playing the PC version of TF2 until i get my new pc...

 

[The Wooster]

The new needlegun gives the medic some health for each hit but can't do criticals.

 

[PlaylistOne]

Oh, ok.
Like I get so many criticals with the standard needle gun anyway.
Cant wait to play using the updates.
It will either be when i get my new pc or when they come out on 360.

More ideas for weapon upgrades:
The soldiers shotty should be replaced with an assault rifle. Sure it hase more range and is more accurate, but it does less damage.
The demomans grenade launcher explodes on impact instead of having a fuse, essentially turning it into a rocket launcher with an arc.

Good ideas?????

 

[Eyclonus]

I hope Valve is putting the next update through heavy balancing, with the initial releases the weapons were way off fair.
I do agree with ReepNeep though, the Flaregun is probably the best of all the updates, but it still has enough drawbacks to not break the game.
One thing that may put people off is the amount of time it takes to download the packs, individually its not long, but I got my copy a few weeks after the pyro and it took a while on the Modal internet speed for Australia.

 

[Fenixius]

The TF2 updates to date have been brilliant. By the time they've patched every class, released every video and added more maps (they seem to add more and more each update!), TF2 will easily have been worth $60Au+ by itself, nevermind the rest of the Orange Box.

Some people, however, appear to dismiss some weapons instantly. This confuses me, as I've found every single weapon offered to be of use.

Blutsauger: Medics aren't supposed to be shootey. The Blutsauger lets you survive long enough that backup can arrive and annihilate whatever cornered/separated you from your team.

Kritzkrieg: Down a long hallway/coridoor/canyon, a Heavy with one of these will annihilate everything. I've captured points with a half dozen people on them, as a Heavy with Kritzkrieg backup. It's insane. That, and it charges quicker, so it's more relevant more often. A standard Uber beats sentries/heavies/snipers/whatever's got you pinned, but a Kritzkrieg will beat all sort of other situations. Especially enemy Soldiers and Pyroes and Demomen.

Ubersaw: Everyone loves this because it saves one hell of a lot of time. Which is fair enough. I know someone who plays an assassin-style medic just to knife people with this thing. And it looks awesome.

Flaregun: Range for Pyro, especially against snipers. Not a lot else to say... except that once you hit someone with it, that's it. You can't viably focus on one target, since the flames don't stack and the flare itself does a pittance.

Backburner: Annihilation itself, given that it's wielded by a skilled and stealthy Pyro. It's like having a Kritzkrieg, but just for you, and it's active for the first 10 seconds of every encounter, if you pick them right.

Axtinguisher: 50% damage to non-burning, but 300% of normal damage (ie: 600% damage) to burning opponents. This is very commonly an instagib, especially when combined with a Flaregun. That, and the original Axe didn't have much going for it.

Given what I just said for each weapon, though... they're all situationally dependant. Which means that if you take them to the wrong fight, you're asking for pain. Kritzkrieg in setup is not usually ideal, since the enemy will have Sentries and/or standard Ubers. Flaregun does nothing underwater or against other Pyroes. Ubersaw is 20% slower, etc. All of them have advantages and drawbacks. I can only hope they'll give me a reason to ditch my Minigun as a Heavy. I love that thing so much.

Speaking of which, the Heavy update to be released next Tuesday will have three new maps, one of which is the fanmade cp_steel [http://steamgames.com/tf2/heavy/cp_steel.htm]. I've heard good things, but not played that map myself. There's going to be a new Payload map (ie: Goldrush style), and I'm fairly sure I heard there was going to be another new gametype with multiple sections on the map (as in Dustbowl-/Goldrush-style multiple sections). Though they've unveiled only cp_steel at the time of writing, they will have more unveils every day, so check http://steamgames.com/tf2/heavy/ for cool stuff.

 

[JakubK666]

Ehhh...if only there was some kind of an "Escapist Server" that we could all play on?

/suggestion...that everybody and their dog has suggested already.Pls, host it!

As for Update, it's time to take a week break from TF2.Six heavies per team can really spoil the game.It means less Pyros,which means more Spies and Snipers,which once again breaks the class balance.3-5 days should be enough to restore the status quo.

The only map I'm looking forward to is the 5-arenas-gametype map because I've played Steel already and the last one is still a PL we know and love.Just it's open-landscape variant.

 

[Logan Westbrook]

Ehhh...if only there was some kind of an "Escapist Server" that we could all play on?

/suggestion...that everybody and their dog has suggested already.Pls, host it!

I'm not speaking officially here, but last time I checked, the Escapist wasn't your server-*****. Please be quiet about it.

 

[JakubK666]

Ehhh...if only there was some kind of an "Escapist Server" that we could all play on?

/suggestion...that everybody and their dog has suggested already.Pls, host it!

I'm not speaking officially here, but last time I checked, the Escapist wasn't your server-*****. Please be quiet about it.

Why so rude?

It was just a suggestion, since according to Escapist's Steam Community Page we already have one but it doesn't seem to be running.

 

[TheKbob]

I like the new updates, yet I'm very behind because where I had my PC this summer had Wireless-B and it was lagtastic... unplayable.

So now I'm just starting on the medic stuff and with heavies coming out... I think I'll get my medic achievements very quickly ^___^

I won't grind them, that seems like cheating and makes it no fun.

 

[Aries_Split]

I'm not speaking officially here, but last time I checked, the Escapist wasn't your server-*****. Please be quiet about it.

Owned.

 

[earlyberd]

I think most people underestimate the medic weapons way too much.

The Blutsauger is only useful in desperate situations, and if the enemy is stupid and likes to charge at you in straight lines. Of course that was the case with the original syringe gun, the difference is that the Blutsauger will keep you alive a bit longer whilst hindering your chances of making a kill. Seeing that I only pull out the primary weapon as a last resort, the bloodsucking is a lot more useful.

The Kritzkrieg is reserved for smart medics only, of which I have seen none so far in this thread. Apparently none of you are aware that you can activate a Kritzkrieg charge on a player that already has a normal Übercharge, giving them both invicibility and 100% critical hits for ten seconds. Seriously, if you haven't ever paired up with another medic to recreate the ownage that is a heavy with a double Übercharge, you are a fail medic. Players can also be charged by the Kritzkrieg while holding enemy intelligence, allowing them to wreak some serious havoc while running back to base.

The Übersaw is one of those weapons where you'd have to be stupid to not use it. It's a great spy checking weapon, as your Übercharge will increase on a successful hit on a spy, and works wonders for anyone else that is stupid enough to try and bum rush the medic first. Often times I stop healing my heavy in mid battle just to go slice up some spies and scouts that think they're cleverly flanking us, and return to my heavy with a full Übercharge. Honestly if the slower ROF is screwing you over, then I don't know why you even bother to pull out a melee weapon.

 

[TerribleTerryTate]

The updates thusfar for me have been very enjoyable. Considering how cheap this game is to purchase itself through Steam I wasn't expecting anything other than the vanilla, standard game. Valve, for me has managed to maintain balance, as each unlocked weapon has both advantages and disadvantages.

The flare gun, for example, is great for ranged play, but isn't viable for killing people. It's more of an irratation, or inconvenience for the opposing team. However, a sniper annoying you? Fire the flare gun off, and calmly walk on through.

The Backburner, is excellent - but obviously only from behind. I loved the option on the original Flamethrower, with the blowback option. Returning Rockets back into Soldier's faces was extremely satisfying. With the BB you lose this, but you gain possibilities of killing enemies quicker...aslong as you're sneaky.

The updates are also going to include new maps and game types, along with the Heavy updates. More fun, and more options for TF2? Yes please. However, I guess it's impossible to please everyone, and I'm sure once the Heavy updates are out there will be whinning that the new weapons are unbalanced/useless.

 

[ShirleyPeanut]

There cool from what ive seen, aint played them as i play on 360.

I think i heard something about them porting with the 'still alive' portal game thing, makes sense really,

i would like to see some scout upgrades. I could see him having the ability to 'call out' things like what you can do on shadowrun.